A Spirited Valentine ...

[rushtest4echo]

It was the Columbia and I'm pretty sure it's well documented that was due to poor upkeep

Sorry for erroneously making reference to the wrong boat. But poor upkeep? How so? Where's the documentation on that? The documentation that I've seen (public statements agree with internal findings) is that the cleat utilized to "dock" the Columbia broke free, which struck and killed one person and injured several others. The cleat did not suffer from a lack of maintenance. What occurred is that the boat's momentum/mass simply ripped the cleat out of its mount- as would happen on any large boat if it were moored while still traveling at a decent speed. The procedure that was violated there was that a manager (who was not trained to operate the ride- a practice that still continues)- was permitted to secure the mooring

"only if the [boat] is making an approach slow enough to be able to stop before the bowline is taut,"

This procedure was ignored because the manager in question had no idea how to properly dock the boat. But it's a sound procedure. A boat of that size would rip the moorings right out if it someone tried to rope it off while it was still at speed. And that's exactly what happened. How does this have anything to do with maintenance?

Internally, operators of the Columbia complained about the docking procedure before this incident. They said that similar "hard stops" had occurred before. If their concerns had been listened to, they probably would have figured out a way to prevent the cleat from being able to stop the the boat (as it wouldn't be able to do so anyway).The system worked fine for 40 years prior. But this wasn't a maintenance issue- it was poor policy combined with a lack of "idiot proofing". Disney has a lack of idiot proofing all over the place, mind you, but that's again not a maintenance issue. They've idiot proofed the boats by installing a limiter which won't allow the boat to approach the dock at speed any more. They've also installed a (non seaworthy) "breakaway" cleat which will relieve tension on the line before enough force builds up to cause such an accident again. The cleat will simply fall off now because it's essentially for show. Still though, maintenance?

 

[rushtest4echo]

Being that lack of parts on hand leads to extensive downtime, would not ride operators be implicitly compelled to operate ride longer than they would if replacement parts were readily available?

Deferred maintenance by omission?

I see this in my business where things do not run properly and are not inherently unsafe at the time, but are still allowed to run in the hopes the replacement part arrives before failure.

Maintenance orders and replaces parts according to MTBF and a wear/tear schedule based around years/decades of part replacement logs. They have it down to a science of sorts. Of course, that fails to account for random failures or other factors- which is why Disney had a hell of a time with downtimes after adopting this policy. But it's been in place for two decades now, and WDW's policies are similar.

I've never known a front line cast member who would purposely operate a ride they knew to be dangerous because they didn't want the downtime- they're usually overjoyed to have a bit of downtime. They would/should be fired if they tried to do that anyway. I'm not talking about a procedure that could be changed to allow for 'safer' operation or some policy that needs re-thinking. I'm talking about a CM saying "man this ride has had a lot of downtime lately, I'm just going to run it because we don't need any more downtime". Now I HAVE seen ops managers attempt to circumvent CM's and keep a ride open when maintenance was supposed to be called. Which is entirely foolhardy as maintenance is charged for the downtime and operations doesn't get flack anyway. But in those cases, when the offending ops manager was found out, they were re-trained, re-assigned, or fired based on the severity of their misjudgments (I've personally dealt with such things once upon a time).

Either way, I understand your concern and I agree that it's not best practice to not have replacement parts on hand. However, it's not an unsafe practice. Again, if you think maintenance has EVER said "well we need a part to keep the ride safe but lets just keep it open anyway", you'd be fired before you finished uttering that thought out loud. Don't always take what Al Lutz had to say during the late 90's as gospel. He's no different than a certain poster here who talks with mid-level people, then spins a few cast member stories into some vast conspiracy that goes all the way to the top and would destroy the entire Disney empire as we know if it were allowed to continue. I'm sure he has sources, and I'm sure Al had sources- even well placed ones. But it's not journalism- it's tabloid garbage. They don't verify information, they don't do diligence, they just throw what they hear against a wall and sometimes it sticks. The problem with this sort of 'reporting' is usually that they're just hilariously wrong (as shown recently). But when they're making accusations of poor maintenance or doing unethical/illegal things with the same sources feeding them the (wrong) information- I'm surprised Disney doesn't take action against those sorts of bogus things. Maybe they have...

Al's reporting on Pressler/Harris/Outmet/Emmer bordered on criminal. Stating facts like their preference for merchandise sales or their lack of visibility in the parks is one thing, but his accusations and innuendo were beyond ridiculous. Truly the National Enquirer of theme park information. Sadly, the OP now carries such a torch.

There's a reason more respected people (Lee, Martin, others) will commonly say "well something's happening, but I need more information before I offer my thoughts/opinions or spill the beans" instead of ginning up thirsty fans who need their scoop of weekly tabloid trash.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Disney Research division presents new wireless power transfer method. Like some kinda Plus Ultra junk here.

 

[asianway]

Sorry for erroneously making reference to the wrong boat. But poor upkeep? How so? Where's the documentation on that? The documentation that I've seen (public statements agree with internal findings) is that the cleat utilized to "dock" the Columbia broke free, which struck and killed one person and injured several others. The cleat did not suffer from a lack of maintenance. What occurred is that the boat's momentum/mass simply ripped the cleat out of its mount- as would happen on any large boat if it were moored while still traveling at a decent speed. The procedure that was violated there was that a manager (who was not trained to operate the ride- a practice that still continues)- was permitted to secure the mooring

"only if the [boat] is making an approach slow enough to be able to stop before the bowline is taut,"

This procedure was ignored because the manager in question had no idea how to properly dock the boat. But it's a sound procedure. A boat of that size would rip the moorings right out if it someone tried to rope it off while it was still at speed. And that's exactly what happened. How does this have anything to do with maintenance?

Internally, operators of the Columbia complained about the docking procedure before this incident. They said that similar "hard stops" had occurred before. If their concerns had been listened to, they probably would have figured out a way to prevent the cleat from being able to stop the the boat (as it wouldn't be able to do so anyway).The system worked fine for 40 years prior. But this wasn't a maintenance issue- it was poor policy combined with a lack of "idiot proofing". Disney has a lack of idiot proofing all over the place, mind you, but that's again not a maintenance issue. They've idiot proofed the boats by installing a limiter which won't allow the boat to approach the dock at speed any more. They've also installed a (non seaworthy) "breakaway" cleat which will relieve tension on the line before enough force builds up to cause such an accident again. The cleat will simply fall off now because it's essentially for show. Still though, maintenance?

When you don't even know which ship killed the guy and then state alternative facts to support it...

Another day on the magic boards

 

[rushtest4echo]

When you don't even know which ship killed the guy and then state alternative facts to support it...

Another day on the magic boards

I'm pulling directly from documents relating to the internal and external investigations. And referring to the wrong boat was a simple error, we all know which boat's associated with the cleat accident.

 

[drew81]

Maintenance orders and replaces parts according to MTBF and a wear/tear schedule based around years/decades of part replacement logs. They have it down to a science of sorts. Of course, that fails to account for random failures or other factors- which is why Disney had a hell of a time with downtimes after adopting this policy. But it's been in place for two decades now, and WDW's policies are similar.

I've never known a front line cast member who would purposely operate a ride they knew to be dangerous because they didn't want the downtime- they're usually overjoyed to have a bit of downtime. They would/should be fired if they tried to do that anyway. I'm not talking about a procedure that could be changed to allow for 'safer' operation or some policy that needs re-thinking. I'm talking about a CM saying "man this ride has had a lot of downtime lately, I'm just going to run it because we don't need any more downtime". Now I HAVE seen ops managers attempt to circumvent CM's and keep a ride open when maintenance was supposed to be called. Which is entirely foolhardy as maintenance is charged for the downtime and operations doesn't get flack anyway. But in those cases, when the offending ops manager was found out, they were re-trained, re-assigned, or fired based on the severity of their misjudgments (I've personally dealt with such things once upon a time).

Either way, I understand your concern and I agree that it's not best practice to not have replacement parts on hand. However, it's not an unsafe practice. Again, if you think maintenance has EVER said "well we need a part to keep the ride safe but lets just keep it open anyway", you'd be fired before you finished uttering that thought out loud. Don't always take what Al Lutz had to say during the late 90's as gospel. He's no different than a certain poster here who talks with mid-level people, then spins a few cast member stories into some vast conspiracy that goes all the way to the top and would destroy the entire Disney empire as we know if it were allowed to continue. I'm sure he has sources, and I'm sure Al had sources- even well placed ones. But it's not journalism- it's tabloid garbage. They don't verify information, they don't do diligence, they just throw what they hear against a wall and sometimes it sticks. The problem with this sort of 'reporting' is usually that they're just hilariously wrong (as shown recently). But when they're making accusations of poor maintenance or doing unethical/illegal things with the same sources feeding them the (wrong) information- I'm surprised Disney doesn't take action against those sorts of bogus things. Maybe they have...

Al's reporting on Pressler/Harris/Outmet/Emmer bordered on criminal. Stating facts like their preference for merchandise sales or their lack of visibility in the parks is one thing, but his accusations and innuendo were beyond ridiculous. Truly the National Enquirer of theme park information. Sadly, the OP now carries such a torch.

There's a reason more respected people (Lee, Martin, others) will commonly say "well something's happening, but I need more information before I offer my thoughts/opinions or spill the beans" instead of ginning up thirsty fans who need their scoop of weekly tabloid trash.

Al had sources some would only dream of. As far as bordering on criminal? The DL team reaped what they sowed. Try to spin the deaths any way you want it.


Can we please get back on topic? Like how Shanghai is now using Disney characters to properly encourage SDL guests on where to go potty?

 

[MisterPenguin]

When you don't even know which ship killed the guy and then state alternative facts to support it...

Another day on the magic boards

As opposed to all the documentation and support that backs up the other narrative?

 

[Mike S]

Disney Research division presents new wireless power transfer method. Like some kinda Plus Ultra junk here.

There's a great big beautiful tomorrow...

 

[roodlesnouter]

In my opinion, we found Uni's Portofino really poor. We've been to the real one. World Showcase is 1000x better.

Poor, really? Why so?

 

[The_Jobu]

This thread is pulling at the reigns to become the new catch-all thread. It's quite amusing to follow.

I'd also like to see the potty posters show up at WDW, just for giggles. Or they can change it to encourage drunks to vomit in a restroom.

 

[jakeman]

When you don't even know which ship killed the guy and then state alternative facts to support it...

Another day on the magic boards

As opposed to all the documentation and support that backs up the other narrative?

Wouldn't the OSHA investigations be public record?

 

[rushtest4echo]

Wouldn't the OSHA investigations be public record?

Bingo... which is why it's so truly baffling to even need to have this conversation.


Not tightening a bolt has nothing to do with "saving money". Not reporting the noise/Estoping the ride has nothing to do with "saving money". Not being trained on how to use mooring equipment has nothing to do with "saving money". And none of them have to do with some sort of purposeful decline in maintenance standards.

If anyone thinks that ride operators aren't/shouldn't entrusted to ensure the safe operation of rides when they're operating publicly then they should run away from the theme park industry ASAP. Things are missed or done incorrectly, procedures ensure that they don't put anyone at risk. Procedures were not followed.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Please keep in mind that many experienced, high-priced cast members were replaced with cheaper, inexperienced labor beginning in the 1990s. Meanwhile, frontline management was under a great deal of pressure from senior management to reduce operating costs while simultaneously keeping attractions open.

Combined, it created an environment where safety was less important than it had been previously.

My experience is that in the majority of safety incidents, it was senior management that created the unsafe work environment by the priorities they set, and how those priorities impacted frontline employees.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Poor, really? Why so?

It seemed to lack "life" in its recreation- instead settling for mundane and unimaginative. It felt soulless. In some ways, its intangible, actually.

 

[DDLand]

Please keep in mind that many experienced, high-priced cast members were replaced with cheaper, inexperienced labor beginning in the 1990s. Meanwhile, frontline management was under a great deal of pressure from senior management to reduce operating costs while simultaneously keeping attractions open.

Combined, it created an environment where safety was less important than it had been previously.

My experience is that in the majority of safety incidents, it was senior management that created the unsafe work environment by the priorities they set, and how those priorities impacted frontline employees.

Excellent reminder!

What's clear is during the late 1990s and early 2000s Disneyland's employee culture was corrupted. The cast felt demoralized and quality of upkeep went down the toilets. There were systematic issues with show quality and instead of aspiring for excellence, they went for good enough.

It was only a matter of time before that lack of care with nearly everything created an environment for disaster.

That period in Disneyland's run resulted in two gruesome deaths that had nothing to do with guest behavior. A rarity in Disneyland and Walt Disney World's history. The correlation raises eyebrows. Things have gotten better and I do feel comfortable riding Space Mountain.

Frankly the policies above (not getting new parts especially) sound suitable for a shopping mall, not a theme park.

At least I can rest assured that as I pass by nonfunctional effects, broken audio animatronics, and light leakage I won't die at Walt Disney World... The Disney Difference!

Edit: I'll also add this is corporate's fault. Not overworked rank and file.

 

[wdwmagic]

Guys, I know these threads cover a variety of topics. But please, feel free to start new threads on specific topics if you have anything to share. Lumping everything together in one thread makes things difficult to follow. Thanks.

 

[HauntedPirate]

IIRC, Al Lutz sang the praises of Messrs. Ouimet and Emmer while burning Pressler and Harris at the stake whenever possible. He may have gone as far as to say Ouimet saved DL.

And whatever happened to Al? Health problems, I heard?

 

[brb1006]

 

[rushtest4echo]

Nice closeup of the plants for a bit there, but you still ain't seen nothin yet! I'm surprised more media from the area hasn't found its way onto the internets... everything looks spectacular.

Glad to see Joe out there doing what he loves. The guy has such a passion for authenticity and environmental storytelling. Can't wait to see them reveal more stuff in the coming weeks/months!

 

[rioriz]

Get your first one the ground look at "Mountains on a stick" in that video