A Spirited Valentine ...

[HMF]

All that money, and it was still a turd. Incredible, isn't it?

I wouldn't describe it as a turd. I would describe it as a well-themed concept that could have been MUCH better.

 

[HMF]

Unlike most here I enjoy Mermaid and think it's a perfectly nice people-eater with some fun scenes and AAs. Cloning it from DCA should have been cheaper, but that's WDI for you.

If only they put as much into the ride as they did into the queue.

 

[rushtest4echo]

The Frozen overlay was reported at 120 million... I would say there is a problem if even the simplest of projects is north of 100 million...

Absolutely correct, but the ride itself was only about 60% of that cost. The rest was for the other parts of the Norway expansion (which was also ridiculously expensive). The entire project could/should have been under $50 mil.

As I've lamented before, Disney has entered the NASA stage of project management. Everything costs 300% more, takes 200% longer, has 500% more oversight than needed, and ends up having a majority of their projects scuttled because of all of those factors. And for people who attribute that to bean counters or clueless executives- the buck stops with WDI. Why is it that they can't do an overlay like Sub Voyage at DL, Frozen at Norway or even stuff like the Paradise Pier placemaking without breaking the bank? Executives and operations managers aren't the ones inflating those costs to obscene levels. The Baxters, Rohdes, and Lasseters of the company (I know Lasseter isn't in WDI but he seems to push hard for very expensive Pixar offerings in the parks) are doing that.

But much like NASA, Disney has been to the moon and practically invented entire industries while others have been playing catch up for 50 years. Maybe someone will eventually pass them, but it hasn't come close to happening yet.

 

[Kman101]

The Frozen overlay was reported at 120 million... I would say there is a problem if even the simplest of projects is north of 100 million...

And there are definitely some areas they could improve upon. The budgets they have and how they use them needs some help. It's not a bad ride (but in the wrong place) actually. But that price tag ....

 

[rushtest4echo]

Groupthink is a phenomenon related to risk taking in decision making. What decision making is occurring here?

Groupthink, a term coined by social psychologist Irving Janis (1972), occurs when a group makes faulty decisions because group pressures lead to a deterioration of “mental efficiency, reality testing, and moral judgment” (p. 9). Groups affected by groupthink ignore alternatives and tend to take irrational actions that dehumanize other groups. A group is especially vulnerable to groupthink when its members are similar in background, when the group is insulated from outside opinions, and when there are no clear rules for decision making.

In the case of this forum (and others like it), a 'risk' is to oppose the viewpoints of the collective, who's own viewpoints are colored/tainted by other members viewpoints. The faulty premise in this specific thread is that because everyone is so convinced that clueless managers and bean counters have ruined creativity at WDW, areas like New Fantasyland are a theoretical and practical failure- despite the actual guest desires and feedback provided before and after the project came to be. Elsewhere (or still in this thread/ones like it), people assume that the Yeti hasn't been fixed due to clueless managers and bean counters, or that there's some vast conspiracy involved in China preventing the entire Walt Disney Company from doing projects everywhere else. This forum even offers the ability to "ignore" others, and while some people are simply stirring the pot and taking contrarian positions, much of the time I see people making specific posts to the tune of "well that ignore button is getting heavy use lately" after a group of posts from someone that is saying "guys, calm down, WDW isn't a vile cesspool of evil".

The risk here is alienating one's self by asserting something like the Mermaid ride not being a colossal flaming pile of garbage. Many people here view projects through certain lenses, and those lenses are not the ones that Disney or most of it's paying customers care for. Being objective when you're a fan is hard everywhere, but it's next to impossible when you attempt to counter the prevailing attitude within said community- whether or not that attitude is well reasoned and open to other viewpoints. The issue I see most commonly is that this consensus isn't well reasoned, or that the reasoning amounts to the whining of a jaded, bitter group of armchair managers and imagineers.

I didn't think that was much of a stretch to imply that there are certain attitudes here which are rewarded, and others are shouted down or ignored regardless of the merits of either argument. Isn't that the entire rationale behind a "like" button and an "ignore" one- to reward the people you agree with and ignore the ones you don't? If it's just to prevent trolling, then I'd suggest a better policing and ban policy by the mods. Consensus rules the day, and alternative opinions are largely drowned out by the echo chamber- ESPECIALLY in threads by the OP (it's largely not even his own doing).

 

[Mike S]

I get it was a design choice, but it's nice to see Tokyo getting the full Beast's castle, not what we ended up with in Florida

I think the castle on that model is the WDW castle

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Who illustrated the watercolor concept art pieces for this project? They are gorgeous and exactly what I want to see Disney do more of.

 

[RSoxNo1]

SDMT isn't bad, but the rest of it is, and yes, way too expensive. Must be all that magic!

Enchanted Tales and BOG are wastes of space. BOG is obviously a moneymaker, and it's a fine idea, as are enhanced meet-n-greets like ETWB, but not at the expense of actual attractions which the park desperately needs for capacity. They spent all that money and took up all that space to restore the MK to 1994 capacity levels. It's truly insane.

Unlike most here I enjoy Mermaid and think it's a perfectly nice people-eater with some fun scenes and AAs. Cloning it from DCA should have been cheaper, but that's WDI for you. And Storybook Circus? The LOLs never stop.

And while you're certainly entitled to like and enjoy what you wish, WDW guests in general will literally like anything. I've been to theme parks the world over and none are as accepting of any scraps thrown at them like WDW guests, probably because they're thrown so little they'll take anything. WDW guests would have liked Tokyo's BATB ride more. They would have liked a longer SDMT with additional show scenes more. They would have liked those godforsaken tents to be removed for a real themed area more.

All that hype, all that money and the resulting NFL product was lackluster to the extreme. It's still packed with people, just like every other lackluster offering at WDW (there are several).

New Fantasyland is aesthetically beautiful but it lacks a headliner attraction. Mermaid and Mine Train are solid additions, but not over the top. Be Our Guest evidently needs an expansion (or MK needs better restaurants) because you still can't get reservations 180 days out. Enchanted tales with Belle is a joke. It's an E-ticket setup for a World Showcase Players level puppet show.

 

[Kman101]

SDMT isn't bad, but the rest of it is, and yes, way too expensive. Must be all that magic!

Enchanted Tales and BOG are wastes of space. BOG is obviously a moneymaker, and it's a fine idea, as are enhanced meet-n-greets like ETWB, but not at the expense of actual attractions which the park desperately needs for capacity. They spent all that money and took up all that space to restore the MK to 1994 capacity levels. It's truly insane.

Unlike most here I enjoy Mermaid and think it's a perfectly nice people-eater with some fun scenes and AAs. Cloning it from DCA should have been cheaper, but that's WDI for you. And Storybook Circus? The LOLs never stop.

And while you're certainly entitled to like and enjoy what you wish, WDW guests in general will literally like anything. I've been to theme parks the world over and none are as accepting of any scraps thrown at them like WDW guests, probably because they're thrown so little they'll take anything. WDW guests would have liked Tokyo's BATB ride more. They would have liked a longer SDMT with additional show scenes more. They would have liked those godforsaken tents to be removed for a real themed area more.

All that hype, all that money and the resulting NFL product was lackluster to the extreme. It's still packed with people, just like every other lackluster offering at WDW (there are several).

Hope you enjoy GOTG: Mission Cashgrab, at least we don't have to deal with that.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

New Fantasyland is aesthetically beautiful but it lacks a headliner attraction. Mermaid and Mine Train are solid additions, but not over the top. Be Our Guest evidently needs an expansion (or MK needs better restaurants) because you still can't get reservations 180 days out. Enchanted tales with Belle is a joke. It's an E-ticket setup for a World Showcase Players level puppet show.

I don't even find it aesthetically beautiful. The Mermaid facade is well done, but the rest feels very off to me. I guess Belle's cottage is fine, but the castle thing is bad and SDMT is just kind of there. Storybook Circus is just ugly.

Hope you enjoy GOTG: Mission Cashgrab, at least we don't have to deal with that.

Yeah, that thing is hideous. I hope the ride inside is awesome because if not it will be a total wash.

 

[Kman101]

I don't even find it aesthetically beautiful. The Mermaid facade is well done, but the rest feels very off to me. I guess Belle's cottage is fine, but the castle thing is bad and SDMT is just kind of there. Storybook Circus is just ugly.



Yeah, that thing is hideous. I hope the ride inside is awesome because if not it will be a total wash.

I'm not a fan of Storybook Circus either. Dueling Dumbos serves a purpose but it was a total waste of space overall. So much else could have been done. Ugh.

There was a leaked picture of the elevator shaft for GOTG and they added some weird letterings on the back but nothing has changed. Though I guess what else could they really do? LOL. Let's hope the ride is good. I'm really glad (though I still have a bad feeling about it coming to FL, unless I hear 100% confirmation that it was greenlit for Energy, where it also doesn't belong) for whatever reason they decided not to bring it to DHS. And that makeover is sort of a wash. SWL will be great and all but relying on just that and Toy Story? They need so much more. How do they get it so wrong most of the time at WDW?

 

[ford91exploder]

"They're tourists... Whadda they know?"

I'm genuinely curious why WDI project costs are so incredibly high these days. It just seems ridonkulous that a project which would cost other companies $50 million ends up in the $200-300 million range for Disney (a bit exaggerated, I'm sure, but you all get the point).

WDI is the department losses are hidden in at Disney. This more than anything explains the exhorbitant rates charged 'WDI customers'. Yes JR likes his reasearch trips but to use that as an excuse hed need jets idling on the tarmac 24x7 to run up those expenses

 

[peter11435]

WDI is the department losses are hidden in at Disney. This more than anything explains the exhorbitant rates charged 'WDI customers'. Yes JR likes his reasearch trips but to use that as an excuse hed need jets idling on the tarmac 24x7 to run up those expenses

All of your posts really should come with an automatic disclaimer..

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

How do they get it so wrong most of the time at WDW?

It really is incredible, isn't it? And yet, they're rewarded with overwhelming success.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't even find it aesthetically beautiful. The Mermaid facade is well done, but the rest feels very off to me. I guess Belle's cottage is fine, but the castle thing is bad and SDMT is just kind of there. Storybook Circus is just ugly.

It's starting to get a bit better, but I think a good bit of it has to do with Disney's aggressive adoption of BIM (building information modeling, specifically Revit). Just look at film where only the very, very best digital animators can get the sort of loose feeling of a storybook. It's something that even Disney cannot really do, and thus you get the in-depth research and realism of Frozen. It is definitely odd, and a bit much, to ask architects to build digital models that exceed the work of fairytale animators.

 

[brb1006]

New Fantasyland is aesthetically beautiful but it lacks a headliner attraction. Mermaid and Mine Train are solid additions, but not over the top. Be Our Guest evidently needs an expansion (or MK needs better restaurants) because you still can't get reservations 180 days out. Enchanted tales with Belle is a joke. It's an E-ticket setup for a World Showcase Players level puppet show.

Which is a shame since Enchanted tales with Belle had very good special effects. Especially the door effects that takes you to another room.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

It's starting to get a bit better, but I think a good bit of it has to do with Disney's aggressive adoption of BIM (building information modeling, specifically Revit). Just look at film where only the very, very best digital animators can get the sort of loose feeling of a storybook. It's something that even Disney cannot really do, and thus you get the in-depth research and realism of Frozen. It is definitely odd, and a bit much, to ask architects to build digital models that exceed the work of fairytale animators.

Have you been to SDL yet? Would be curious to hear your thoughts. I found Treasure Cove and Adventure Isle to be very strong, and was even pleasantly surprised by Mickey Avenue.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Have you been to SDL yet? Would be curious to hear your thoughts. I found Treasure Cove and Adventure Isle to be very strong, and was even pleasantly surprised by Mickey Avenue.

I believe I was the first WDWMagic member to visit the park.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/greetings-from-shanghai-disneyland.914360/

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I believe I was the first WDWMagic member to visit the park.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/greetings-from-shanghai-disneyland.914360/

Amazing! Thank you! I felt similarly on many things in the park but could never articulate them as well.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I anticipate it will be a better ride than the Tower of Terror that it replaced. However it changes that entire park and further emphasizes what was already a visual intrusion with something uglier than the Hollywood Tower Hotel.

Silver lining... it won't be weirdly out of theme that the elevator goes sideways right out of the load area, because it's a magic space elevator now.