A Spirited Valentine ...

Nj4mwc

Well-Known Member
Thoughts since I last posted:

Been catching up with email (got 5000k unread emails down to 330), and reading Seeking Alpha articles.

The Street in the past did not want spending in the parks. Now they do. (Deteriorating Fundamentals in the Media Division will do that). That makes a big difference.

Speaking of Deteriorating Fundamentals, one article I read mentioned ESPN isn't the only problem. It's the Disney Channel as well. The kiddies aren't watching as much, which means they aren't getting the BRAND indoctrination they used to - which can spill over into P&R and Films.

Is it a lock that everything in D23 will get delivered? The lack of Hyperion Wharf as designed AND ANNOUNCED says no. But it won't shock me if they do what they say they do this time.

The parks need content AND capacity. I would describe Content as not merely something to do, it's something to drive attendance (especially if major attractions finally get the extended downtime they need). The new theatre in the MK is no question in the column of 'content'. Something that sounds like an expensive build on backstage land that is going to keep guests possibly up to an hour away from opportunities to buy plush isn't getting built (IMO) to fill out a day. It's meant to drive visits. I'd say they view 'capacity' as stores & restaurants. IMO again, a reason TGMR is going away for a 6 minute MM ride is for guests to spend more time in the desired 'capacity' - buying food, drink, and plush.

Mickey Mouse did not have a definitive fixed personality throughout his history. The original B&W Mickey was different then the Living Color (and toned down to please parents) Mickey. But if you watch the Mickey Mouse cartoons on the Walt Disney Treasures sets, all of them (with the exception of Runaway Brain) feel like there's a connection. They collectively represent Classic Mickey.

The new Mickey cartoons are decent for what they are - but doesn't feel like it's the Character That It Was All Started By. It feels like new IP. Even less of a reason to put a ride based on that version such a prominent place in the parks. Off to the side (like say, where Animation is) would be much more appropriate.

Speaking of New Mickey - replacing Clubhouse with Roadster Racers for the little kiddies sounds like a blatant toy push that would make the producers/director of Batman & Robin blush.

Back to D23. I don't expect the China film to be an upgrade. My guess is that they'll cut the length and have a good portion of what's left filled by someone mugging for the camera (like what happened to Canada). The Minnie Van sounds OK for those who might like to use it, assuming that they have sufficient vehicles for demand. (The best fastpass in the swamps continues to be having access to your own vehicle). The gondolas should help get some traffic off the roads, but I don't see them (IMO) justifying what it costs to stay at Caribbean or AOA even at current prices.

Not mentioned at D23 (I think) but I'm curious about who is going to bankroll the Brazil pavilion - considering that 3 major companies down there (Petrobras, Vale, Brasil Foods) have, shall we say, some issues. Maybe Embraer? (If you've flown Jet Blue you've almost certainly flown on one).

The new Mickey cartoons are great, Mickey has a little bit of his mischivious qualities he had in years past instead of the kid friendly clubhouse Mickey. My kids love the new Mickey. And they have to update the character for every generation so of course us older folks will find fault but they have us hooked already. I'm just glad I like this new Mickey
 

No Name

Well-Known Member
Ah, I miss a hot flaming spirited battle ... back in the days of Staggs and Rasulo and MyMagic+ and Shanghai fiascos. And then discussion about cheesesteaks to rest up and heal before another hot flaming spirited battle. This place has been a bit different lately... not neccesarily better, just different.

Wonder what the oddly waifish man of anemic personality is up to.

What is "TDO" again? I've always assumed it was "The Disney Organization." Am I close?

Hey, at least you got the letter D correct. ;)
 
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ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
The best way to think of WDW in 2017 is it's your child that continues to bring home C's and D's on their report card when you know they can get straight A's (as evidenced by FoP and HEA).

WDW is a victim of its own success. The BRAND of WDW is so much stronger than the reality of the value of the current WDW you get in return. It's all about "dat legacy" and relying on memberberries of its audience. That's enough pop culture references for me for today.
Although I agree with your sentiment, I feel your grade is too harsh.

Having been going to WDW as an adult since before the opening of Epcot in 1982 (that dates me!), I certainly feel that WDW has seen better days. It's still good today, just not as good as it once was. Within leadership, the famed "Disney Difference" has been replaced by an attitude of "good enough". Current Disney executives simply don't have the same passion for WDW that the Old Guard did.

As I described in another thread, here's my historical grade for WDW, updated for Pandora:

WDW Historical Grade.jpg


IMO, today's WDW is a solid 'B', perhaps even a 'B+'.
 
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EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
I think Epcot sucks. In my honest opinion, it is the worst park at WDW (still better than DCA). I only go there because of SSE and AA. DHS has few attractions, but they are all great. DHS could take over DAK if they refresh the shows, add something in the HHA during the day, and maybe another attraction or two to round things out. DAK, in my opinion, is the best theme park in the USA right now. The level of theming, the scale and of course the big badass Es. The food is great (better than Epcot). MK is good. The new additions will be awesome. I think once Epcot is redone by 2021, WDW will be the best it has ever been.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
The new Mickey cartoons are great, Mickey has a little bit of his mischivious qualities he had in years past instead of the kid friendly clubhouse Mickey. My kids love the new Mickey. And they have to update the character for every generation so of course us older folks will find fault but they have us hooked already. I'm just glad I like this new Mickey

Completely agree. I love the new Mickey cartoons. They are actually funny, they seem like they are a bit more adult but still appealing to children. Full renaissance of the character in those shorts.
 

UpAllNight

Well-Known Member
I think Epcot sucks. In my honest opinion, it is the worst park at WDW (still better than DCA). I only go there because of SSE and AA. DHS has few attractions, but they are all great. DHS could take over DAK if they refresh the shows, add something in the HHA during the day, and maybe another attraction or two to round things out. DAK, in my opinion, is the best theme park in the USA right now. The level of theming, the scale and of course the big badass Es. The food is great (better than Epcot). MK is good. The new additions will be awesome. I think once Epcot is redone by 2021, WDW will be the best it has ever been.

Epcot is what you make of it. It changed from our least favourite park in Florida in 2015 (every park incl Busch, Seaworld, Uni) to probably our second favourite in 2017. That was largely down to how we toured and correcting some mistakes on how we went about things. For e.g. in 2015 we walked around world showcase relatively early, saw no entertainment, didn't delve deeper into the pavilions, taste different foods and drinks. We kind of went in this year not looking at Epcot as a theme park but found an appreciation of it that made us go back several times, when we had initially had reservations about if we could actually fill 1 whole day and not be bored.

There's no denying there's major updates needed in places though. I've campaigned for years for Brazil pavilion and Mission Space upgrades, so in my head someone important has read my complaining and got the ball rolling! And if you're listening...Nemo is trash, Circle of Life is embarrassing and it's a damnright disgrace there's still entire pavilions empty...so get a move on ;)
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Very, very profoundly sad to hear about the passing of true Disney Legend, Marty Sklar at 83.

While many simply knew him from his books or interviews and some from his appearances at fan events, the man was fascinating one on one (and the tales he told were often different from what went out at WDC sanctioned events). I didn't agree with some of his opinions later in his years (like Walt would have loved DCA 1.0 and things of that ilk), but losing him will leave a huge void that can never be replaced.

He was a treasure trove of knowledge about his old boss and about how Disney did things from the 1950s right up to today. I know I will miss him terribly. And I think those who heard him speak at D23 a few weeks ago should consider themselves very, very lucky.

My heart goes out to Leah, his niece and the entire family.
I thought Sklar was quoted as saying he thought DCA 1.0 was better as a parking lot.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Let me state, that while I don't know Spirit - I know of him and so do those that are kind enough to talk to me about Parks projects. What Spirit has been saying all along about SWL is very much the truth. The plan all along was to move forward with Disneyland as quickly as possible and if Orlando wanted to tag along, they could; but, they weren't going to slow down the process anymore. Hence the death of One Disney.

While the project was on paper, the goal was (and still is) to push Disneyland to open possibly at soon as holiday season 2018 for soft openings and have the official opening in early 2019. Orlando was to come online before 2020's summer season. I was told initially 6-12 months after Anaheim. Now, does that 2020 early 2020 date change if they hit the early part of the window? Probably, as it would fall in place before 2019's year end.

As with any project, the time variable can be altered by modifying one of the other pillars of project planning - resources (e.g. money for man hours) or quality. As to which path they will take to hit the "open before the next D23" timeframe... wanna place your bets?

For bonus wagering fun - who wants to take some parlay action on which is more likely: "Anaheim soft opens some part of SWL in time for holiday 2018 or all of SWL isn't online in Orlando before next D23"?

Considering contractors bonuses are in place for meeting deadlines in Anaheim and we've already seen them working after nightfall... I think the easy money is on the Left Coast horse.

Of course... Disney could just change the next D23 date to make the whole discussion moot.

Finally someone grounded in reality and not high on pixie dust and promises. This is the most realistic analysis ive seen so far on SWL in Orlando
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
No, they were a year late. That was from 2011 and the plan was announced to open in 2016.
To be fair, they said things like "usually take 5 years". And "we plan on breaking ground in 2013". So a year off based on an admittedly loose timeframe given at the very beginning of the process seems kinda normal.

It did take a long time. We will be saying the same thing about Nintendo when it arrives for the same reasons.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
And neither do I. I engage him. I've complimented him. I'm not going to put him on ignore. I took your post as implying posters were attacking him, which is why I put it in quotes. I'm not going to ignore him but I'm not going to ignore his falsities and not say anything either. I'm not the only one who gets tired of the false narrative and hyperbole though. Did you miss where I've said he has solid points at times but many times it get lost when he goes off the deep end. He's certainly entitled to feel how he feels and post as such. I actually don't mind him so that's why I speak up to him hoping he'll cut it out, I want him to stop the ridiculous hyperbole and saying things that aren't accurate. He knows full well SW:GE will open in 2019, but he keeps saying upwards to 2023.

My personal bet is that it opens Dec 2020-May 2021 fully open Dec 2021
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Although I agree with your sentiment, I feel your grade is too harsh.

Having been going to WDW as an adult since before the opening of Epcot in 1982 (that dates me!), I certainly feel that WDW has seen better days. It's still good today, just not as good as it once was. Within leadership, the famed "Disney Difference" has been replaced by an attitude of "good enough". Current Disney executives simply don't have the same passion for WDW that the Old Guard did.

As I described in another thread, here's my historical grade for WDW, updated for Pandora:

View attachment 219276

IMO, today's WDW is a solid 'B', perhaps even a 'B+'.

I've been visiting at least as long as you have my comment is as follows

Damn does Yale grade 'on the curve' like Harvard does .

If we use the 80-90's as the A grade. Disney now is C-D+. With DHS getting a solid F

The only park i think that deserves a B is Animal Kingdom these days
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Man, considering dance parties are a trashy annoying waste of time these SeaWorld parkgoers are certainly enjoying themselves...;)

View attachment 219315

Depends on how good they are, Mulch Sweat and Shears could keep people dancing for hours.

A parade float with a amplified boombox with a programmed playlist just does not get it done.

Once again the iron law of economics rules you get what you pay for.

After all what is a club other than a dance party with a fixed address...
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
People love dance parties. It's just when Disney does it, it's like grandma rapping along to the 17 year old closeted church organist thowin' down a heavy groove on the Wurlitzer.

This is true.

Honestly it was a lot of fun. And Ignite, the new night laser/fireworks/water cannon spectacular just left me speechless. I'd suggest fellow locals to go check it out.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
To be fair, they said things like "usually take 5 years". And "we plan on breaking ground in 2013". So a year off based on an admittedly loose timeframe given at the very beginning of the process seems kinda normal.

It did take a long time. We will be saying the same thing about Nintendo when it arrives for the same reasons.
I believe it was Rasulo who first put the 2016 date on it at another point.
 

MotherOfBirds

Well-Known Member
Wow, that was quick. Just seven months after completely re-doing their wedding pricing structure, Disney undoes it again and jacks up the prices a second time. The prices were a little high before they went with the seasonal pricing structure, and now that they've dumped it, it's even more expensive. I could get married at the Four Seasons with more people for less money now. Glad to know this cancer has grown a pulsating tumor on yet another aspect of WDW.
 

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