A Spirited Valentine ...

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
But long term, do you really want Netflix, a competitor, to have rights to those films in that exclusive capacity?
As far as I can tell these movies are also available for purchase through your cable provider or through Disney directly. Am I incorrect here?

Right now for example I can rent or buy Beauty and the Beast (live action) through my cable provider, or watch Doctor Strange or Captain America Civil War on Netflix. Definitely doesn't seem like there's an exclusivity here.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge shutting down is, in a way, kind of a small tragedy in of itself.

Unlike Universal Studios Florida, which has essentially gutted out every original attraction that was present at opening day (with the lone exception of ET Adventure), Islands of Adventure had always done a good job of maintaining all of its rides and attractions it had since it first opened. The only things we've lost over the years were mostly minor stuff like the Triceratops Encounter and Island Skipper Tours.

So yeah, Dueling Dragons is the park's first true casualty in that regard. It's just a shame how much the attraction deteriorated over the years. It used to be a premier attraction, a unique one of a kind coaster(s) with luxurious and detailed theming for its queue line when it was apart of The Lost Continent. Then of course, Harry Potter came along and gutted that area, and then it eventually lost the ability to duel, finally removing the ride(s) completely of its soul. And now here we are, and it's all going to disappear completely.

The Wizarding World of Harry Potter is no doubt a huge accomplishment for theme park design and I'm looking forward to seeing this new attraction, but, as an old fan of Islands of Adventure, I kinda hate to see how much was sacrificed for it. I'll always miss walking by the two awesome fire and ice dragons that used to be in front of Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge...

battling-dragons-dueling.jpg
I've wanted this ride gone since I first entered Hogsmeade 7 years ago. Even moreso when Diagon Alley and the Hogwarts Express opened. Good riddance eyesore on a fantastically themed area.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
I've wanted this ride gone since I first entered Hogsmeade 7 years ago. Even moreso when Diagon Alley and the Hogwarts Express opened. Good riddance eyesore on a fantastically themed area.

1. I'm sad to see an opening day attraction at IoA disappear.

2. Is this going to be an indoor coaster, or are they going for a fully themed 'mountain' type situation. Or are they just replacing one set of supports for another?
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
As far as I can tell these movies are also available for purchase through your cable provider or through Disney directly. Am I incorrect here?

Right now for example I can rent or buy Beauty and the Beast (live action) through my cable provider, or watch Doctor Strange or Captain America Civil War on Netflix. Definitely doesn't seem like there's an exclusivity here.
You're listing points of access, but the problem I'm discussing is having your biggest titles streaming on a service you don't own. Sure, people still buy movies, but streaming is a very important access point for a lot of people. What happens when more people cut the cord or never buy a cable subscription, but they'll eagerly pay for Netflix? What happens when one of the main interfaces viewers access streaming Disney films/tv shows is through an intermediary service like Netflix? Netflix and Amazon are using licensed children's content to make themselves the primary place where kids watch stuff so they can in turn build up their own children's programming with an eager established audience. What happens to the Disney Channel under those circumstances? Will it be the company's strongest BRAND ambassador, as it is today?

And no, I don't think Disney should buy Netflix. They need to be their own Netflix.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
You're listing points of access, but the problem I'm discussing is having your biggest titles streaming on a service you don't own. Sure, people still buy movies, but streaming is a very important access point for a lot of people. What happens when more people cut the cord or never buy a cable subscription, but they'll eagerly pay for Netflix? What happens when one of the main interfaces viewers access streaming Disney films/tv shows is through an intermediary service like Netflix? Netflix and Amazon are using licensed children's content to make themselves the primary place where kids watch stuff so they can in turn build up their own children's programming with an eager established audience. What happens to the Disney Channel under those circumstances? Will it be the company's strongest BRAND ambassador, as it is today?

And no, I don't think Disney should buy Netflix. They need to be their own Netflix.

Yeah the Netflix deal doesn't make a lot of sense from a home entertainment bottom line perspective. However, it is about falling behind culturally. Disney needs to keep in front of kids as folks leave Cable. Putting movies out on Netflix and Hulu allows them to do that. And Disney Movies Anywhere is a triumph in linking physical and digital media in all the ways that Ultraviolet failed, but doesn't replace streaming.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Yeah the Netflix deal doesn't make a lot of sense from a home entertainment bottom line perspective. However, it is about falling behind culturally. Disney needs to keep in front of kids as folks leave Cable. Putting movies out on Netflix and Hulu allows them to do that. And Disney Movies Anywhere is a triumph in linking physical and digital media in all the ways that Ultraviolet failed, but doesn't replace streaming.
But having the SVOD rights could have been a valuable tool in launching a direct to consumer Disney Channel suite à la HBO NOW.

I do wish the other studios, particularly Criterion, would have adopted Keychest by now, but I guess they're too butt hurt from UV.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
You're listing points of access, but the problem I'm discussing is having your biggest titles streaming on a service you don't own. Sure, people still buy movies, but streaming is a very important access point for a lot of people. What happens when more people cut the cord or never buy a cable subscription, but they'll eagerly pay for Netflix? What happens when one of the main interfaces viewers access streaming Disney films/tv shows is through an intermediary service like Netflix? Netflix and Amazon are using licensed children's content to make themselves the primary place where kids watch stuff so they can in turn build up their own children's programming with an eager established audience. What happens to the Disney Channel under those circumstances? Will it be the company's strongest BRAND ambassador, as it is today?

And no, I don't think Disney should buy Netflix. They need to be their own Netflix.
I'm failing to see how they don't already have this with Disney Movies Anywhere which is integrated with either your iTunes or Google accounts. What's even better is that as the video quality improves so does your digital copy. I bought Up when 720P was the only streaming option and was given 1080P when it became available.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
As for Dragon Challenge. Good riddance. They should have done this when they opened the original Harry Potter land in the first place. Assuming no sightline issues on the new ride, all the have to do is hide the Forbidden Journey show building and Hogsmeade should take over the top spot for best land in the world.
 

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
I'm failing to see how they don't already have this with Disney Movies Anywhere which is integrated with either your iTunes or Google accounts. What's even better is that as the video quality improves so does your digital copy. I bought Up when 720P was the only streaming option and was given 1080P when it became available.
Yes DMA is a great service.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I'm failing to see how they don't already have this with Disney Movies Anywhere which is integrated with either your iTunes or Google accounts. What's even better is that as the video quality improves so does your digital copy. I bought Up when 720P was the only streaming option and was given 1080P when it became available.
Can you tell me how many people buy Disney movies? Because Netflix's footprint is much larger.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
1. I'm sad to see an opening day attraction at IoA disappear.

2. Is this going to be an indoor coaster, or are they going for a fully themed 'mountain' type situation. Or are they just replacing one set of supports for another?
Indoor themed to the Forbidden Forest from what I've been reading. I won't shed a single tear for DC. Call me when it's Jurassic Park or Spider-Man.
The more UNI announces the better! Let's get this competition going! I love it!
The funny thing is is that none of this will be a surprise for anyone that follows these forums and that includes Disney. We already know Uni's plan. It involves this new ride, Nintendo, Marvel (eventually), and a brand new park. There's also rumblings of a big refurb for River Adventure that have been going on just as long as these HP rumors. Apparently it would include new AAs made by Creature Technology, the same people behind Kong.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Can you tell me how many people buy Disney movies? Because Netflix's footprint is much larger.
What side are arguing now? They've partnered with Netflix to allow viewing of their movies as part of the Netflix subscription, giving them access to that larger footprint.

It's possible you're not explaining this well, but it reads like you're all over the place.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
What side are arguing now? They've partnered with Netflix to allow viewing of their movies as part of the Netflix subscription, giving them access to that larger footprint.

It's possible you're not explaining this well, but it reads like you're all over the place.
TL: DR- DMA, while good as a service, isn't sufficient enough for the streaming needs for all who wish to access Disney content. Thus Disney hasn't sufficiently created the infrastructure to handle those needs and by putting valuable content in the hands of "partners" like Netflix, it hamstrings itself long term.

Based on your responses, I wasn't clear enough. I was responding to the following posts, yours included.
Iger had 5 years to do streaming back in 2012, He's about to overrun the end of the runway and he has no clue hes near it.

Disney Movies Anywhere is a great streaming service. First run Disney movies are on Netflix with a cycling lifespan, and all of their content is available on iTunes.
I agree with Ford that TWDC hasn't fully addressed streaming in a comprehensive way that sets the company up for long term success. Their current strategy, highlighted in your post, is a bridge to the future with a mix of options for consumers. But it only is a bridge, not where Disney needs to be in 5-10 years.

Points of Access
Let's break down their streaming strategy into parts. There is the home entertainment retail component where, through Keychest, if you buy a Disney film, physical or digital, and you register it with Disney Movies Anywhere, you can watch it on any platform that your DMA account is connected to (iTunes, Amazon, Google Play etc.). Long term, Disney has the ability to sell its films directly to consumers with this service because Disney Accounts can have credit cards attached to them. DMA/Keychest is the best streaming solution in the home entertainment arena, further aided by the other studios' reluctance to license it in favor of their inferior UltraViolet platform. Disney has succeeded in creating and controlling a streaming platform for home entertainment. We are in agreement on this.

Our point of disagreement comes from the SVOD subscription and Cable arenas. But before we get into the meat of it, let's compare the size of these points of access. The home entertainment market has been shrinking since the heights of the DVD years. While Disney continues to see healthy sales because it makes films people want to buy, said market is much smaller than SVOD or Cable. As of April 2017, Netflix has 53 million US subscribers. In the US alone, the Disney Channel has 93 million subscribers. I believe your friend Jim has cited former CFO/ P&R SVP Jay Rasulo, who has said the Disney Channel is the company's single largest ambassador of the brand.

In 2012, Disney sold the pay-tv rights to its new releases to Neflix, starting with films released in 2016 onward. Additionally, Disney has put Disney Channel programming and library film titles on the service as well. This arrangement favors Netflix, not Disney. Yes it is good for Disney to have its films and tv shows on a popular platform like Netflix, but at what cost? Netflix's business model predicates on being the main way people access films and tv shows. A very valuable market segment for Netflix is children's programming. Disney has licensed a considerable amount of its films and TV shows to Netflix. Netflix uses this content to build up the credibility of its children's offerings. In turn, as we have seen with adult oriented prestige television, they then use the viewing data and subscribers fees/cheap debt to create original children's programming, which they fully control. Netflix started this with their partnership with DreamWorks Animation and even as that partnership will come to a close once their current deal expires, they will use what they learned to continue developing high quality children's show and movies. If you're Disney, do you want to be in business with a company that actively wants to undermine one of your greatest assets and largest touch points to consumers, aka the Disney Channel?

Netflix and Amazon want to be what Disney Channel, Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network were for earlier generations, the place where kids watch shows and movies. And if you're Disney, as younger generations forgo cable, but pay for streaming services, you are handing over that mindshare, and the revenues that follow, to your competitors. The SVOD space and the cable spaces are becoming one in the eyes of consumers and Disney has given some of its most valuable films, which could be used to sell a stand alone Disney Channel suite or maintain/increase its value to cable operators, away. A lot of the critical focus on TWDC goes to ESPN, but this is just as bad because Disney's long term value comes from the relationships it develops with its viewers.

Hope that clears things up.

Addendum: The WATCH apps for the Disney Channel suite are inferior to both Netflix and some cable companies' streaming apps, like xfinitystream.
 
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The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge shutting down is, in a way, kind of a small tragedy in of itself.

Unlike Universal Studios Florida, which has essentially gutted out every original attraction that was present at opening day (with the lone exception of ET Adventure), Islands of Adventure had always done a good job of maintaining all of its rides and attractions it had since it first opened. The only things we've lost over the years were mostly minor stuff like the Triceratops Encounter and Island Skipper Tours.

So yeah, Dueling Dragons is the park's first true casualty in that regard. It's just a shame how much the attraction deteriorated over the years. It used to be a premier attraction, a unique one of a kind coaster(s) with luxurious and detailed theming for its queue line when it was apart of The Lost Continent. Then of course, Harry Potter came along and gutted that area, and then it eventually lost the ability to duel, finally removing the ride(s) completely of its soul. And now here we are, and it's all going to disappear completely.

The Wizarding World of Harry Potter is no doubt a huge accomplishment for theme park design and I'm looking forward to seeing this new attraction, but, as an old fan of Islands of Adventure, I kinda hate to see how much was sacrificed for it. I'll always miss walking by the two awesome fire and ice dragons that used to be in front of Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge...

battling-dragons-dueling.jpg
I go there just for the coasters. I don't need dragons or bespectacled boarding school boys, at UNI I'm fine with bare steel coasters and thrills. Anmd these were two of the very best in Orlando. I'd be sad to lose them for a Gringotts/Mummy GotG-swatter.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I've wanted this ride gone since I first entered Hogsmeade 7 years ago. Even moreso when Diagon Alley and the Hogwarts Express opened. Good riddance eyesore on a fantastically themed area.
I hope they theme the flying of the hypogriff more as well.
Even the Goofy coaster at MK has more "theme" lol.
 

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