A Spirited Valentine ...

[rushtest4echo]

That's fine. I agree that Disney's budgets are out of control. But NFL wasn't built on the cheap or anything. It's one reason that any expansions aren't palatable for the bean counters at Disney. I'm sure Pandora and Star Wars land will eclipse even Potterland in many regards, but Disney's needing to spend double the budget of either of the Potterlands to build Pandora or SWL. Islands of Adventure was constructed for the cost of SWL and Pandora.

When you have a rides like Mystic Manor and Ratatouille costing north of $150 million (for the ride alone, the surrounding areas were more eye watering with regard to cost) it's just ridiculous. Same for Toy Story Mania, which cost around $80 million. Look at what even SIX FLAGS is accomplishing with their Justice League dark rides that cost a fraction of what Toy Story Mania cost. Even Toy Story Land at Paris was north of $60 million which makes me want to strangle someone. That land should have been done for under $15 million.

Take a look at Maus au Chocolat at Phantasialand or the upcoming Symbolica at Efteling and you'll find rides that are every bit as good (and in many cases, far better) that use the same underlying ride systems as TSMM/Rat yet managed to accomplish superior queues, stories and theming for a fraction of what Disney spends. Symbolica is Efteling's largest investment EVER at $35 million, yet that's 1/4 of the cost of Ratatouille and looks like it'll be the better ride of the two. It might even challenge Mystic Manor and that's just crazy to see the disparity in cost.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

You're right, $300+ million is just such a paltry budget.

All that money, and it was still a turd. Incredible, isn't it?

 

[rushtest4echo]

All that money, and it was still a turd. Incredible, isn't it?

It's not a turd to 99% of the people that visit (and not to me). I know people here can't comprehend that though- the groupthink here is astounding...

It should have been done with 1/2 or 1/3 of the budget though.

 

[Bocabear]

The Frozen overlay was reported at 120 million... I would say there is a problem if even the simplest of projects is north of 100 million...

 

[ford91exploder]

The inconsistent scales of the buildings, not just the Beast's Castle, in NFL is so infuriating.

What do you expect from so called 'Imagineers' with a newly minted MFA and zero experience in the visual arts...

 

[ford91exploder]

All that money, and it was still a turd. Incredible, isn't it?

But look what $250 million bought just up I-4 a piece, Yeah 'Burbank we have a problem...'

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's not a turd to 99% of the people that visit (and not to me). I know people here can't comprehend that though- the groupthink here is astounding...

It should have been done with 1/2 or 1/3 of the budget though.

Groupthink is a phenomenon related to risk taking in decision making. What decision making is occurring here?

 

[Bocabear]

All that money, and it was still a turd. Incredible, isn't it?

I think "Turd" is harsh...and a bit crude. I think underwhelming would be more accurate. The finished area is very beautiful, but for the space and money they should have had another attraction...and by "attraction" i don't mean another Meet &Greet... there is certainly room especially if you remove the circus tents and water play area. They could and sould have done so much more.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

It's not a turd to 99% of the people that visit (and not to me). I know people here can't comprehend that though- the groupthink here is astounding...

It should have been done with 1/2 or 1/3 of the budget though.

SDMT isn't bad, but the rest of it is, and yes, way too expensive. Must be all that magic!

Enchanted Tales and BOG are wastes of space. BOG is obviously a moneymaker, and it's a fine idea, as are enhanced meet-n-greets like ETWB, but not at the expense of actual attractions which the park desperately needs for capacity. They spent all that money and took up all that space to restore the MK to 1994 capacity levels. It's truly insane.

Unlike most here I enjoy Mermaid and think it's a perfectly nice people-eater with some fun scenes and AAs. Cloning it from DCA should have been cheaper, but that's WDI for you. And Storybook Circus? The LOLs never stop.

And while you're certainly entitled to like and enjoy what you wish, WDW guests in general will literally like anything. I've been to theme parks the world over and none are as accepting of any scraps thrown at them like WDW guests, probably because they're thrown so little they'll take anything. WDW guests would have liked Tokyo's BATB ride more. They would have liked a longer SDMT with additional show scenes more. They would have liked those godforsaken tents to be removed for a real themed area more.

All that hype, all that money and the resulting NFL product was lackluster to the extreme. It's still packed with people, just like every other lackluster offering at WDW (there are several).

 

[Thanks phoenicians]

I don't think NFL looks bad but it lacks substance and wastes a lot of space. SDMT could've been great before it got cut to one show scene, but as it is I still enjoy it. I enjoy Mermaid but I feel like it looks a little cheap (good queue though) BOG is okay castle not great though. The circus is just not good.

 

[Bocabear]

It certainly is pretty...the queue for Mermai is really amazing... I like the restaurant and SDMT...but yes absolutely.. they should have been able to do more...and more attractions. less M&G...and "circus" never worked for a Disney parks theme...even when Walt did it he realized it was not a good fit. They did a cute job of it, but it just falls short and the amount of space they take up is ridiculous. Tear down the tents and put in a proper attraction... The Tokyo Frozen ride? The Tokyo BATB ride? a newly reimagined Alice ride? all would be better than the circus theme

 

[HauntedPirate]

And while you're certainly entitled to like and enjoy what you wish, WDW guests in general will literally like anything. I've been to theme parks the world over and none are as accepting of any scraps thrown at them like WDW guests, probably because they're thrown so little they'll take anything. WDW guests would have liked Tokyo's BATB ride more. They would have liked a longer SDMT with additional show scenes more. They would have liked those godforsaken tents to be removed for a real themed area more.

All that hype, all that money and the resulting NFL product was lackluster to the extreme. It's still packed with people, just like every other lackluster offering at WDW (there are several).

"They're tourists... Whadda they know?"

I'm genuinely curious why WDI project costs are so incredibly high these days. It just seems ridonkulous that a project which would cost other companies $50 million ends up in the $200-300 million range for Disney (a bit exaggerated, I'm sure, but you all get the point).

 

[wdisney9000]

All that money, and it was still a turd. Incredible, isn't it?

But it is a polished one! * insert fart noise here

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It's not a turd to 99% of the people that visit (and not to me). I know people here can't comprehend that though- the groupthink here is astounding...

It should have been done with 1/2 or 1/3 of the budget though.

We agree. It's not a turd at all as far as we're concerned. Of course, what do we know. We're just pixie dust snorters according to some, regardless of whether I call out TWDC on some of their decisions.

Yes, it definitely should have been done for 1/2 the cost!

 

[LuvtheGoof]

"They're tourists... Whadda they know?"

I'm genuinely curious why WDI project costs are so incredibly high these days. It just seems ridonkulous that a project which would cost other companies $50 million ends up in the $200-300 million range for Disney (a bit exaggerated, I'm sure, but you all get the point).

Actually, I'm genuinely curious if it really costs that much, as the SEC filings don't seem to add up to what people are reporting here - and people go to prison now for falsifying data on them. Not saying they're wrong, but it is weird that the numbers don't seem to line up.

 

[Kman101]

It's not a turd to 99% of the people that visit (and not to me). I know people here can't comprehend that though- the groupthink here is astounding...

It should have been done with 1/2 or 1/3 of the budget though.

No, it's called having a different opinion. They could have done better. A lot of what they did is beautiful and an improvement.

 

[Kman101]

Just curious why some get up in arms that some of us think they could have done better. Why is that considered being overly critical. Some like it, some don't. It's not that serious. LOL

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Just curious why some get up in arms that some of us think they could have done better. Why is that considered being overly critical. Some like it, some don't. It's not that serious. LOL

While I think that everyone absolutely agrees (myself included) that they could have done better- they didn't. But to call the area a turd is disingenuous.

 

[Kman101]

While I think that everyone absolutely agrees (myself included) that they could have done better- they didn't. But to call the area a turd is disingenuous.

Yes, calling it a "turd" is over-exaggerating. It's not. I think they did a beautiful job, but there's some things lacking, and that's disappointing. Does it ruin my visit? Never. I like Mermaid for what it is, but I don't feel as immersed as I want to be. It's a little too plastic. The Beast's castle to me isn't very impressive. The inside is incredible. I don't care for a meet and greet being treated as an E-ticket when the park could have used another ride, and they could have had the meet and greet too. I know they have a budget, and that's a whole 'nother argument about how costs are out of control, but to me it's style without the substance. I just don't know why me saying things like that would get construed as some as bashing or being overly negative (not you; just saying some). Not saying I was called out or anything but I know some would consider all of that bashing and I don't get why. Some are maybe a little too negative most of the time but we all do care.

Maybe I do get overly critical but I don't think most (some probably do but I hope not) of us are sitting around and thinking up ways to bash Disney like some think (not saying you).

We know how much they spent so it wasn't "cheap" but there's obviously places where they probably cut the budget and skimped.

Hope I explained that well ...

 

[Kman101]

SDMT isn't bad, but the rest of it is, and yes, way too expensive. Must be all that magic!

Enchanted Tales and BOG are wastes of space. BOG is obviously a moneymaker, and it's a fine idea, as are enhanced meet-n-greets like ETWB, but not at the expense of actual attractions which the park desperately needs for capacity. They spent all that money and took up all that space to restore the MK to 1994 capacity levels. It's truly insane.

Unlike most here I enjoy Mermaid and think it's a perfectly nice people-eater with some fun scenes and AAs. Cloning it from DCA should have been cheaper, but that's WDI for you. And Storybook Circus? The LOLs never stop.

And while you're certainly entitled to like and enjoy what you wish, WDW guests in general will literally like anything. I've been to theme parks the world over and none are as accepting of any scraps thrown at them like WDW guests, probably because they're thrown so little they'll take anything. WDW guests would have liked Tokyo's BATB ride more. They would have liked a longer SDMT with additional show scenes more. They would have liked those godforsaken tents to be removed for a real themed area more.

All that hype, all that money and the resulting NFL product was lackluster to the extreme. It's still packed with people, just like every other lackluster offering at WDW (there are several).

BOG wasn't a waste of space. The meet and greet was a waste of space that should have been an actual ride.

It's not a turd. They could have done better.

It's interesting you like Mermaid when to me they clearly cheaped out on the inside. Our exterior is fantastic. It's a fine ride but they could have done a lot better.

SDMT, they clearly cut the budget on that one. I like it, but they could have used another show scene and better lighting at night. The show scene we have is great.