lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Yes... And the persistent money issues started decades ago, originating in the latter half of the 1980s.
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A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...
- Thread starter WDW1974
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Daveeeeed
Well-Known Member
They were on the right track until that happened. Europe hotel attendance is down across the board -- it had a massive impact on DLP.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
They were on a good course, but the big problems had not yet been solved. There was still the massive debt and the fee structure.
Daveeeeed
Well-Known Member
Disney owns now over 85% of DLP. Of course, it started decades ago, but that is not the point @ParentsOf4 was getting at. Disney is now planning on investing about 2B in fixing debt and upgrading the park etc. They probably will fix the fees -- I'm not worried about those two things.
Part of the reason why it has not become a destination like WDW is its lack of cultural things like Duckberg (something that neighboring Germany loves), and because there is really only 1 and a quarter parks, so it is not really worth going every year, or every other year like WDW if you are not in or near Paris.
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ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
The money problems that have always been there still don't explain why DLP attendance has never met expectations. Attendance at DLP's castle park has lagged far behind the castle parks in Anaheim, Orlando, and Tokyo. DLP would be highly profitable if it could match those numbers.
Stop blaming DLP's money issues for all of DLP's problems. Europeans simply haven't embraced DLP the way the Americans and Japanese have.
VJ
Well-Known Member
I love The Bootstrappers! Well, I'm a Pirates superfan so... maybe that's to be expected. But they're still great.
Daveeeeed
Well-Known Member
I can tell you why.
- Magic Kingdom was not as ambitious when it started out, so it could survive with lower attendance numbers and was added to when it needed it, and to keep people coming back. This really isn't that big of an issue, but it could explain why it has had such a hard problem.
- Name: People weren't really in love with the name Euro Disneyland, and its current title while better is not necessarily better. Lots of Europeans aren't really fans of the French. Even though it is part of the E.U. it is far more separated than the American States.
- Lack of cultural things. Ex. Germany loves Donald Duck almost like Japan loves Stitch. Embrace it. There's no reason why there's not a Duckberg/Toontown. Also, Germany has many themeparks that have decent theming, so they find it a better value than traveling to get to Paris for pretty much 1 park. WDS was basically a waste of money, and lack of additions and updates to the DLP Park has made it difficult. To compare, WDS is far worse than Hollywood Studios -- the only thing it has are rides and wait times are bloated because there is nothing else to do in the park: LITERALLY as the theming is utter trash (besides the Ratatouille Mini-land of course which you obviously know that I love). Thankfully, Disney realizes the problems and are fixing them.
- Many people have annual passes in Paris, so attendance numbers from France are not spectacular.
- Location... something that cannot ever be fixed. Climate preventing people from going in the Winter makes Summer crazy crowded. They wanted a centralized location, but...
- Europeans think a 4-hour drive is a long time while Americans think it's not, so again the culture differentiation between Europe and The U.S. made things complicated. This is why Tokyo succeeds far better because of culture etc.
- Doing Walt Disney Studios on the cheap was also a terrible idea. Even today it is still by far the worst Disney Themepark on the planet, so until they spend (it needs at least 2B) a ton of money on it it will never attract the guests they want, and has never been able to make the necessary cash, so it essentially added pure debt.
- The resort was also overbuilt, and had far too much hotel capacity for 1 park (especially that such an epic city was RIGHT NEXT DOOR).
- Lots of other reasons, but those are the most prominent.
Bottom line is that DLP has some of the best things about any Disney Park in the world. From Pirates to The Epic Frontierland there. I really hope it succeeds, and it seems Disney is finally doing the steps necessary to fix them. Don't get me wrong... I love Disneyland Paris -- I mean look at my profile Pic! But it's difficult to recover from mistakes the company made initially without having the funds to fix them like Disney California Adventure had.
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VJ
Well-Known Member
I laughed.
asianway
Well-Known Member
Theyre getting:
A new day parade
2 new stage shows
An updated castle projection/fireworks show
New VIP character overlays with 2 meet n' greet areas
Am I missing something?
Yes, operation Sparkle was great, but is that going to get people there? Refurbs that were long overdue?
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
It's about labor relations because that is defined by the employer-employee relationship. You misunderstand the implications of the Miklin case re: an employee's right to free speech on social media.
Rohde's comment:
Rohde is not disparaging Disney quality. He said 'oh, look an animated figure that worked perfectly well' at an international museum. He is not making false claims about the Yeti (and he did not specifically mention it). His statement "I'm just saying..." could be interpreted a number of ways. (Rohde could have followed his statement by saying something like - 'it would be nice to see that at Animal Kingdom'. It's not disparagement.)
But, please, do keep accusing me of lacking reading comprehension. I find it amusing.
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SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
Off the top of my head - Orlando hotel occupancy the week after the shooting was down 19% compared to the prior year.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
#TearDownWDSP
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
The 2016 report addressed this, too - (their emphasis):
The Resort is subject to significant seasonal and daily fluctuations in attendance and spending per guest
as well as to the effects of general economic, climatic and geopolitical conditions. While the Group has
implemented and continues to implement measures designed to mitigate these risks by reducing fluctuations
in attendance and spending per guest, the Group cannot be certain that such measures will be sufficient
and will prevent significant declines in profitability.
The tourism and leisure business is competitive, which could limit the Group’s ability to increase prices
or to attract guests.
as well as to the effects of general economic, climatic and geopolitical conditions. While the Group has
implemented and continues to implement measures designed to mitigate these risks by reducing fluctuations
in attendance and spending per guest, the Group cannot be certain that such measures will be sufficient
and will prevent significant declines in profitability.
The tourism and leisure business is competitive, which could limit the Group’s ability to increase prices
or to attract guests.
I feel like there is some sort of lesson here....about Iger cleaning up Eisner's 'folly'. Also - TWDC can't simply pursue their standard strategy of increasing prices to ensure profitability.
UpAllNight
Well-Known Member
One of the biggest Disney Audiences in Europe are the Brits, who typically want to be guaranteed the sun on a holiday that Paris doesn't guarantee. France is the most visited tourist destination in Europe however, so the problems run a lot deeper than the weather.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
flynnibus
Premium Member
Categorical not. Key to the Milken case is that the whole topic centers around the Sick Leave/Call-out Policy of the employer.. and the ongoing disputes around that.
(from the original NLRB judgement)
The employer didn't contest these actions were related to the labor dispute, but that the actions went so far as to not be protected. That's what the case was about.
None of this has anything to do with an employee generally criticizing/mocking its employer in social media. Which is exactly what Rhode was doing.
The NLRA is about unioning and protecting activities around that. This case has nothing to do with general employee freedom to criticize their employer and is specifically related to reprisals against employees who were engaged in activities related to organized labor.
Which is why.. even after this finding.. you don't find the NLRB boasting about any protections outside of union activity and 'concerted activity'
https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/employee-rights
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
The time to do that was 2005, before they started building actual crowd pleasers like ToT, Rat, Crush and Mickey & the Magician. The resort doesn't need fewer attractions to entice visitors in the short term, nor the negative press that would come from a wholesale demolition of the park.
A better option would be to remove everything beyond ToT and Stitch Live, including the whole Backlot Tour and park section (keeping RnRC's infrastructre) and expanding out from there. Lots of room for a complete Hollywood blvd, multiple rides, shops, eateries etc. A map to give some an idea:
green = keep
red = demo / expand
purple = backstage area to be relocated or worked around
For those unfamiliar with the park's layout, at the top left corner of the pic you can see where Catastrophe Canyon is located on the tram tour.
The "easy" fix approach remains this:
- Marvel replacing The Backlot
- Star Wars in the wooded area west of Place de Remy
- Hollywood Blvd starting where the Tram Tour station is
- Redoing the carpet spinner and animation building as Pixar attractions, making that side of the park all Pixar related (as it mostly is now with Rat, Toy Story, Cars & Crush)
- Adding TSMM to Playland
- Running a refurbed Fantallusion along the parade route at night during summer and Christmas, saving the Star Wars fireworks for Season of the Force
Is it the best option? No, but it's realistic with the current people in charge of TWDC and would make the park a full day experience with an overall more pleasing appearence.
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BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Good point, but I'd also point to Tokyo, which also did very little and the 30th was absolutely explosive. Granted, it's Tokyo. But that attendance spike that caught them completely off guard has been fairly sustained.
As was DL's 60th, albeit easily the most new offerings of the 3.
Don't underestimate the big anniversary's...
SorcererMC
Well-Known Member
The communications in the Miklin case were made on bulletin boards and social media by both the employer and employees; there are limits as to the extent that an employer can restrict those communications. One implication of this case is that the NLRB may challenge an employer’s policies and practices even where workers are not unionized - an expansion of their authority. No boasting necessary.
Reference your first quote on the two criteria.
1. Is this connected to a labor dispute? Unknown. (hence my prior use of the word - hypothetically)
2. Was the communication so disloyal, reckless, or maliciously untrue? No. a) Praising a museum's animatronic is not in and of itself a slight to Disney quality. b) He is not making false claims. The Yeti does not 'work perfectly well'. c) disloyal? No specific reference to Disney in Rohde's comment.
ETA: Honestly I don't think anyone else here cares about this, can we move on?
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the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but that would cost $2 Billion with WDI budgets and you're still stuck with that park's bad bones. It would be more practical to aggressively invest in Parc Disneyland to make up the loss of capacity and THEN build a new second gate. Parc Disneyland hasn't received a net expansion since the mid 90s.The DL/DCA heroin monkey relationship is well known, but a similar circumstance exists in Paris too and that has also held back the resort as much the other factors mentioned by Lazyboy.The time to do that was 2005, before they started building actual crowd pleasers like ToT, Rat, Crush and Mickey & the Magician. The resort doesn't need fewer attractions to entice visitors in the short term, nor the negative press that would come from a wholesale demolition of the park.
A better option would be to remove everything beyond ToT and Stitch Live, including the whole Backlot Tour and park section (keeping RnRC's infrastructre) and expanding out from there. Lots of room for a complete Hollywood blvd, multiple rides, shops, eateries etc. A map to give some an idea:
green = keep
red = demo / expand
purple = backstage area to be relocated or worked around
For those unfamiliar with the park's layout, at the top left corner of the pic you can see where Catastrophe Canyon is located on the tram tour.
The "easy" fix approach remains this:
- Marvel replacing The Backlot
- Star Wars in the wooded area west of Place de Remy
- Hollywood Blvd starting where the Tram Tour station is
- Redoing the carpet spinner and animation building as Pixar attractions, making that side of the park all Pixar related (as it mostly is now with Rat, Toy Story, Cars & Crush)
- Adding TSMM to Playland
- Running a refurbed Fantallusion along the parade route at night during summer and Christmas, saving the Star Wars fireworks for Season of the Force
Is it the best option? No, but it's realistic with the current people in charge of TWDC and would make the park a full day experience with an overall more pleasing appearence.