A Spirited Valentine ...

[njDizFan]

Say what you want about Ford, but he is always respectful and does not attack other posters even though he takes a lot of flack. Granted he absolutely is on the outer edge of the doom and gloom squad ( and certainly sometimes even over the edge) but I find his musings much more thoughtful then some posters on the other side of the equation...eh hum JT hmmm.

 

[jakeman]

Say what you want about Ford, but he is always respectful and does not attack other posters even though he takes a lot of flack. Granted he absolutely is on the outer edge of the doom and gloom squad ( and certainly sometimes even over the edge) but I find his musings much more thoughtful then some posters on the other side of the equation...eh hum JT hmmm.

I don't know...I find blatant dishonesty pretty disrespectful.

 

[Kman101]

I don't know...I find blatant dishonesty pretty disrespectful.

Yep. But let's wax on about poor Ford and people attacking him, which I guess if you ask the poster to tell the truth that's considered "attacking" someone? Let's get real.

I want him to stop spreading a false narrative and posting ridiculous hyperbole.

And the problem is he posts the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. We know where he stands and how he feels.

 

[Kman101]

Say what you want about Ford, but he is always respectful and does not attack other posters even though he takes a lot of flack. Granted he absolutely is on the outer edge of the doom and gloom squad ( and certainly sometimes even over the edge) but I find his musings much more thoughtful then some posters on the other side of the equation...eh hum JT hmmm.

See my post above. We don't need to play 'poor Ford' here. We just want him to stop the falsities and the ridiculous hyperbole. If you think that's "attacking" someone ... it's not. And I think he can speak for himself. I don't mind some of his posts, he sometimes does have a solid point mixed in and I've told him as such. I'm glad you find it amusing. A lot of us don't and we're free to express that.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

My first thought when they announced all the streetmosphere, droids, etc. was that they wouldn't last.

And we get it, things run 'in the swamps' are terrible (and they are, we all know they don't like to spend money, we all know they drag their feet. You always say the same thing, but I appreciate your insight into the land, you don't need to always paint the same awful picture of how bad it is). It just seems to be repeated ad nauseum. Disneyland is wonderful and amazing. The swamps suck. We know.

Except what they won't tell you is that DL is just as bad. I saw many broken AAs especially on Splash Mountain, chipped paint etc. To be fair, I'm cherry picking but you have to cherry pick to see things like that at WDW too. People who say DL has better maintenance and CMs are looking through rose colored glasses. I went to DL a couple weeks ago, and it was awesome, but I think people exaggerate

 

[Viget]

My first thought when they announced all the streetmosphere, droids, etc. was that they wouldn't last.

And we get it, things run 'in the swamps' are terrible (and they are, we all know they don't like to spend money, we all know they drag their feet. You always say the same thing, but I appreciate your insight into the land, you don't need to always paint the same awful picture of how bad it is). It just seems to be repeated ad nauseum. Disneyland is wonderful and amazing. The swamps suck. We know.

Well, I hope that the printing press that will be the SW hotel will offset some of the operational cost of the land. I think TDO isn't that stupid to realize that if they're charging $1K per night or whatever, they better be providing a totally immersive experience (especially because I think the majority of the hotel demographic will be hard core SW fans that are not necessarily interested in the Disney Parks, i.e. new business). And that includes droids, aliens, etc in SW Land. So cutting those experiences probably wouldn't go over so well for the hotel guests. Prob that's the carrot Burbank dangled to get TDO to agree to the SW land in the first place.

(OFF-TOPIC)
And while I'm on a soapbox: while DLR is amazing and Walt's park and has some better rides etc... their operations? Not so great compared to Orlando. Especially when crowded. We went over the Xmas-New Year's week last year, and it was a total s- show. People cutting in lines left and right, teenagers and young adults riding ECVs to to try to get whatever advantage they could, complete organizational chaos and lack of clear direction near major bottlenecks (like the Adventureland/New Orleans Square junction). It was absurd. My favorite was a cast member near It's a Small World after the fireworks trying to corral people into the forming line by flat out saying, "better keep up or people will cut in front of you". Total disorganization.

WDW is MUCH better situated to deal with crowd control, and is much more organized and on top of their game. I mean don't get me wrong, I will go back to DLR, but definitely not during a crowded period.(/OFF-TOPIC)

 

[Kman101]

Except what they won't tell you is that DL is just as bad. I saw many broken AAs especially on Splash Mountain, chipped paint etc. To be fair, I'm cherry picking but you have to cherry pick to see things like that at WDW too. People who say DL has better maintenance and CMs are looking through rose colored glasses. I went to DL a couple weeks ago, and it was awesome, but I think people exaggerate

Yep.

I don't mind people saying how bad things are but sometimes it gets a bit much. We have enough negativity with everything else going on in the world it gets to be a bit of a downer to always have the same "everything's awful" spiel. Most of us are under no illusion on how things are run, I don't think it always needs to be repeated.

 

[Kman101]

Well, I hope that the printing press that will be the SW hotel will offset some of the operational cost of the land. I think TDO isn't that stupid to realize that if they're charging $1K per night or whatever, they better be providing a totally immersive experience (especially because I think the majority of the hotel demographic will be hard core SW fans that are not necessarily interested in the Disney Parks, i.e. new business). And that includes droids, aliens, etc in SW Land. So cutting those experiences probably wouldn't go over so well for the hotel guests. Prob that's the carrot Burbank dangled to get TDO to agree to the SW land in the first place.

(OFF-TOPIC)
And while I'm on a soapbox: while DLR is amazing and Walt's park and has some better rides etc... their operations? Not so great compared to Orlando. Especially when crowded. We went over the Xmas-New Year's week last year, and it was a total s- show. People cutting in lines left and right, teenagers and young adults riding ECVs to to try to get whatever advantage they could, complete organizational chaos and lack of clear direction near major bottlenecks (like the Adventureland/New Orleans Square junction). It was absurd. My favorite was a cast member near It's a Small World after the fireworks trying to corral people into the forming line by flat out saying, "better keep up or people will cut in front of you". Total disorganization.

WDW is MUCH better situated to deal with crowd control, and is much more organized and on top of their game. I mean don't get me wrong, I will go back to DLR, but definitely not during a crowded period.(/OFF-TOPIC)

Very well said but watch out the defenders will come out full force

DL is amazing. I loved the park. I even liked original flavor DCA for what it was and can't wait to get back, it's been FAR too long, but not everything is perfect. I know it's become the go-to fun thing to diss WDW and call it 'the swamps' and talk about how awful everything is and while I am a total realist, and am well aware of the faults, it just gets a bit tiring to constantly hear about.

 

[Goob]

CoughWDW1974cough. Is that who we're talking about? Because that the first person I think of.

 

[doctornick]

Except what they won't tell you is that DL is just as bad. I saw many broken AAs especially on Splash Mountain, chipped paint etc. To be fair, I'm cherry picking but you have to cherry pick to see things like that at WDW too. People who say DL has better maintenance and CMs are looking through rose colored glasses. I went to DL a couple weeks ago, and it was awesome, but I think people exaggerate

Yeah, I never understood the fawning over DLR compared to WDW. They seem pretty similar to me as a guest in terms of the stuff we see and interact with.

Heck, the guy running WDW right now was just in charge of DLR a few years ago. The current DLR president was previously at WDW. How differently could they be run, really?

 

[flynnibus]

@WDW1974 i did the wdfm on a visit last month. It was nice, but nothing to make a trip over. If you've read one or two of the biographies and some other Disney history books... there really isn't anything new there. The coolest thing was the optical printer and that they have one of the multi plane cameras that you can get real close to. The Disneyland exhibit is very neat looking and the hybrid model they have. But with most of the materials being facsimiles in the first half of the exhibit was disappointing.

The Picnic day out on the lawn of the presidio was nice tho

 

[twebber55]

Yeah, I never understood the fawning over DLR compared to WDW. They seem pretty similar to me as a guest in terms of the stuff we see and interact with.

Heck, the guy running WDW right now was just in charge of DLR a few years ago. The current DLR president was previously at WDW. How differently could they be run, really?

grass is greener mentality

 

[njDizFan]

See my post above. We don't need to play 'poor Ford' here. We just want him to stop the falsities and the ridiculous hyperbole. If you think that's "attacking" someone ... it's not. And I think he can speak for himself. I don't mind some of his posts, he sometimes does have a solid point mixed in and I've told him as such. I'm glad you find it amusing. A lot of us don't and we're free to express that.

I don't know why you put quotes around attacking? I never said anyone was attacking him and I am not defending him. And I am somewhat confused why you think I pity Ford for other people taking umbrage with his style. I just said he does not attack other posters. Please read my post again if you have any doubt. I suggest that you are so upset about his posts the ignore option is fantastic. I will continue to read his posts and appreciate everyone's opinion even if I think they are wrong. Which is where debate comes in, I do not live in an echo chamber.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

And we get it, things run 'in the swamps' are terrible (and they are, we all know they don't like to spend money, we all know they drag their feet. You always say the same thing, but I appreciate your insight into the land, you don't need to always paint the same awful picture of how bad it is). It just seems to be repeated ad nauseum. Disneyland is wonderful and amazing. The swamps suck. We know.

You know what else sucked for the longest time... Disneyland. Then people passionate about the park and the way it was run starting voicing their opinions, started discontinuing visits, and more or less rebelled and finally... things started to return to Disney Parks form in Anaheim. Are they perfect - not even close. Are they closer to what we should expect from Disney Parks legacy - most certainly.

Look, I've said this ad nauseam around this place - I LOVE WDW. I love it so much that I can't stand for they the place is run because it could and should be so much better. As guests of the resort, we are continuing to pay prices that exceed what Disney Parks dollars demand; but, we are continuing to get less and less in Disney Parks value in return.

Sharing opinion, both good and bad, is a healthy exercise. I've been complimentary on WDW in recent times for when they do something right and I've pointed out where they continue to fail (operationally mainly). I've been positive in my feedback on Frostrom (E-ticket quality crammed into a C-ticket space); River Journey (E-ticket quality crammed into a C-ticket space - hey, a trend); FoP (great E-ticket and the best simulator around... still a simulator though); and Happily Ever After (the best nighttime fireworks spectacular I've seen - I will get to see the newly projection mapped RDCT in a few weeks though, but I feel HEA will take the cake due to the spots, bursts, and music). See... not all negative.

Is the Great WDW 50th Anniversary Bailout Windfall of new attractions the beginning of a return to form for the resort or simply an attempt to right the ship after almost two decades of neglect?

The scary thing is... none of us know for sure. The lack of capital investment over the last generation was the symptom. TDO mindset is the problem. Killing One Disney simply inoculates DLR from catching the TDO flu. The truth is that unhooking TDO from Anaheim can allow even more miserly ways to entrench in Orlando.

I'm really curious if the coastal cross-training initiative has begun or is having any impact. Hopefully our Ghost Host with the most will enlighten us on this when he gets time.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Except what they won't tell you is that DL is just as bad. I saw many broken AAs especially on Splash Mountain, chipped paint etc. To be fair, I'm cherry picking but you have to cherry pick to see things like that at WDW too. People who say DL has better maintenance and CMs are looking through rose colored glasses. I went to DL a couple weeks ago, and it was awesome, but I think people exaggerate

The grass is always greener and all that. I will say that Disneyland is run much better from a operations perspective and they are not afraid to spend money. Actually they feel they have to spend money and constantly keep things fresh or the locals will flee.

I think a lot of WDW's "problems" past that are exaggerated.

 

[tirian]

Except what they won't tell you is that DL is just as bad. I saw many broken AAs especially on Splash Mountain, chipped paint etc. To be fair, I'm cherry picking but you have to cherry pick to see things like that at WDW too. People who say DL has better maintenance and CMs are looking through rose colored glasses. I went to DL a couple weeks ago, and it was awesome, but I think people exaggerate

Exactly.

 

[Kman101]

I don't know why you put quotes around attacking? I never said anyone was attacking him and I am not defending him. And I am somewhat confused why you think I pity Ford for other people taking umbrage with his style. I just said he does not attack other posters. Please read my post again if you have any doubt. I suggest that you are so upset about his posts the ignore option is fantastic. I will continue to read his posts and appreciate everyone's opinion even if I think they are wrong. Which is where debate comes in, I do not live in an echo chamber.

And neither do I. I engage him. I've complimented him. I'm not going to put him on ignore. I took your post as implying posters were attacking him, which is why I put it in quotes. I'm not going to ignore him but I'm not going to ignore his falsities and not say anything either. I'm not the only one who gets tired of the false narrative and hyperbole though. Did you miss where I've said he has solid points at times but many times it get lost when he goes off the deep end. He's certainly entitled to feel how he feels and post as such. I actually don't mind him so that's why I speak up to him hoping he'll cut it out, I want him to stop the ridiculous hyperbole and saying things that aren't accurate. He knows full well SW:GE will open in 2019, but he keeps saying upwards to 2023.

 

[Kman101]

You know what else sucked for the longest time... Disneyland. Then people passionate about the park and the way it was run starting voicing their opinions, started discontinuing visits, and more or less rebelled and finally... things started to return to Disney Parks form in Anaheim. Are they perfect - not even close. Are they closer to what we should expect from Disney Parks legacy - most certainly.

Look, I've said this ad nauseam around this place - I LOVE WDW. I love it so much that I can't stand for they the place is run because it could and should be so much better. As guests of the resort, we are continuing to pay prices that exceed what Disney Parks dollars demand; but, we are continuing to get less and less in Disney Parks value in return.

Sharing opinion, both good and bad, is a healthy exercise. I've been complimentary on WDW in recent times for when they do something right and I've pointed out where they continue to fail (operationally mainly). I've been positive in my feedback on Frostrom (E-ticket quality crammed into a C-ticket space); River Journey (E-ticket quality crammed into a C-ticket space - hey, a trend); FoP (great E-ticket and the best simulator around... still a simulator though); and Happily Ever After (the best nighttime fireworks spectacular I've seen - I will get to see the newly projection mapped RDCT in a few weeks though, but I feel HEA will take the cake due to the spots, bursts, and music). See... not all negative.

Is the Great WDW 50th Anniversary Bailout Windfall of new attractions the beginning of a return to form for the resort or simply an attempt to right the ship after almost two decades of neglect?

The scary thing is... none of us know for sure. The lack of capital investment over the last generation was the symptom. TDO mindset is the problem. Killing One Disney simply inoculates DLR from catching the TDO flu. The truth is that unhooking TDO from Anaheim can allow even more miserly ways to entrench in Orlando.

I'm really curious if the coastal cross-training initiative has begun or is having any impact. Hopefully our Ghost Host with the most will enlighten us on this when he gets time.

Sorry I know I came off harsh, I sometimes have that tendency and I apologize. I guess I'm a tad worked up today LOL.

I really don't see any of the cross-training doing much or it hasn't started yet. It seems TDO still has the same mindset it always did. Which sucks. I hate how they operate. I hate that they're forced into adding things. I hate that they don't spend the money to upgrade things that should be upgraded (like stage shows) and I hate that they find excuses to not spend money on things, like a night parade.

"Is the Great WDW 50th Anniversary Bailout Windfall of new attractions the beginning of a return to form for the resort or simply an attempt to right the ship after almost two decades of neglect?"

I try to be optimistic but I think it's an attempt to right the ship after almost two decades of neglect. I've often said they've begrudgingly realized they can't let things stagnate anymore. I'm sad to say I'm sure they'd love to do absolutely nothing. I wish it were a return to form.

I do think upkeep is better. It never got to the falling apart days like Disneyland did under Pressler (I wish Lutz's old articles were still available, they were for a time and showed the shocking neglect of Disneyland). I never saw it get as bad as some wanted to imply. But there was a long period of no investment and bare minimum upkeep but I still find it exaggerated at times.

You have been complimentary on the things they've gotten right. It's nice to see they are capable of doing good things. Sometimes it just gets lost in the bitterness some have towards the place. I'm all for sharing different opinions but it often seems like anytime there's a bit of positivity, reality hits again and they take two steps backwards. It's just frustrating. I know we all have our opinions on what we want to see them do, what they should be doing .... I just wish some had a bit more positive outlook on things and didn't always dread what's being done. Sure we can have different opinions but it'd be nice if we were all on the same page and happy about things LOL. I'm not saying it all has to be positive and happy all the time, I've done my share of complaining, but I've just started to look at things differently. I don't get mad because they're not doing what I want them to do. I judge something based on what they're doing and what the end result is. I don't love the placement of some new things but it just seems some are never going to be happy (and not saying you).

Phew. Sorry for the long post. I really appreciated your reply after I wasn't so nice lol. Sorry again :/

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Sorry I know I came off harsh, I sometimes have that tendency and I apologize. I guess I'm a tad worked up today LOL.

I really don't see any of the cross-training doing much or it hasn't started yet. It seems TDO still has the same mindset it always did. Which sucks. I hate how they operate. I hate that they're forced into adding things. I hate that they don't spend the money to upgrade things that should be upgraded (like stage shows) and I hate that they find excuses to not spend money on things, like a night parade.

"Is the Great WDW 50th Anniversary Bailout Windfall of new attractions the beginning of a return to form for the resort or simply an attempt to right the ship after almost two decades of neglect?"

I try to be optimistic but I think it's an attempt to right the ship after almost two decades of neglect. I've often said they've begrudgingly realized they can't let things stagnate anymore. I'm sad to say I'm sure they'd love to do absolutely nothing. I wish it were a return to form.

I do think upkeep is better. It never got to the falling apart days like Disneyland did under Pressler (I wish Lutz's old articles were still available, they were for a time and showed the shocking neglect of Disneyland). I never saw it get as bad as some wanted to imply. But there was a long period of no investment and bare minimum upkeep but I still find it exaggerated at times.

You have been complimentary on the things they've gotten right. It's nice to see they are capable of doing good things. Sometimes it just gets lost in the bitterness some have towards the place. I'm all for sharing different opinions but it often seems like anytime there's a bit of positivity, reality hits again and they take two steps backwards. It's just frustrating. I know we all have our opinions on what we want to see them do, what they should be doing .... I just wish some had a bit more positive outlook on things and didn't always dread what's being done. Sure we can have different opinions but it'd be nice if we were all on the same page and happy about things LOL. I'm not saying it all has to be positive and happy all the time, I've done my share of complaining, but I've just started to look at things differently. I don't get mad because they're not doing what I want them to do. I judge something based on what they're doing and what the end result is. I don't love the placement of some new things but it just seems some are never going to be happy (and not saying you).

Phew. Sorry for the long post. I really appreciated your reply after I wasn't so nice lol. Sorry again :/

No worries. I wasn't taking it personally.

The best way to think of WDW in 2017 is it's your child that continues to bring home C's and D's on their report card when you know they can get straight A's (as evidenced by FoP and HEA).

WDW is a victim of its own success. The BRAND of WDW is so much stronger than the reality of the value of the current WDW you get in return. It's all about "dat legacy" and relying on memberberries of its audience. That's enough pop culture references for me for today.

 

[Goob]

What is "TDO" again? I've always assumed it was "The Disney Organization." Am I close?