A Spirited Valentine ...

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rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
According to CalOSHA - "Through the course of the investigation, it appeared that the Disneyland Resort did not have a clear instruction on what a Ride Operator is expected to do in the event an unusual noise is detected"

Of course that was updated immediately following the BTMRR incident.

I think you are covering a bit for people more than they deserved.
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Every SOP that I've seen was clear on E-Stops including the few that I've had input on. Before and after BTMRR's problem. Even on an attraction in the mid 90's that had no business ever needing an E-stop (HISTA) I wouldn't have passed someone who wasn't clear on that procedure. It was drilled into everyone's head everywhere except Indy during a fire alarm. Despite what everyone thinks about Disney shipping out lifers during the 90's, those people could always be counted on to ignore update training, refuse to work with younger operators since the younger ones went by the book and generally ignored safety at large. Far more lifers received safeties than the newbies, but shop stewards ensured there were never any consequences.

As far as the rest, yes you're correct that maintenance screwed up. No doubt. Thier failure was noticed but ignored by ops. As far as less experienced mechanics being brought on during that time, I can only assume that landlock severed the "old guards" here and there. People signed off on completed work from others before, and that continues to this day. That policy didn't result in safety concerns and doesn't today. But as far as tagging, that a legalistic gotcha from DOSH. What idiot doesn't comprehend that GREEN = good to go, and any other color means no. The guy was a fool. No doubt the "old guards" knew less about tagging though (and still could care less) before and after the accident. Still though, dumb procedures on both ends contributed but it wasn't some neglectful act or a fear of management.

Screamin chucks wheels with regularity and its up to ops to pull a rattly train before it occurs. That's the procedure right now so I guess the potential is there to have a Thunder Mtn style accident right now. Then again that's the case at many rides/parks/chains. Hear something funny (regardless if who did what or what the noise is or where its coming from) stop everything, Estop and call maintenance. Management isn't going to fire anyone over following those rules. If that threat was ever felt or made, that manager really would have been disciplined and/or fired and that's coming from first hand experience during that time.
 
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FigmentJedi

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Cover for a tie-in comic to Mission Breakout coming in May. 40 page one-shot, though considering the number of ads you get in Big Two comics, actual page count would probably be a little less.
tumblr_olr535moQT1sa3t1go2_1280.jpg


Tiki Room mini wraps up tomorrow and I haven't heard a word on what's next for Disney Kingdoms...
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
rushtest4echo said:
Every SOP that I've seen was clear on E-Stops including the few that I've had input on.
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Well clearly those involved that day and weeks around it weren't so clear... and Disney changed immediately to correct it as cited in the report. If it was so clear, there was no need for an update... but there was.


rushtest4echo said:
As far as the rest, yes you're correct that maintenance screwed up. No doubt. Thier failure was noticed but ignored by ops.
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Ok this statement says as we need to know about you....the maintenance guy doesn't install the parts correctly, the supervisors sign off on it, but don't actually inspect it well enough to find the error, the staff frequently does this, and one day the error directly leads to a guest dying... and you still point to the ride operators as the cause.

No - the ride operators failed to stop a fatal mistake made by the maintenance staff and oversight.

rushtest4echo said:
People signed off on completed work from others before, and that continues to this day. That policy didn't result in safety concerns and doesn't today. But as far as tagging, that a legalistic gotcha from DOSH. What idiot doesn't comprehend that GREEN = good to go, and any other color means no. The guy was a fool. No doubt the "old guards" knew less about tagging though (and still could care less) before and after the accident. Still though, dumb procedures on both ends contributed but it wasn't some neglectful act or a fear of management.
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Forging reports whose purpose is safety oversight is neglect. Such behavior is a culture issue... one that was created in the management of the time of run it till it falls apart and that drove cost optimization over working systems. Tagging is more than green = go

You can't put this problem on the ride ops when systematic failures created the scenario in the first place and multiple levels of checks failed because people weren't doing their job.
 
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flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
SorcererMC said:
Yes, and thanks to @flynnibus for quoting from them and giving the full picture.
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For those newer to the topics... the calosha report on the btmrr accident in question.
https://www.mpimages.net/dlr/compre...derAccident/thundermountainaccidentreport.pdf

Everyone agrees where the fault came from... but rush

"Our own analysis found that the accident was caused by incorrectly performed maintenance tasks required by Disneyland policy and procedures that resulted in a mechanical failure," park spokesperson Leslie Goodman

And for a period appropriate piece on the change in Disneyland maintenance including how management consultants reviewed and proposed how to revamp the system that had been working, to one that elevated cost focused theories. you can read this piece - http://articles.latimes.com/2003/nov/09/local/me-disney9 It's been covered in multiple first hand accounts in books as well.

This has been covered by multiple angles over the last 15yrs as people have perspective on what the pressler and Harris years did to the park.
 
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rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
You forgot to quote the part where it says "overall, the procedures for maintenance of the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad attraction, if followed, were generally more than adequate, although three areas, as outline in the Conclusion section below, items 4, 7, and 8 can be improved.

This is an agency that has gutted DLR's ability to properly address real safety issues with over-reach over the past several decades. Yet, they made recommendations to strengthen procedures, not to add to them or go with another course of action. None of the procedures (if followed) were deemed wrong. A guy screwed up, and today's MAINTENANCE procedures would not have prevented the exact same thing. It wasn't a lack of maintenance, and the same thing could and has happened many times since. The ride chucked a wheel, as many do. This one happened to do so in a catastrophic fashion and something horrible occurred. 99% of the time they simply order a new wheel/axle/whatever and move on. Someone would be fired for not following proper procedure. Which is what would happen today. The procedures that led to this haven't been addressed other than telling operators that "e-stop the ride if anything looks fishy" isn't just lip service. Tagging is the same, signing off on others work (like all industries) is common and still in place.

I just verified the in place procedure moments ago...
 
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WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Guys and gals, I am intending to return here when I can and respond to some of the things others have asked me and just maybe drop a bit more news (likely not on gondolas though), but it really would be helpful if there weren't 10 pages devoted to DL's issues that killed people many years ago. That info is out and ancient and while tragic has absolutely nothing that I can see to do with anything going on there or WDW or even IOA today.

If there is news, that's one thing. I've tried to make these threads catch-alls for news involving Disney and Universal that at least in some small way have something to do with the Orlando operations if at all possible. That means talk all you want about current developments, but not debating Star Wars or Avatar box office and ancient history in Anaheim ... that stuff really keeps me away from here at times because it becomes overwhelming and I know for a fact it has pushed other great members to the sidelines. Why not talk about Shanghai or RoL or Marvel in the US parks or ... something that is current and of import?

I won't be around here until the weekend and I am afraid what I will find ...
 
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wdrive

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
Guys and gals, I am intending to return here when I can and respond to some of the things others have asked me and just maybe drop a bit more news (likely not on gondolas though), but it really would be helpful if there weren't 10 pages devoted to DL's issues that killed people many years ago. That info is out and ancient and while tragic has absolutely nothing that I can see to do with anything going on there or WDW or even IOA today.

If there is news, that's one thing. I've tried to make these threads catch-alls for news involving Disney and Universal that at least in some small way have something to do with the Orlando operations if at all possible. That means talk all you want about current developments, but not debating Star Wars or Avatar box office and ancient history in Anaheim ... that stuff really keeps me away from here at times because it becomes overwhelming and I know for a fact it has pushed other great members to the sidelines. Why not talk about Shanghai or RoL or Marvel in the US parks or ... something that is current and of import?

I won't be around here until the weekend and I am afraid what I will find ...
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I'm normally one of your biggest fans but I don't think you should be dictating what people should be talking about. There isn't a list of banned subjects to talk about.
 
Nemo14

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
ssaamm said:
I'm normally one of your biggest fans but I don't think you should be dictating what people should be talking about. There isn't a list of banned subjects to talk about.
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He's just saying that this thread (created by him for the purpose of discussing specific things) should stay on topic so we don't have to wade through countless unrelated posts. People are certainly free to start threads to discuss other stuff.
 

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