A Spirited Valentine ...

[MisterPenguin]

So it's not a mediocre movie and most of the public loves it?

The point you missed was it doesn't matter whether the movie was horrible or average because the land looks great and most of us are excited for it and it's pointless for us to argue the merits of it anymore. We can't change anything so let's just drop the movie argument and be excited for the land.

So, again, you get to express your opinion of the movie (it's mediocre right?) and tell everyone else to shut up about it.

You still don't see the irony of what you're doing?

 

[ford91exploder]

I am glad to hear the optimism on Pandora. I am equally hopeful that DPL buyout will result in the infusion of new capital there. Per hong Kong, how can they not get size envy with that behemoth(ugly?) castle nearby.

The only problem with DLP is it will suck capital out of WDW that 2 billion which is going to be spent will be 2 billion NOT SPENT at WDW just like always

 

[Funmeister]

Was that a real thing? For the first time in my life I have a strong desire to work at WDW. Maybe just part time...on Thursdays

It was prior to Aramark moving in....>sigh<

 

[DznyRktekt]

Spirited threads become diluted so quickly.. People branch off in so many directions.

 

[DDLand]

Difference in cost between those two parks? One was moving into a brand new market, the other simply piggybacked off of the successes and failures of the other.

Shanghai spent. They created a high quality experience with captivating attractions. They have high attendance.

Simple.

Difference in local population (not counting mainlanders, who aren't welcome at HKDL) is also massive.

No, I don't at all actually. Local attendance has continuously grown whereas mainlander attendance has tanked. Same thing has affected Ocean Park despite them dumping hundreds of millions of investment into the park to compete with HKDL.

You won't find me arguing there aren't real issues with Hong Kong as a destination, but Hong Kong Disneyland pulls its own weight attracting tourists to the city:
"Our on-going analysis of the Hong Kong Tourism Board's survey with inbound visitors revealed that around 50% of HKDL's visitors cited visiting HKDL as their main purpose of coming to Hong Kong."

The more compelling the product, the more it draws.

Also attendance numbers are being supported by an AP program that is getting more and more buy in, but are much lower margin. Selling to tourists is crucial to HKDL.

Mid 80's EPCOT is what made Universal smell blood in Orlando's water. Ancillary business is a problem (including food and merch inside the park- which was massively overbuilt just like the hotels), but if you remove the debt and licensing burden from DLP, they've still lost money almost every year since opening.

The only time they've managed a profit was before the majority of their loans kicked in and when Disney zeroed out royalties- and even that didn't keep the park profitable.

Epcot is also part of the reason Orlando was so attractive to build in. It's well documented that WDW was transformed by EPCOT.

When the time came to transform Disneyland, they decided to draw from the same source ideas. Because it worked the first time.

Things at DLP were steadily improving into the late 1990s as they broke the 12 Million mark. It probably would have continued growth from there, but WDS and then maintenance issues compressed upward momentum.

Spirited threads become diluted so quickly.. People branch off in so many directions.

Haha You're right. I'll control myself from now on

Sorry everyone!

 

[VJ]

It sorta served as a filler until Soundsational debuted

Yes, that's what I meant by buffer.

 

[TiggerDad]

Disneyland Paris, the theme park, was not overbuilt. The resorts were, and they are what caused a financial drain on the resort as a whole. HKDL was criminally underbuilt, so much so that it still hasn't recovered its reputation. I'm honestly not sure that the expansion - if it's all approved - will solve it either. HK locals are acutely aware of how grandiose and expensive SDL was and how HKDL looks in comparison. This expansion is a good start, but honestly, it needs must-see-cannot-miss material. The only attraction that fits the bill is the Avengers ride, and it is 5 years away.

I'm glad HKDL is getting a unique castle (I despise castle cloning in all forms) but I wish the new design was something bordering cohesive. The top looks like a bad Photoshop job and has no sense of style or architectural flow. It's just odd.

Anyway, DLP's problems had nothing to do with building a beautiful park with a solid attraction roster, everything to do with six ginormous and overpriced hotels outside of one of the world's most popular tourism cities.

DLP also has consistently made it challenging for Americans to book vacations there, which would have helped fill up those hotels. Maybe that will change if Disney acquires full control.

 

[hopemax]

Want to respond to a few posts now, but a question and don't want to derail the thread on page three, but just am curious and you can respond without going on a tangent.

How many of you guys/gals buy those "Art of" coffee table books? I ask because I was in a T.J. Maxx recently and saw they had them for Big Hero 6, The Force Awakens and Rogue One ... all marked from $40 down to $20. I do have a few friends who obsessive compulsively buy all the "Art of" for Pixar films, but I had no idea that WDFA, Lucas and, yes, Marvel all are doing them.

Haven't read all of this thread, but the Art of Books started with WDFA, in the mid-90s. I have Lion King, Hunchback and Mulan from that era. More modern films I pick them up when I find them at a discount or used. So I also have Finding Nemo, Brother Bear, Princess and the Frog, Frozen and my husband bought me Moana for a Christmas present.

Otherwise, welcome back. I'm now to the point that even though WDW is free, I will probably only be visiting the parks 2 days out of 10 for my upcoming trip. My Dad got an AP to Sea World so he could see the holiday stuff and since he can get me a ticket for 50% off well be doing that during their food event, plus visiting Universal with our APs. Otherwise, my husband and I are going to London in about a month, and planning a trip for the three of us (including my Dad) for hopefully Tokyo Disney (going to depend on the airfare), otherwise Paris, if airfare remains dirt cheap in the fall. Plus, free admission works in Paris. If the world hasn't descended into war by then. Life is too short to overpay for the privilege to get so riled up about so much.

But I still periodically visit looking for your threads, and was happy to see one.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I'm glad Spirit is back! He may take some flack for what and how he writes, but his insight is always appreciated. All you have to do is look at the number of people who read one of his threads to realize it.

 

[SJN1279]

Disney is having an unprecedented run of box office success, and park expansion. The doom and gloom of spirit says that it will eventually end, and of course he is right. But he is just looking for the I told you so.............it will happen, but you have to respect the run.

PS I loved the Pirates trailer, and it got a lot of good press. It was the 1st or 2nd most successful SuperBowl trailer.....why would people get fired?

 

[Nubs70]

Don't you just love happy endings?

Yes and often cost less than a 1 Day Value Ticket to MK.

 

[NearTheEars]

Disney is having an unprecedented run of box office success, and park expansion. The doom and gloom of spirit says that it will eventually end, and of course he is right. But he is just looking for the I told you so.............it will happen, but you have to respect the run.

PS I loved the Pirates trailer, and it got a lot of good press. It was the 1st or 2nd most successful SuperBowl trailer.....why would people get fired?

Yeah, the music choice made me stop and actually watch it. I think it was great.

 

[BrianLo]

Disney is having an unprecedented run of box office success, and park expansion. The doom and gloom of spirit says that it will eventually end, and of course he is right. But he is just looking for the I told you so.............it will happen, but you have to respect the run.

PS I loved the Pirates trailer, and it got a lot of good press. It was the 1st or 2nd most successful SuperBowl trailer.....why would people get fired?

Actually, I was going to mention that @WDW1974 seems unusually cheery and optimistic. Must have been a good sabbatical.

It's no secret that Pirates is a vestige of the 2000 studio strategy that's lost its place in their current run. Cars 3 will just continue to reinvigorate the merch, so hardly even matters its numbers in the grand scheme. I fully anticipate Pirates is going to underperform.

The lineup otherwise though is solid. 2018 fantastic (and likely record breaking).

 

[WDW1974]

If I were Comcast, I'd wait to see how it goes for Disney. I'm sure the Party will insist on the same deal they have with Disney. And then there's that other little thing that can complicate the deal. One China! It's Good! :wink: :wink:

All I will say, before my PML pals start whining to Mom about political posts, is that the prior administration believed a good relationship with China was in the best interests of everyone, while the current one seems intent on painting them as en enemy and there are parties in the inner circle who (in what truly can only be described as insanity) would like to engage them militarily.

That 'tude is simply going to destroy the relationships of Disney and Universal with the Chinese, whether or not they have 'partial ownership' of resorts there or business agreements, if the rhetoric turns to action. I am 100% sure that is why Iger wanted in on Trump's advisory group of business leaders.

 

[WDW1974]

This is a no-brainer and I can't believe they don't target them, with special promotions and such?!
For quick reference, the breakdown of their visitors: France 49%; UK 17%; Spain 9%; Belgium 6%; Netherlands 5%; Germany 3% ; Italy 2%; Everywhere else 9%.

Are you basically saying that DLP can't compete?

No, I'm just saying the European market isn't the American or Japanese markets. Disney has to set itself apart and not simply for having Mickey and being more expensive than everyone else. They also need fresh product there, desperately.

Sorry if my question is redundant, but I'm curious what your perspective is on TWDC actually being able to turn it around, or if they will keep sinking $$$$ into it over the next several years and it will drag on P&R?

They will turn it around (again, unless Trump starts a world war or there is more terrorism there). They are really making the resort over, one attraction (or restroom complex) at a time. The place is still a diamond in the rough (I think I told that to George K once when he was working over there!) But it simply needs new product. People do respond to it. Things like the Rat ride and Disney Dreams have shown that.

I also can't wait for your take on Shanghai Disneyland.

Me too. And I absolutely will be writing up my thoughts post-visit!

8th annual....celebration....

I know, Disney doesn't change strategy once it starts, does it?

 

[monothingie]

All I will say, before my PML pals start whining to Mom about political posts, is that the prior administration believed a good relationship with China was in the best interests of everyone, while the current one seems intent on painting them as en enemy and there are parties in the inner circle who (in what truly can only be described as insanity) would like to engage them militarily.

That 'tude is simply going to destroy the relationships of Disney and Universal with the Chinese, whether or not they have 'partial ownership' of resorts there or business agreements, if the rhetoric turns to action. I am 100% sure that is why Iger wanted in on Trump's advisory group of business leaders.

@WDW1974 we don't like to whine we just like wine. I'd even buy you a drink.

Plus being a PM is a great way to support @wdwmagic in running his fantastic site. $50 or ~£39 is a small price to pay for a fantastic source of news, information, and great discussion (or whining...). Shameless plug over.

 

[WDW1974]

--- DVC Expansion in the swamps: First, we all know it is coming to CBR (or the property as it will be a separate resort) because Tom Amity said so ... like two years after I said so here, but who's counting? There are plans right now for DVC from the Contemporary to Coronado to EPCOT-adjacent. They are simply going to continue to turn WDW into The Timeshare Kingdom of the World, something I started calling it over a decade ago.

At age 26, DVC is showing no signs of slowing down. Just a decade ago, the only DVC presence near the MK was the beautifully integrated WLV. Bob Iger and his minions have added the cancer, what it truly is, to every MK resort and then returned to the WL and have taken the wilderness away. It is a quick money grab and a way to cover for the fact they simply can't sustain the price points they now command. The problem is Pop Century is a $49-69 a night property and most people pay closer to $150 a night to stay. Deluxe visitors dropped too the mods and mod regulars to the values with many people opting for off-site or no WDW at all. Now ... y'all do realize that Disney would be making money if it charged $99 a night for a standard room at the Poly, right?

 

[WDW1974]

As interesting as I find all the info in this thread, I'd be more interested to hear some substance into the rumblings of Epcots redo or the 50th Anniversary Plans, or what if anything may get announced at Epcots anniversary D23 event, or the main event in summer.

Too early. Too much in flux. If that crazy bloke @marni1971 wants to chime in, he's more than welcome. But I don't have enough confidence in anything I've heard (and I have heard nothing new in the last few months, although I haven't pushed anyone either). I really think they don't have a plan yet. I know all about those GotG plans because I was looking at them not too long ago. I also know what the price tag was and that it was dismissed. To build the kind of things that you really want to experience, Disney would have to decide very soon and, yes, be ready to announce like this summer. Some of the voices in my head are very strongly telling me to not get my hopes up. I still believe the SWE will be the centerpiece of the 50th, even if it opens by 12/31/19 at 11:59:59 p.m. (I want to be wrong about this, btw!)

 

[Sonconato]

The only problem with DLP is it will suck capital out of WDW that 2 billion which is going to be spent will be 2 billion NOT SPENT at WDW just like always

As I waited on the resort monorail that crawled along for 45 minutes due to what I assume was the automation system and the express monorail wasn't operating at all, I came home to read this thread and these were my thoughts exactly.

 

[WDW1974]

The Party is not the Borg. There are still local power bases. Universal Studios is being built in Beijing instead of Shanghai because Beijing wooed Universal with a better deal.

True. And didn't UNI actually start negotiations (or talks) with them prior to Disney's get serious talks? (Not the 'I've been part of this since the 1990s' drivel that Iger likes to spew about SDL.) I could have sworn that UNI had talks with the locals in Shanghai as well ...