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A Spirited Valentine ...

AEfx

Well-Known Member
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Apple and Nintendo do this with every product launch, they short the inventory so all the stories are about a first day sell out, Disney execs would be stupid to not massage the lines a bit to get the best possible crowd pics. The average person is going to see the opening day coverage and that's all they will remember. The average person is not coming to this site or others like it. First impressions are vital
Even if there wasn't, erm, manual massaging that day - clearly, Disney wanted to make a statement. They ran nationwide ads during prime-time advertising it, with a specific date - the 26th. I cannot remember Disney ever advertising anything at WDW with a specific date like that. Usually they don't start running things like that until "Now at WDW..." They clearly wanted to make "opening day" newsworthy (even though it had mostly been open for weeks).

I said it in the review thread, but it seems relevant here - Pandora made AK more, well, AK. A better AK, no doubt. It's a positive that the park is finally a full-day affair, it sorely needed more rides, and the quality and money spent is a breath of fresh air. But...it's not a game changer. It's going to draw more guests toward AK, particularly at night. Again, a great thing.

When you realize it's easier already to get into Pandora than it is to ride GoG over at DCA - I think we are also seeing that theme does in fact matter.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
No DLP thoughts yet. Soon.

Just heard from a kind Spirit what I have been saying for many months now. For all the FL projects being tossed around (leaked) these days, if the project doesn't have an internal green light by early in the next fiscal year, it won't be part of WDW's 50th. They do -- believe it or not -- have a sorta road map. While I expect announcements at D23 this summer (when I shall blissfully be on the other side of the globe as bloggers try to get Chris Pratt or maybe even Kevin Feige to talk for 20 seconds -- BTW, there used to be a guy on the Tweeter that would talk with all the fanbois with the same last name ... Kevin's little bro? anyone know?), I would be VERY surprised if they are not focused on Marvel heavily AND recently opened stuff like Pandora. I don't see them giving any hints into WDW projects. That's what the next one is for.

BTW, since y'all love derailing my threads with movie talk, it seems like GotG2, while greatly successful isn't coming close to what Burbank had projected. And Pirates ...well, sadly, I do think with the film doing this well, they will take it as a sign to continue making films to pay Captain Jack's large debts.Especially, when you see how popular the film is in China and Disney having an entire Pirates themed land at SDL.

Oh, and congrats to Robert Niles, who has taken whoring to a new level by attending both whorefests in Orlando and later the one in Anaheim. It takes a lot to do that. It also takes a lot to say Pandora cost $1.4 billion (yet I see no one questioning that like when a dear Spirit said NGE was costing between $2-3 billion ... BTW, real costs are over $4 billion, but spread over so many years and businesses to make it virtually unrecognizable.) Original budget was $500 million. I heard they had approval to go above $600 million years ago, but $1.4 billion?! I don't care how impressive this land may be. If Disney can't bring in projects at half or 2/3rds what they are spending, then maybe it is time to blow WDI's current structure up. Because that's as insane as many of the posters down in the politics forum!
 

huwar18

Well-Known Member
AK has underperformed for 19 years despite most everything there, including Pandora, being well done. At this point failure isn't an option
It is hard to believe it has under-performed. The park is always so crowded and the lines always push over 45 minutes to an hour. I know there are not a lot of rides but that still shows how many people are going to AK. Personally, I enjoy the park. However, it is one I sometimes skip.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
I don't see how they can be disappointed in GoTG2 but I know they set insanely high bars. I'm not too worried about it's future. If they consider Pirates 5 a success then GOTG2 was a success.

I wasn't expecting much for WDW at D23. We'll maybe get a date for TSL opening. Wooo hoo? LOL

I'd imagine they focus on DHS overall if they say anything. If GMR is closing August/September for Mickey's takeover, I'd be surprised if that wasn't dropped there.

2019 seems like a better place to focus on WDW's 50th. Anyone wanna place bets on how little they greelit and then attempt to spin it? They need to get a move on.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
No DLP thoughts yet. Soon.

Just heard from a kind Spirit what I have been saying for many months now. For all the FL projects being tossed around (leaked) these days, if the project doesn't have an internal green light by early in the next fiscal year, it won't be part of WDW's 50th. They do -- believe it or not -- have a sorta road map. While I expect announcements at D23 this summer (when I shall blissfully be on the other side of the globe as bloggers try to get Chris Pratt or maybe even Kevin Feige to talk for 20 seconds -- BTW, there used to be a guy on the Tweeter that would talk with all the fanbois with the same last name ... Kevin's little bro? anyone know?), I would be VERY surprised if they are not focused on Marvel heavily AND recently opened stuff like Pandora. I don't see them giving any hints into WDW projects. That's what the next one is for.

BTW, since y'all love derailing my threads with movie talk, it seems like GotG2, while greatly successful isn't coming close to what Burbank had projected. And Pirates ...well, sadly, I do think with the film doing this well, they will take it as a sign to continue making films to pay Captain Jack's large debts.Especially, when you see how popular the film is in China and Disney having an entire Pirates themed land at SDL.

Oh, and congrats to Robert Niles, who has taken whoring to a new level by attending both whorefests in Orlando and later the one in Anaheim. It takes a lot to do that. It also takes a lot to say Pandora cost $1.4 billion (yet I see no one questioning that like when a dear Spirit said NGE was costing between $2-3 billion ... BTW, real costs are over $4 billion, but spread over so many years and businesses to make it virtually unrecognizable.) Original budget was $500 million. I heard they had approval to go above $600 million years ago, but $1.4 billion?! I don't care how impressive this land may be. If Disney can't bring in projects at half or 2/3rds what they are spending, then maybe it is time to blow WDI's current structure up. Because that's as insane as many of the posters down in the politics forum!
If you are right on the cost of Pandora, someone could go to jail as their publicly stated costs are much less and the laws since the great recession require true disclosures. I think 600 million is more like the actual costs based on the financial statements. This is much different that the cost of next gen which could be split between all the divisions at WDW.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
I think they have 2 options in regard to UoE dinos:

1. Use to creat WDWRR scene
2. Enhance the Dinosaur attraction
Railroad makes more sense then cramming them into Dinosaur. Too much of a clash in aesthetics with what's already in Dinosaur.

Energy's Dinos are from the old school Fantasia/Zallinger days of paleoart, Dinosaur's are a much more modern "post-Jurassic Park" sort of mindset.
 

disneyC97

Well-Known Member
Adding the dino AAs to the fantasyland part of the WDRR track (including the overpass section) would be great and take care of poor sight lines. Can't imagine though it's even being considered...

Any insiders hear anything?
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Since we don't have the Primeval World Diorama like Disneyland has left over from the World's Fair, maybe forget the Dinos since we have them at Animal Kingdom and do something totally unique that relates to the Magic Kingdom...Why not have the train travel through a giant Wonderland tableau since we don't actually have the Alice ride? Or a Neverland Diorama...Waterfalls, Mermaids, jungles and indians...Could be beauiful...LOTS of other choices other than the Dinos at Disneyland...
 

flynnibus

Well-Known Member
If you are right on the cost of Pandora, someone could go to jail as their publicly stated costs are much less and the laws since the great recession require true disclosures. I think 600 million is more like the actual costs based on the financial statements.
Uhh no.

And how exactly are you going to extract the cost of Pandora out of the public financials that roll up global expenses across so many entities over nearly 6 years?

And define 'costs', when they can twist what is attributed to Pandora vs regular expenses vs shared... etc. What matters is the bottom line number accuracy.. and you'll never get an officer of the company to try to state the all inclusive spend on a theme park project that would be binding in anyway.
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
I don't see how they can be disappointed in GoTG2 but I know they set insanely high bars. I'm not too worried about it's future. If they consider Pirates 5 a success then GOTG2 was a success.
That has more to do with marketing budgets; given the modern movie landscape it's taken as a rule of thumb that a film needs to make back double its budget to be considered at least somewhat successful, as marketing has gone global and what have you, and some major tent pole films even get more pressure put on them. Batman v Superman, for example, I believe made somewhere north of $850 million worldwide...and was kind of considered a bust in the process, as WB was counting on it to break $1 billion and had built its marketing budget and what have you with that in mind.

No clue if that's the full thinking with Guardians 2, and I'm sure they're not super disappointed or anything, but it's possible that it's simply going to fall short of loftier goals that Disney had set for it.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
For all the FL projects being tossed around (leaked) these days, if the project doesn't have an internal green light by early in the next fiscal year, it won't be part of WDW's 50th. They do -- believe it or not -- have a sorta road map.
I'm curious if there is a proverbial stack of money allotted for the 50th and part of the reason there are so many rumors floating around is that different folks from WDI are trying to get different projects approved to use a share of those funds. It could be by leaking some plans, they might hope to have the interwebs all excited as a way to justify approving their pet project. Maybe?

Regardless, it's good to hear that is actually some sort of plan in place for the 50th. While it's perhaps absurd that things need to be determined so far in advance given the pace at which Disney builds, it's better to have them prepare ahead of time than scramble closer to that date.
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
Since we don't have the Primeval World Diorama like Disneyland has left over from the World's Fair, maybe forget the Dinos since we have them at Animal Kingdom and do something totally unique that relates to the Magic Kingdom...Why not have the train travel through a giant Wonderland tableau since we don't actually have the Alice ride? Or a Neverland Diorama...Waterfalls, Mermaids, jungles and indians...Could be beauiful...LOTS of other choices other than the Dinos at Disneyland...
I didnt get to ride the train when I was at Disneyland, It seemed to be operating just at intermittent times of the day and unfortunately I kept missing it. Same with matterhorn. I did get to go on the Alice ride and WOW that was a charming dark ride. It was pretty long and the effects were pretty good especially the soldiers marching. I did very little research before my trip as to what attractions they had that wdw did not and I finally get why people are so pro Disneyland.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Uhh no.

And how exactly are you going to extract the cost of Pandora out of the public financials that roll up global expenses across so many entities over nearly 6 years?

And define 'costs', when they can twist what is attributed to Pandora vs regular expenses vs shared... etc. What matters is the bottom line number accuracy.. and you'll never get an officer of the company to try to state the all inclusive spend on a theme park project that would be binding in anyway.
Don't take my word for it. I dont care but Disney has discussed costs with various financial entities and therefore would be in violation of the law if they reported incorrect information. Does that mean they can't hide some costs, no but they have to be very careful and could not hide 3 times what they publicly say. You should read many different financial websites and not based your views on one, especially this one which is not a financial website and full of incorrect information. However, if you look at all their financial reporting, there is no way they invested 1.5 billion into Pandora. If they did, they could not have invested 5.5 billion into Shanghai. The numbers would no add up. The most reported number in the press if 500 million, but I think it was possibly 600 million. A 100 million difference could be hidden but no way 1 billion. As for a site with more credibility that wdwmagic, try https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/14125896/1/here-comes-disney-s-earnings-and-these-5-amazing-new-theme-park-attractions.html or https://finance.yahoo.com/news/disneys-world-avatar-attraction-going-160316082.html
 

flynnibus

Well-Known Member
Don't take my word for it. I dont care but Disney has discussed costs with various financial entities and therefore would be in violation of the law if they reported incorrect information
The point is the information isn't always Black and White. They could be factual in what they said, but not giving away everything they could.

When you say 'look at their financial reporting' - what categories are you looking at? That's the problem, not everything is a capital expense.. so how do you separate out all the OpEx being spent in developing projects from all the other noise and churn? You can't from the financial reports.. all you can do is look at the deltas.. which when the company is simultaneously NUMEROUS things (from Cruise lines, star wars, theme park development, and much much more) there is so much churn you can't really do anything from the consolidated reports except take note of the overall higher numbers.

The press numbers you cite aren't sourced at all, not even attesting them to Disney. Disney rarely talks numbers in this regard, they instead like to talk in terms of how the financials are reported.. in terms of increasing or decreasing the total buckets with justifications on why. The 500 number likely comes from Iger's initial announcement of the partnership. Which was a placeholder - not a fixed budget.

I have no idea what their totals are on Pandora or if the cited numbers are viable, but your retorts and claims are pretty much baseless and that's what I was responding too. The numbers can't be reasonable extracted from the consolidated financials.. and the wiggle room on statements vs actual you can drive cruise ships through.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Don't take my word for it. I dont care but Disney has discussed costs with various financial entities and therefore would be in violation of the law if they reported incorrect information. Does that mean they can't hide some costs, no but they have to be very careful and could not hide 3 times what they publicly say. You should read many different financial websites and not based your views on one, especially this one which is not a financial website and full of incorrect information. However, if you look at all their financial reporting, there is no way they invested 1.5 billion into Pandora. If they did, they could not have invested 5.5 billion into Shanghai. The numbers would no add up. The most reported number in the press if 500 million, but I think it was possibly 600 million. A 100 million difference could be hidden but no way 1 billion. As for a site with more credibility that wdwmagic, try https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/14125896/1/here-comes-disney-s-earnings-and-these-5-amazing-new-theme-park-attractions.html or https://finance.yahoo.com/news/disneys-world-avatar-attraction-going-160316082.html
Could the $1.4 billion figure include all the projects (Harambe Theater, Harambe Market, Rivers of Light, Tiffins/Nomad Lounge, Discovery Island and Tree of Life refurbishments/enhancements) that have been done at AK since Pandora was announced?
 
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