A Spirited Perfect Ten

Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
Because there isn't a compelling reason not to.

Shendi needed three things from The Walt Disney Company; their capital, their expertise in designing the park's look and infrastructure, and the "Disneyland" name. At this point, when Shendi already has all three of these things, what useful purpose does it serve for Disney to still be in the picture? There would be no downside for Shendi and the Chinese government's unilaterally, and secretly, changing the nature of their agreement with Disney so that they no longer have to share any operational control decisions with Disney, and they can, if they like, begin gradually cutting back on Disney's ownership take on the profits of the venture. There is no downside to doing this from China's perspective, because Disney has no legal recourse to stop alterations of their agreement with a Chinese state-owned entity, and even if they wanted to Disney's management would appear tremendously weak and foolish for complaining about the position they have found themselves in. It wouldn't be a deterrent to future investment in China because Shendi wouldn't tell anyone, and for different reasons, neither would Disney.
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Oh, but they do. Disney isn't some little never heard of company. It is a world wide brand and is admired by millions of people. Screwing with Disney would, at that point, get world wide attention and thus would definitely influence other smaller companies from taking that chance with them. China might not say anything, but, without a doubt Disney would be a fool not too. China is not without their share of detractors even if they did everything like good little boys and girls. The only way that Disney could weaken that position is if they were to publicly whine about not getting enough attention.

Disney would not seem weak or foolish, what they would seem is victimized by an entire country that they entered in good faith. Disney would have nothing to lose other then a boatload of money. They pay their PR department enough money to spin it in their favor and who is the world going to believe Disney or China. Not everyone has the same negative feeling about Disney that this board tries to maintain.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
hopemax said:
Which is where I'm at too. I expected a scenario like Lee presented, which means there was NEVER going to be a photo op and Cavalcade. Either A. Disney played it right and wouldn't have one or B. Disney played it wrong and China slapped their hands. Which is why it was so hard to follow Spirit going on and on about the lack of photo. The only way anyone should have had a reason to expect one, was if Disney was so perfect in their dealings that China took a very rare step to allow it, which would be the first time this Disney has been so perfect.

The story is not really about "bad China," but "foolish Iger and Co."
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And even then, the only thing that could be interpreted to make Iger look foolish is the narrative that '74 posted in this thread. A narrative that starts off with what convincingly sounds like an "official" itinerary, and then is a series of opinionated bullet points by a) an unknown source (not that we need a name - but who's assumptions are these? is it leaked from official Disney documentation? the notes of some journalist? a reverse-lifestyler?) and that b) apparently was translated according to '74 (presumably from Mandarin, which is extremely subjective as anyone who has read a Chinese product manual in Engrish can tell you).

Up until now, the narrative has been "Iger let himself get whipped by the Chinese! He's a wimp! A bad leader!" That's very different than this current interpretation.

We also don't know at what point that document was created. It could have been a first draft by a know-nothing intern who wrote it like he was going to Paris because they didn't know any better that was then corrected before the trip actually took place. It also could have been the final draft - we have no idea.

'74 has definitely posted some great information about the parks before, and I've always been supportive and appreciative. It's clear that someone(s) do indeed whisper things in his ear, no doubt. But in this case, stringing these events together - a blog opinion piece job by Dan Snyder which was quite obviously taken down due to conflict of interest as he is a member of the Redstone family, but spun as a wild conspiracy that Iger himself interfered - (would they post a hatchet job on Coca-Cola by someone who was a member of the family that runs PepsiCo?), and this lack of pictures - it's someone's anti-Iger narrative. As 74 has referenced his personal campaign against Iger in numerous posts, I just have a hard time thinking this is more than it clearly is.

That said, I take 74 at his word - so since his phone has been ringing off the hook from journalists, I expect he will be posting links to the resulting articles ASAP. If that doesn't happen, I am sure it will be blamed on the almighty and powerful Iger using his vast network to shut the articles down - which is a contradiction in and of itself (he's weak and ineffective yet powerful enough to dictate to every media outlet what stories they should or should not cover).

I don't even think Jim Hill would touch this one, but I'm willing to be wrong should this suddenly become a media firestorm.
 
Bairstow

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
Oh, but they do. Disney isn't some little never heard of company. It is a world wide brand and is admired by millions of people. Screwing with Disney would, at that point, get world wide attention and thus would definitely influence other smaller companies from taking that chance with them. China might not say anything, but, without a doubt Disney would be a fool not too. China is not without their share of detractors even if they did everything like good little boys and girls. The only way that Disney could weaken that position is if they were to publicly whine about not getting enough attention.

Disney would not seem weak or foolish, what they would seem is victimized by an entire country that they entered in good faith. Disney would have nothing to lose other then a boatload of money. They pay their PR department enough money to spin it in their favor and who is the world going to believe Disney or China. Not everyone has the same negative feeling about Disney that this board tries to maintain.
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Again, if indeed China chooses to unilaterally alter the terms of their deal with Disney, Disney corporate management will do everything in their power to hide this from their shareholders and the general public.

Also, as a vast, multibillion-dollar American media titan, I think you're greatly overestimating the general world public's empathy for the Walt Disney Company. After their various scandals and IP suits against musicians and day-care centers, most people would probably get a good chuckle knowing that they had been knocked down a peg.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Agreed, some people are missing the point, I think.

The point isn't that Iger wasn't allowed to do what he wanted. It's that he tried to do it his way in the first place, despite being warned against it, and got shut down.

That's called "fumbling your entry to China."
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And if '74 wants to take up that position now, he can - but he can't pretend that his original message was not the complete opposite in presenting him as a whipping boy who bent over and took it, not that he should have taken it in the first place. The entire point was that he DIDN'T push himself into pics, that he didn't take a leak all over everything to mark his territory - this is why he was a bad leader. Or at least that's what the narrative has been the past weeks, until today.
 
Lee

Lee

Adventurer
AEfx said:
And if '74 wants to take up that position now, he can - but he can't pretend that his original message was not the complete opposite in presenting him as a whipping boy who bent over and took it, not that he should have taken it in the first place. The entire point was that he DIDN'T push himself into pics, that he didn't take a leak all over everything to mark his territory - this is why he was a bad leader. Or at least that's what the narrative has been the past weeks, until today.
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I think it's a little of both, actually.

The narrative I've taken from '74's posts, and he can (and will) correct me if I'm wrong, is that Iger has mishandled the move into China. Much like the article that was pulled (not for any conflict of interest, either) '74 has painted Iger as someone that rushed into a deal with China without fully understanding what he was getting into. The info from last night would appear to bear that out.

The issue about the lack of photos is not that he didn't push himself into some, but that he couldn't. It was to illustrate the sort of restrictions Disney is working under, and to educate the readers here that this isn't like other deals/countries.

I'm seeing all the predictions coming to pass...
 
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PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
And even then, the only thing that could be interpreted to make Iger look foolish is the narrative that '74 posted in this thread. A narrative that starts off with what convincingly sounds like an "official" itinerary, and then is a series of opinionated bullet points by a) an unknown source (not that we need a name - but who's assumptions are these? is it leaked from official Disney documentation? the notes of some journalist? a reverse-lifestyler?) and that b) apparently was translated according to '74 (presumably from Mandarin, which is extremely subjective as anyone who has read a Chinese product manual in Engrish can tell you).

Up until now, the narrative has been "Iger let himself get whipped by the Chinese! He's a wimp! A bad leader!" That's very different than this current interpretation.

We also don't know at what point that document was created. It could have been a first draft by a know-nothing intern who wrote it like he was going to Paris because they didn't know any better that was then corrected before the trip actually took place. It also could have been the final draft - we have no idea.

'74 has definitely posted some great information about the parks before, and I've always been supportive and appreciative. It's clear that someone(s) do indeed whisper things in his ear, no doubt. But in this case, stringing these events together - a blog opinion piece job by Dan Snyder which was quite obviously taken down due to conflict of interest as he is a member of the Redstone family, but spun as a wild conspiracy that Iger himself interfered - (would they post a hatchet job on Coca-Cola by someone who was a member of the family that runs PepsiCo?), and this lack of pictures - it's someone's anti-Iger narrative. As 74 has referenced his personal campaign against Iger in numerous posts, I just have a hard time thinking this is more than it clearly is.

That said, I take 74 at his word - so since his phone has been ringing off the hook from journalists, I expect he will be posting links to the resulting articles ASAP. If that doesn't happen, I am sure it will be blamed on the almighty and powerful Iger using his vast network to shut the articles down - which is a contradiction in and of itself (he's weak and ineffective yet powerful enough to dictate to every media outlet what stories they should or should not cover).

I don't even think Jim Hill would touch this one, but I'm willing to be wrong should this suddenly become a media firestorm.
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Dan Snyder?!?! Youre confusing Redskins and Redstone, methinks ;)

Alas, I think the narrative that is coming forth is that Disney is going about doing things the wrong way as they enter China. (A Cavalcade of Characters? Good Grief.)
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
TP2000 said:
D23 Expo, Anaheim Convention Center, Anaheim, California - August 14th to 16th, 2015
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Possibly only for Disneyland though. One would think with all the recent announcements for Orlando Disney would want to let it be known that Star Wars is definitely coming to DHS with some kick butt concept art, but I'm not getting my hopes up. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, I'm at least prepared for it.
 
gmajew

gmajew

Premium Member
hopemax said:
Just throwing it out there, but how much respect (may not be the right word) does Disney show when they start using an IP? Obviously, they conform to US and International trademark and copyright laws. The proper credit is made in all the small print, licensing fees paid, etc. But look at how PL Travers responded to Mary Poppins. Disney took far more "liberties" with the story than she expected, but as far as Disney's POV, they had the complete freedom to do that.

I'm trying to find the line where "China screws Disney" actually is, do they feel the contract allows them to take liberties with Disney's IP as long as proper payment is made, small print made? And as far as the shareholders and board is concerned...while it might be "embarrassing" for Iger and Co, personally, if the money rolls in...how bad is it? And do we know if China is working to screw Disney out of the money? Or just the credit, especially within China (expected)?
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We don't know anything yet and won't until the parks open and we see Disney as the brand should be or will it look like a cheap knock off.

My guess is China is flexing its muscle and letting Disney know it is their country and will be their way. I don't think they will not let the money roll in to Disney. It will if ithe park makes money.

Right now it is purely China showing they are in charge or so it seams to me.
 
HauntedMansionFLA

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
gmajew said:
We don't know anything yet and won't until the parks open and we see Disney as the brand should be or will it look like a cheap knock off.

My guess is China is flexing its muscle and letting Disney know it is their country and will be their way. I don't think they will not let the money roll in to Disney. It will if ithe park makes money.

Right now it is purely China showing they are in charge or so it seams to me.
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We wish Corporate Disney will be like " we'll show them who has the best theme park " and pour a bunch of money into WDW. We know DHS is hurting but EPCOT has so much potential ( future world ). Wish upon a star.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
Again, if indeed China chooses to unilaterally alter the terms of their deal with Disney, Disney corporate management will do everything in their power to hide this from their shareholders and the general public.

Also, as a vast, multibillion-dollar American media titan, I think you're greatly overestimating the general world public's empathy for the Walt Disney Company. After their various scandals and IP suits against musicians and day-care centers, most people would probably get a good chuckle knowing that they had been knocked down a peg.
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And I feel that if China did do that, it would not be in the best interest of Disney not too spin it that way. Otherwise all that would do would be confirm that they did something stupid. They would cover that with the victim angle and all would be right with the world. I'm not overestimating anything. The public that supports Disney is far more then brand loyalty, it is head over heals emotionally vested. It would create a much bigger backlash then if GM or Ford had the same thing happen to them simply because those companies are big soulless conglomerates. Disney is Walt's place and those emotions are attached to a person and the emotions are real not a company that just sells things that they physically need.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
TalkingHead said:
Any thoughts on The Good Dinosaur teaser trailer? I wasn't sold on the character design.

(And not that it's spelled out in the trailer, but the boy-dino dynamic reminds me a little of How to Train Your Dragon.)
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I like it so far. The opening to the trailer was actually pretty funny (watches comet go by, back to eating). The characters look to have that usual Pixar style to me.
 
AEfx

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
I think it's a little of both, actually.

The narrative I've taken from '74's posts, and he can (and will) correct me if I'm wrong, is that Iger has mishandled the move into China. Much like the article that was pulled (not for any conflict of interest, either) '74 has painted Iger as someone that rushed into a deal with China without fully understanding what he was getting into. The info from last night would appear to bear that out.

The issue about the lack of photos is not that he didn't push himself into some, but that he couldn't. It was to illustrate the sort of restrictions Disney is working under, and to educate the readers here that this isn't like other deals/countries.

I'm seeing all the predictions coming to pass...
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That's not what he has spent weeks arguing, though. It was that the WDC and Iger lost tons of face because he wasn't in every photo op, because he wasn't in the spotlight.

This whole new "he did the right thing for the wrong reasons" has been completely invented in the past 24 hours. And not something I've seen 74 attempt to argue yet, because he full well knows it will contradict weeks of postings about this. 74 strenuously argued in this thread that by not being front and center that he was showing a lack of power and was impotent. That Iger needed to be bold and force himself out there. That it was devastating to the company if he wasn't because he needed to show them who's boss.

The posts are all in this thread, this isn't some misunderstanding on my part.

EDIT: Here is one from just early AM today - after the "big news" post even, before folks started to change the narrative for him:

"What does one thing have to do with the other? The issue is that Disney opened the store with a single representative (who was a last minute philin -- sorry, I had to!) and kept their Big Guns away."

Nothing about what you are saying - that DISNEY made the mistake in NOT being there.

I'm a bit busy at the moment, but if you need more - I'm certain I can get to it later - or someone else can - since all you have to do is scan through and there is post after post.

PhotoDave219 said:
Dan Snyder?!?! Youre confusing Redskins and Redstone, methinks ;)

Alas, I think the narrative that is coming forth is that Disney is going about doing things the wrong way as they enter China. (A Cavalcade of Characters? Good Grief.)
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Sorry, I meant Gary Snyder, the author of the "amazing disappearing article" that 74 has led us to believe was ordered removed by the Great and Powerful Yet Somehow Impotent Iger that was the lynchpin of the narrative until LackOfPhotoGate and this new posting yesterday.

The following is what appeared at the bottom of the opinion piece, which quite obviously was removed due to the conflict of interest and how blatantly vicious those opinions were:

Gary Snyder is a member of the Redstone family, whose company, National Amusements, owns Viacom and CBS, among other media assets. He is an advisor on Western media and culture to China.

But we are supposed to have believed that it wasn't a conflict of interest and it was removed instead because Iger flexed his teeny but super influential muscles.
 
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hopemax

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Agreed, some people are missing the point, I think.

The point isn't that Iger wasn't allowed to do what he wanted. It's that he tried to do it his way in the first place, despite being warned against it, and got shut down.

That's called "fumbling your entry to China."
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I know Spirit sent you the itinerary but the rest of us did not have that critical piece of info to see what Iger and Co's expectations were until last night. Just a lot of hinting and winking. At the time I thought it might because Spirit couldn't post it. But I don't know how many people picked up on the existence of the itinerary. But expecting everyone to just jump on hints was a little much. If we had the itinerary then the reaction would likely have been different. More people would have had an opportunity to grasp the point.
 
SpaceMountain75

SpaceMountain75

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
SW is NOT a sure thing, Stock Repurchases ARE! - Sorry no SW land for you for at least 7 years...
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