A Spirited Valentine ...

asianway

asianway

Well-Known Member
Rodan75 said:
At some point the conspiracy theory on spending is just too ridiculous to believe.

They have publically stated the green dollars for this land at $500B. i wouldn't doubt they spent more in blue/affiliate dollars, but to believe they had real costs at 1.4B is just ridiculous. What value do they get in lying? Hiding costs in OpEx is bad for the bottom line. And their cap spend is well documented.
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A "project" includes both Capex and Opex and the area they fall in depends on GAAP.

In what context was the $500M used?
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Rodan75 said:
At some point the conspiracy theory on spending is just too ridiculous to believe.

They have publically stated the green dollars for this land at $500B.
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Incorrect - the $500 million comes from the initial partnership announcement when they estimated the project to be. Nearly 6 years ago and before anyone even really knew what the project was going to be.

Rodan75 said:
i wouldn't doubt they spent more in blue/affiliate dollars, but to believe they had real costs at 1.4B is just ridiculous. What value do they get in lying? Hiding costs in OpEx is bad for the bottom line. And their cap spend is well documented.
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Your fallacy is your claim they have stated the cost for the project. The fallacy of the poster I was replying to was that they could see exactly what the Pandora costs were from the consolidated financial reports.

Usually you want to roll costs into CapEx because you can claim tax benefits for R&D and amortize them too.. but the point was just looking at the CapEx line for P&R in the consolidated reports isn't the full story.

If its 100million.. or 1 billion. I don't know... but I'm smart enough to realize I don't know and not take incomplete information and try to debunk Spirit's claim. I take it as the rumor it is...
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
andysol said:
Which is why, when any insider, even my beloved spirit- gives a budget number- it is in one ear and out the other.
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Me too.. you'd have to be very well placed to know such things with any real granularity. I take it as rumor along with all the other watercooler talk.

andysol said:
Why people keep perpetrating that they know what a certain budget was on a massive, multi year project with dozens of different contracting companies, departments, R&D- the list is truly gargantuan- it's actually comical. Maybe even more comical is that people believe it as fact.
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When you take the parrot'ing out... it is interesting to hear what the different sources are hearing tho :)
 
S

seascape

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Incorrect - the $500 million comes from the initial partnership announcement when they estimated the project to be. Nearly 6 years ago and before anyone even really knew what the project was going to be.



Your fallacy is your claim they have stated the cost for the project. The fallacy of the poster I was replying to was that they could see exactly what the Pandora costs were from the consolidated financial reports.

Usually you want to roll costs into CapEx because you can claim tax benefits for R&D and amortize them too.. but the point was just looking at the CapEx line for P&R in the consolidated reports isn't the full story.

If its 100million.. or 1 billion. I don't know... but I'm smart enough to realize I don't know and not take incomplete information and try to debunk Spirit's claim. I take it as the rumor it is...
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If you take Spirit's numbers as a guess why are you only complaining about those who question his numbers.
 
PorterRedkey

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
EricsBiscuit said:
I think they have 2 options in regard to UoE dinos:

1. Use to create WDWRR scene
2. Enhance the Dinosaur attraction
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Option 3. They take 5 dinosaurs and add them to the Ellen AA. This will make ELLETRON: Goddess Dinosaur.
Elletron is a character in the new Energy attraction. The new attraction is set in Oklahoma. In the end, Elletron saves us from the massive earthquakes that the extensive fracking has caused. ;)
 
Rodan75

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Incorrect - the $500 million comes from the initial partnership announcement when they estimated the project to be. Nearly 6 years ago and before anyone even really knew what the project was going to be.



Your fallacy is your claim they have stated the cost for the project. The fallacy of the poster I was replying to was that they could see exactly what the Pandora costs were from the consolidated financial reports.

Usually you want to roll costs into CapEx because you can claim tax benefits for R&D and amortize them too.. but the point was just looking at the CapEx line for P&R in the consolidated reports isn't the full story.

If its 100million.. or 1 billion. I don't know... but I'm smart enough to realize I don't know and not take incomplete information and try to debunk Spirit's claim. I take it as the rumor it is...
Click to expand...

Good point. I was assuming that the $500MM was restated to the media as part of the press day, because it was frequently stated in media reports about the land.

But to @andysol 's point. I doubt folks outside of the CFO's office know the full true cost. And Disney gets no benefit in mistating the funds for a project this big.
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
shernernum said:
Perlmutter hasn't been in charge of Marvel studios for awhile, as Kevin Feige reports directly up the chain to Iger. He still has control of Marvel Entertainment which oversees all TV (and Netflix content) as far as I know.
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The article is referring to ALL of Marvel. Imagine if Kathleen Kennedy left Lucasfilm and no one reported it.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Rodan75 said:
But to @andysol 's point. I doubt folks outside of the CFO's office know the full true cost. And Disney gets no benefit in mistating the funds for a project this big.
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Remember, Disney isn't misleading anyone... people are running with incomplete information on their own. Disney won't pursue people to correct them if it errs in their favor.

There are benefits in keeping detailed info close to the chest... and why the information isn't regularly disclosed. Too much detail leads to scrutiny. It also hinders negotiations. The only time you hear Disney talking numbers is when they are trying to boast. You don't boast when things would expose bad angles.
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
seascape said:
@ParentsOf4 has consistently reported on Park and Resorts Capital spending and there is no way The Walt Disney Company could have spent 1 billion dollars extra on a capital program and hidden it.
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Please keep in mind that a lot of MyMagic+'s cost's appeared outside of capex, particularly in opex and SG&A (selling, general, administration, and other). The amount was several hundred million. I've mentioned this in a few posts, for example, here and here.

Would it be possible to do the same with another project? Sure. Was it done with Pandora? I don't see the same pattern of non-capex spending that I saw with MyMagic+.

Disney has spent $3.1B in domestic Parks & Resort growth capex (i.e. capital expenditures less depreciation) since Pandora was announced in September 2011 (i.e. at the start of Disney's 2012 fiscal year).

Those expenditures paid for the Disney Fantasy (delivered March 2012), Cars Land (opened June 2012), New Fantasyland (opened December 2012), MyMagic+ (announced January 2013), Seven Dwarfs Mine Train (opened May 2014), down payment for 2 additional cruise ships (announced May 2016), a third track for Toy Story Mania (May 2016), a third theater for Soarin' (May 2016), Rivers of Light (February 2017), Pandora (May 2017), and initial construction work for Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land, among other projects.

The cruise ships alone add up to around $1B, leaving roughly $2B to pay for everything else. Frankly, I have a hard time figuring out how Disney could have spent the rumored $1.4B on Pandora.
 
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ToTBellHop

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
Please keep in mind that a lot of MyMagic+'s cost's appeared outside of capex, particularly in opex and SG&A (selling, general, administration, and other). The amount was several hundred million. I've mentioned this in a few posts, for example, here and here.

Would it be possible to do the same with another project? Sure. Was it done with Pandora? I don't see the same pattern of non-capex spending that I saw with MyMagic+.

Disney has spent $3.1B in domestic Parks & Resort growth capex (i.e. capital expenditures less depreciation) since Pandora was announced in September 2011 (i.e. at the start of Disney's 2012 fiscal year).

Those expenditures paid for the Disney Fantasy (delivered March 2012), Cars Land (opened June 2012), New Fantasyland (opened December 2012), MyMagic+ (announced January 2013), Seven Dwarfs Mine Train (opened May 2014), down payment for 2 additional cruise ships (announced May 2016), a third track for Toy Story Mania (May 2016), a third theater for Soarin' (May 2016), Rivers of Light (February 2017), Pandora (May 2017), and initial construction work for Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land, among other projects.

The cruise ships alone add up to around $1B, leaving roughly $2B to pay for everything else. Frankly, I have a hard time figuring out how Disney could have spent the rumored $1.4B on Pandora.
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It's higher than anything I've ever heard. AFAIK, final cost settled around $1 bn although I suspect that's for everything at AK. It's not as though I've seen receipts...
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
The cruise ships alone add up to around $1B, leaving roughly $2B to pay for everything else. Frankly, I have a hard time figuring out how Disney could have spent the rumored $1.4B on Pandora.
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While little shocks me these days in regards to construction costs (20 years ago my community could build a school for 2-3M, they now cost literally 20 times that - 40-60M, and that's for the "toned down" version) - there is no way in hell that Pandora cost 1.4B. If somehow someone managed to spend that much on it, they have earned a spot above MC Hammer and his gold plated toilet seats in the stupidest, most flagrant waste of money club. I just don't see, even if every construction worker was wiping their behinds three times daily with $1,000 bills, and burying diamonds in the rockwork, I just don't see how it's possible. A simulator ride and a boat ride, a shop, and a restaurant - I just don't see how it's possible.

If it's true - then no one better complain about a paltry $4B for Marvel or Lucasfilm again, because the actual ROI of $1.4B just for Pandora is like thinking you can drive Uber for a few hours a week and pay off a Lamborghini.
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
One we know nothing about is how Lightstorm and Fox are paid and how much. Is it similar to the WW deal with revenue sharing or flat fees like the preacquisiton Lucasfilm/George Lucas attractions? Hell, does Pandora have a contractural expiration date?
 
andysol

andysol

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
Please keep in mind that a lot of MyMagic+'s cost's appeared outside of capex, particularly in opex and SG&A (selling, general, administration, and other). The amount was several hundred million. I've mentioned this in a few posts, for example, here and here.

Would it be possible to do the same with another project? Sure. Was it done with Pandora? I don't see the same pattern of non-capex spending that I saw with MyMagic+.

Disney has spent $3.1B in domestic Parks & Resort growth capex (i.e. capital expenditures less depreciation) since Pandora was announced in September 2011 (i.e. at the start of Disney's 2012 fiscal year).

Those expenditures paid for the Disney Fantasy (delivered March 2012), Cars Land (opened June 2012), New Fantasyland (opened December 2012), MyMagic+ (announced January 2013), Seven Dwarfs Mine Train (opened May 2014), down payment for 2 additional cruise ships (announced May 2016), a third track for Toy Story Mania (May 2016), a third theater for Soarin' (May 2016), Rivers of Light (February 2017), Pandora (May 2017), and initial construction work for Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land, among other projects.

The cruise ships alone add up to around $1B, leaving roughly $2B to pay for everything else. Frankly, I have a hard time figuring out how Disney could have spent the rumored $1.4B on Pandora.
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Thank you @ParentsOf4 - I think I can speak for many in that I hang onto your every word when you post and love your input.
You have a better understanding of the financials than anyone on the forum- I'm confident in saying that. And even you don't know. So Mr. Niles certainly doesn't. To the 100 thousand, no less :rolleyes:
 

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