A Spirited Valentine ...

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
All failing companies have departments like this that other divisions are mandated to do business with. Sometimes its IT where a $800 laptop costs the requesting department $5000 sometimes its Office supplies where a ream of paper is $25 and a box of pens is $30

All are characterized similarly

1 - Business Units are mandated to use them irrespective of savings which could be had by going outside

2 - Products and services from these departments cost at a minimum 2-3X the price of the same product or service on the open market.


I think we can all agree that WDI projects now cost far in excess of the actual value of the finished product

NFL 450 mill ?!?!?, Diagon Alley 255 mil

Inquring minds go hmmmm. Something does not pass the smell test

NFL wasn't close to 450 mil, but I do get your point. I agree that Disney has entered a vicious cycle where projects are scaled back, delayed or outright cancelled because costs are out of control. Your point is completely valid but I think there's a bit of boy who cried wolf going on here. People just assume that you're not making a logical argument because they're used to you not doing that. :)
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
Its New York City flashy is the only thing family friendly enough to work.

The reality would be piles of garbage waiting to be collected the smell of pee and vomit and rats frolicking

So it would be like Asia at Animal Kingdom if it that land was truly authentic. :p I'd hate to see a real life version of Pirates or Jungle Cruise.
 

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
There is a phenomenon I label "over-design" that applies to big-budget movies and likely to big-budget theme parks as well. If you look at the production design of the original Star Wars or Lord of the Rings vs The new Star Wars or Hobbits... the originals were seen as studio risks and produced under budget & time constraints. The ones that came later had the freedom to create countless design iterations for review and re-review, as well as the option to employ more expensive tech. Why film a villain in make-up & prosthetics when you can create a CGI one for 50x the cost (and which won't look as good). Not only does this create massive expense, but, the scrappier, more creative or instinctual concepts tend to get over-thought and lost. "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time [or money]."
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Its New York City flashy is the only thing family friendly enough to work.

The reality would be piles of garbage waiting to be collected the smell of pee and vomit and rats frolicking

You realize that Theme Parks can create idealized versions of anything. Your imagination is the limit.

Imagine lining up through a detailed New York street, with hot dog vendors, new york facades, a night sky above. Broadway marquees glowing, could involve live entertainment outside the marquee.. actually create the environment of travelling down a New York street to Fallon. I know there isn't room for that, I am just saying... Lot's of ways to create a New York experience that doesn't involve trash and pee.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
You realize that Theme Parks can create idealized versions of anything. Your imagination is the limit.

Imagine lining up through a detailed New York street, with hot dog vendors, new york facades, a night sky above. Broadway marquees glowing, could involve live entertainment outside the marquee.. actually create the environment of travelling down a New York street to Fallon. I know there isn't room for that, I am just saying... Lot's of ways to create a New York experience that doesn't involve trash and pee.
I liked it the first time I saw it when it was called "The Streets of America"
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
I'm not knocking the indoor part of it, it is quite nice from the looks of things. It's nothing intrinsically to do with a switchbacks being the problem or the enemy here. Forbidden Journey's queue still ranks as an experience, more so than Fallon's. The inside experience is really just two free-roaming pre-show rooms with live entertainment in the second. It's a really good solution that's been under-utilized in recent years. Much more akin to what Universal used to do with older attractions like Disaster.



It's the virtual line that's the issue, they are trying to eliminate the switchbacks before the pre-shows. Those are the people that have to go somewhere. Namely outside. Or they just make the pre-shows longer and longer and then that defeats the point. Unless by virtual they just mean the "pager system" for when you are already inside. That I have no issue with.

All I'll say is we already know the results of this from Disney and these next gen queueless, interactive, explorative approaches are not the pie in the sky solution. You still wait. It works only to a limited point when too much park capacity is involved in the scheme. In the pursuit of queue reduction Disney is a nightmare. Now Universal wants to maybe eliminate them entirely...
There's a multitude of problems with potential queueless parks. Just thinking about a few of them:
1) I mentioned this in another thread, the strangely named "Peace," there's vulnerability of system outages knocking out the wait times system. Imagine nearly 30 Thousand guests suddenly losing their place in line due to a computer failure. Can you fathom the chaos of handling this without proper physical queues? How does a theme park recover without having adequate queuing capacity? Would ride boarding be determined by who's standing closest to the door? Chaos is the word I used on the other thread; and chaos is what it would be. A system without proper contingencies, which despite its controversy FP+ has, is simply ridiculously shortsighted.
2) Lines are limiting, but they're also highly efficient. You can comfortably pack in way more people using traditional queueing techniques than just rooms full of people. People like space. Unless it's a concert or a speech people want breathing room. A queue balances the needs of guests while also being tight enough to ensure space maximization.
3) Queues produce a sense of fairness. A reason FP+/FP is so offensive to many people is the idea that people "are cutting ahead." While in actuality FPs represent people digitally queueing for attractions, they still offend people's sensibilities. Queueless will turn resentment up a notch. The pre shows may be cool at first, but if you want to ride a ride a #Panda is not going to distract you for very long. As guests see people go in ahead of them, they'll almost undoubtably get annoyed. They won't be feeling like they're making any progress towards the attraction. It may be totally offset by the freedom that queueless gives them, but this could be an issue with guest perception. They need to approach the idea carefully.
4) They'll justify ever increasingly shorter attractions. If you look at the queue as a key part of the experience, then the attraction is just merely a part of the whole production. Instead of the queue being a component that enriches the story the attraction is going to be telling, it becomes the story. Honestly I am all in favor of highly detailed queues and pre shows, but the attraction starts when I sit down and ends when I get up. Maybe I'm old fashioned that way, but that's how I view the theme park world.

Pre shows and nicely themed queues are just the icing on the cake.

This seems like another MyMagic+ idea; cool queues and waiting mechanisms instead of adding attractions. Give me high quality and lengthy rides and I'll be a happy camper.
 
Last edited:

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying every ride needs to be authentic. But if you truly want New York authenticity, you're going to need a baseline and trash/urine has to factor in somewhere. It's just not real without it. :)
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
NFL wasn't close to 450 mil, but I do get your point. I agree that Disney has entered a vicious cycle where projects are scaled back, delayed or outright cancelled because costs are out of control. Your point is completely valid but I think there's a bit of boy who cried wolf going on here. People just assume that you're not making a logical argument because they're used to you not doing that. :)

According to the Spirit and a few others the cost was indeed on the order of 450 Mil, I have no means of confirming this but the Spirit and his spies are usually pretty accurate,

As to 'cried wolf' i've speculated that Disney would charge for things like FP and behold they are charging for FP at SDL and now DL and how long will it be before the same happens at WDW, I've NEVER pretended to be an insider I just look at business trends and try to predict what Disney will do.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
and if the 120 million is to be believed for the Frozen Overlay, 450 million for the entire NFL sounds about right... almost cheap.
 

rushtest4echo

Well-Known Member
From official press (not Disney, but press and analysts) I've seen:
$250 million
$280 million
$300 million
$425 million
$450 million
$600 million

From Disney's internal auditing that was provided to their accountants and insurers, the cost was slightly north of $300 million. Which is still ridiculous, but 65% of the oft quoted cost that's been pulled from thin air.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I think that the FP+ with improvements can work better. If the system allowed you to pick all the rides you want and let the system schedule it based upon the time you picked to enter the park and planned to leave. Now all rides would not be available but the Universal plan allows only one ride to be scheduled at a time. FP+allows 3 per day but could do much better. Technology scheduling is better than human scheduling and can plan for walking time and shopping time at exit of each ride. Technology can also do a much better job of spreading people around the park and prevent over crowding.

If people felt that all attractions at Disney had equal entertainment value the spreading would be practical but the problem is and was that MM+ was sold to the board as a SUBSTITUTE for building capacity and many rides capacity was negatively impacted by adding FP+ especially omnimover based rides,


The reality is that there is not enough ride capacity in WDW and FP+ makes things worse not better. WDW needs MORE ride capacity not less and it needs more 'people eater' rides.

UNI is rapidly scaling capacity along with creating a queueless system which utilizes the preshow as a 'sub-atttraction' in and of itself, While Spiderman has a queue getting TO the ride is walking through a 1970's newspaper building, Have not seen the Fallon ride yet but the queue should be interesting and it will be informative to see how it works as peak season dawns
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
From official press (not Disney, but press and analysts) I've seen:
$250 million
$280 million
$300 million
$425 million
$450 million
$600 million

From Disney's internal auditing that was provided to their accountants and insurers, the cost was slightly north of $300 million. Which is still ridiculous, but 65% of the oft quoted cost that's been pulled from thin air.

Careful leaking 'official' Disney numbers Burbank really hates that.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Don Rickles has passed away. A true legend.

latest
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Last edited:

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom