A Spirited Perfect Ten

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
That's not what he has spent weeks arguing, though. It was that the WDC and Iger lost tons of face because he wasn't in every photo op, because he wasn't in the spotlight.

This whole new "he did the right thing for the wrong reasons" has been completely invented in the past 24 hours. And not something I've seen 74 attempt to argue yet, because he full well knows it will contradict weeks of postings about this. 74 strenuously argued in this thread that by not being front and center that he was showing a lack of power and was impotent. That Iger needed to be bold and force himself out there. That it was devastating to the company if he wasn't because he needed to show them who's boss.

The posts are all in this thread, this isn't some misunderstanding on my part.





Sorry, I meant Gary Snyder, the author of the "amazing disappearing article" that 74 has led us to believe was ordered removed by the Great and Powerful Yet Somehow Impotent Iger that was the lynchpin of the narrative until LackOfPhotoGate and this new posting yesterday.

The following is what appeared at the bottom of the opinion piece, which quite obviously was removed due to the conflict of interest and how blatantly vicious those opinions were:

Gary Snyder is a member of the Redstone family, whose company, National Amusements, owns Viacom and CBS, among other media assets. He is an advisor on Western media and culture to China.

But we are supposed to have believed that it wasn't a conflict of interest and it was removed instead because Iger flexed his teeny but super influential muscles.

Aside from that ONE photo, we're not in any wire photos (100+) that came from that event.

Which is distinctly unusual for these sorts of things.

I believe that What went down in China was indicative of how China and Disney simply don't understand each other and don't understand the opposing culture.

One simply does not parade down a street with a bunch of Characters like a conquering Army. The things that we're all missing is that all the things on Iger's leaked itinerary? Perfectly normal for Western business and the opening of stores, etc., here in America. That sort of thing clearly did not play whatsoever with Shendi/CCP.

The political dynamic that exists in China is vastly different of that within Wall Street (the almighty dollar is power) as well as the poisoned political environment of Burbank (kill or be killed).

Things can be fixed but its going to take some an ambassador of some kind to negotiate this growing rift.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Yup. Precisely. I politely asked a legitimate question about what exactly he was saying this document was (it begins as an itinerary, and then reads like someone's personal interpretation/opinion of what happened next) and I didn't get an answer either. (I also asked about the translation, because it was said that some of it was, which can have a massive impact as well on how something reads.)

Like yourself, in spite of the fact that I have been very supportive of '74 over the years, I'm suddenly in that "adversary" group as well because I am asking questions and not falling lockstep into the "Iger must go down" agenda. As you outline in the rest of your posting, this need to make people "fans" or "enemies" has the bloom coming off of the rose.

I've done the same as you - and from what I can tell, this is typical for American businesses entering China. China has 1.4 Billion people that we want to legitimately join the global economy. Yes, companies are keeping low profiles and not being trotted out like this is Anaheim because the culture demands it. That's how you get success in China, a foothold. Walking in like the stereotypical "White man here to save you!" American, put-me-in-the-center attitude is NOT going to win long term.

As @lazyboy97o pointed out, the people going "OMG!!!! EPIC!" reading that - I'm not sure what they are reading. Well, I now how they are reading - they are reading from an AMERICAN business perspective and what they would expect to happen in the US. It's wholly naive to think that China can be treated the same way if we want to have our way with them later. I've read it three times, and except for the loaded implication that he was somehow under house arrest at one point (which if you read carefully, is implied, but is actually the reason I am curious about translation as that could make a huge amount of difference).

Basically, it boils down to this: some girls respond to "Hey baby, get in the bedroom and gimmie what I want - you know I love you." Other girls need to be sweet talked, deferred to, wined and dined, made to feel superior to a bumbling man who is just lucky to have a girl like that consider him, and then she decides when he is worthy.

However, the end result is the same - the guy gets what he wants. The only "controversy" here is that as this guys buddies, we all want him to "go in there and git'er done!" to a girl who would kick you to the curb unless you take a more nuanced, respectful approach.

TL;dr

It's a pattern...
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Aside from that ONE photo, we're not in any wire photos (100+) that came from that event.

Which is distinctly unusual for these sorts of things.

I believe that What went down in China was indicative of how China and Disney simply don't understand each other and don't understand the opposing culture.

One simply does not parade down a street with a bunch of Characters like a conquering Army. The things that we're all missing is that all the things on Iger's leaked itinerary? Perfectly normal for Western business and the opening of stores, etc., here in America. That sort of thing clearly did not play whatsoever with Shendi/CCP.

The political dynamic that exists in China is vastly different of that within Wall Street (the almighty dollar is power) as well as the poisoned political environment of Burbank (kill or be killed).

Things can be fixed but its going to take some an ambassador of some kind to negotiate this growing rift.

Absolutely, Dave - that is what I and others were saying to begin with! :)

But 74 sat here for days arguing that they should have flexed their muscles more, that Disney was showing weakness by not being there - he did this up until early today.

The leaked itinerary (and still unsourced commentary) actually proved to be evidence the opposite of what 74 intended. Even if that was the final draft and what was officially in Iger's travel plans, once folks have actually seen it - it does not support his arguments at all. He posted it to say "see, look, they whipped Iger real good and he let them" not "Iger went in there thinking he was gonna be Mr Man and then got put in his place because he should have gone in quietly to begin with".

Come on you guys...he was running this narrative until early am this morning. Post after post after post over the past few weeks - not one saying the mistake was in the planning but that the mistake was in what unfolded publicly and Iger not being in attendance. Are we really all supposed to take a cue from Wikipedia and now say that "Caitlyn Jenner won the man's triathalon at the Olympics" just to stay in lock step?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Absolutely, Dave - that is what I and others were saying to begin with! :)

But 74 sat here for days arguing that they should have flexed their muscles more, that Disney was showing weakness by not being there - he did this up until early today.

The leaked itinerary (and still unsourced commentary) actually proved to be evidence the opposite of what 74 intended. Even if that was the final draft and what was officially in Iger's travel plans, once folks have actually seen it - it does not support his arguments at all. He posted it to say "see, look, they whipped Iger real good and he let them" not "Iger went in there thinking he was gonna be Mr Man and then got put in his place because he should have gone in quietly to begin with".

Come on you guys...he was running this narrative until early am this morning. Post after post after post over the past few weeks - not one saying the mistake was in the planning but that the mistake was in what unfolded publicly and Iger not being in attendance. Are we really all supposed to take a cue from Wikipedia and now say that "Caitlyn Jenner won the man's triathalon at the Olympics" just to stay in lock step?

Like I said, the picture that i feel is being painted here is that things are going horribly awry between Disney and China and that Disney does not know how to enter the Chinese market in a polite, respectful fashion.

Also, I've looked at Theme Park attendance numbers trying to find patterns and look at what each park did from 2013 & 2014 and the overall picture and I'm just not caring about the fighting thats going on here.

My conclusions? Disney doesn't understand how to do business in China. Studios attendance is a dumpster fire.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Like I said, the picture that i feel is being painted here is that things are going horribly awry between Disney and China and that Disney does not know how to enter the Chinese market in a polite, respectful fashion.

OK Dave. If you want to ignore the dozens of postings by 74 that emphatically stated that the problem was that Iger didn't have the balls enough to make sure he was front and center, and arguing against the fact that obviously, entering China is a delicate business and that is why he wasn't, that's your prerogative. "This is their store, they should have been there, they needed to be a presence" over and over and over.

But now, "oh no, he tried to go, but they wouldn't let him because obviously he shouldn't have wanted to go in the first place."

Does making sure we don't offend the creator of a catch-all thread where topics aren't moderated, so we don't have to keep up with a dozen different threads/forums, really worth just completely throwing out the truth of what just happened?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
OK Dave. If you want to ignore the dozens of postings by 74 that emphatically stated that the problem was that Iger didn't have the balls enough to make sure he was front and center, and arguing against the fact that obviously, entering China is a delicate business and that is why he wasn't, that's your prerogative. "This is their store, they should have been there, they needed to be a presence" over and over and over.

But now, "oh no, he tried to go, but they wouldn't let him because obviously he shouldn't have wanted to go in the first place."

Does making sure we don't offend the creator of a catch-all thread where topics aren't moderated, so we don't have to keep up with a dozen different threads/forums, really worth just completely throwing out the truth of what just happened?

The only thing I'm ignoring my laundry. Its taking a life of its own.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Am I the only one who is baffled that too many folks here think you can increase Maelstrom's hourly capacity by "adding more boats"?

You could add 100 extra boats and a mile of extra flume in a new building behind Norway, but if the boats seat 12 passengers and are being dispatched every 40 seconds via the same ride system as they have since 1988, then the hourly capacity is still about 900 riders per hour.

The extra boats and extra flume would only make the ride chronologically longer, not increase the hourly capacity. It's still just 900 per hour, even if they replace the cheesy polar bears with a cheesier Olaf.
Mot goes back and forth because people (including your post) leave out the concept of what is the limiting factor.

If I'm waiting for a boat... In theory adding more boats in the same ride would increase capacity because you are reducing time between dispatches.

If your ride was setup to have excess space between boats ( say for show spacing) you might be able to fit some more dispatches in.

But to do that, means converting wait into a load/unload cycle... And generally the ride would not be setup with that much slack to begin with... So there isn't slack to convert.

The real limiting factor is how quickly you can load and unload a ride vehicle. That is the limiting factor. Run less boats than what you can fill per interval... You are under utilized. Try to run more... And you cascade and lose capacity.

What you and others are saying is correct about more boats or length not helping... Assuming there are no changes to how quickly they can load and unload... And that they were built out to maximize that rate.

The TL;dr.... The ultimate limit on capacity is the minimum dispatch time... If that is fully utilized already... Length or ride vehicles will not change anything.

But you have to be maxed out... Which any Disney design would have likely done from the start - even if not operated that way daily
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I actually can, because the number of boats CAN be the limiting factor under the right set of circumstances. Example: The Living with the Land boat ride during the post-introduction of Fastpass. For awhile, they were running like only 3 boats. Which meant that the dispatch time dropped because when you only have 3 boats and a 15 minute ride cycle, you end up waiting several minutes for a boat to enter the load zone.

But Maelstrom never had a "break" from boats arriving, so it doesn't apply.

And we're talking about maxes... Not how they are operated on some days
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Absolutely, Dave - that is what I and others were saying to begin with! :)

But 74 sat here for days arguing that they should have flexed their muscles more, that Disney was showing weakness by not being there - he did this up until early today.

If that is what you've gotten out of his posts... You really just need to stop posting - you are digging yourself quite a hole....

He was trying to highlight what is MISSING trying to get you to think about WHY. Not arguing Disney needed to do more. Sorry that subtly is lost on you... But you should really try taking a break and reading in hindsight with a clear head. You really need a snickers break.

Now I've been one of the most critical of spirit's posts in the past given multiple factors... And even this latest stuff I'm not taking as gospel or as untwisted ... But at least follow the narrative correctly before going on for pages in some alternate reality
 

DisneyDrum

Well-Known Member
I don't understand the comments saying the Iger didn't want to be part of the opening because of cultural sensitivity. Iger went to China on a week when he was otherwise very busy with the Disneyland 60th - and the argument is that all he was there to do was to have closed door meetings? While the schedule changes are a bit shocking, it's the most likely explanation.

CEO's appear in opening photos in China; ceremony is really important. Iger getting shut out does not bode well for the future. Some quick Google examples...

GM: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...ent/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Sep/0921_china.html
Ford: http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Page...hina with New Assembly Plant in Hangzhou.aspx
Lincoln: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20141106006454/en/Lincoln-Opens-Stores-China-Unveils-“The-Lincoln
Jotun: http://www.norway.cn/News_and_event...ai-Jotuns-first-China-flagship-store-opened-/
Ashley: http://www.furnituretoday.com/article/405078-ashley-furniture-opens-first-china-store-in-shanghai
Junghans: http://www.europastar.com/retail-world/1004084829-junghans-opens-first-store-in-china.html
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
... Which will likely NOT give us any Star Wars announcements,

I dunno. They hinted at it at the last D23 Expo in 2013. And the last two D23 Expo's they didn't say much of anything for Parks & Resorts. And this time there's a new Chairman of Parks & Resorts who will want to say something of substance. I have no insider anything, but my gut tells me this D23 Expo will be like 2009 where they announced a bunch of stuff and showed a bunch of artwork and models. And Disney fans GASPED! and cooed with delight, which still makes me laugh when I watch the YouTube video years later.

Particularly funny, yet ladylike, gasps are found at the 0:40, 0:58 marks here, but the audience reaction to the entire presentation is hysterical. And Jay Rasulo didn't even like the theme parks, and was just invited to leave last week. :rolleyes:


This August at D23, Walt Disney Archives up on the second floor will have the market cornered on Disneyland nostalgia with their big 60th Anniversary archival exhibit. Downstairs in the exhibit halls, the Anaheim Arena, and the Imagineering Pavilion, something tells me they will be talking about the future this time.
 
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Section106

Active Member
What I don't get is the accepted notion that the Chinese gov't would simply take the park from Disney and send them packing. If one of the issues that should be worrying Iger is the anti-corruption campaign being waged then it makes no sense for China to basically steal the amusement park. That would be the most corrupt thing they could do.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
If I'm waiting for a boat... In theory adding more boats in the same ride would increase capacity because you are reducing time between dispatches.

All true. But that assumes that the 1988 Maelstrom ride system was somehow starved for boats for no good reason. That they could have run extra boats and shaved 10 or 15 seconds off the dispatching interval, and thus sped up the loading/unloading of riders. But for some unknown reason they never added the extra boats in 1988, and never got around to it, and for Frozen all they have to do is plop more boats in the flume and flip the dial on the operator console to make the loading station go faster.

Maelstrom was set up with a 40 second dispatch interval for a reason. I can only assume it has to do with the track switches and drop in the ride, which requires a certain spacing between boats for safety.

Unless they gut the entire ride system and rebuild it to cycle boats faster and lower that 40 second dispatch interval the ride has had since 1988, the hourly capacity of 900 per hour won't change much for Frozen. If at all.
 

ItlngrlBella

Well-Known Member
You mean… All the guests? Or just the freeloaders?

I *think* he means these folks:

www.peopleofwalmart.com

The Honey-Boo Boo/Jerry Springer crowd. I'm in the upmost agreement. These are the people that swear and are rude and say things at EPCOT like, "I don't like this place - it's kinda educational. I graduated high school so I'm done with learnin'." No joke, I heard that as we exited Universe of Energy.

I'm also for requiring people to wear deodorant. On hot days at EPCOT and the MK you get to visit many lands, but unfortunately those lands are "the lands of many bodily smells." :facepalm: :depressed:
 
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Phil12

Well-Known Member
Well, it isn't really uncharted territory. Major American companies have been over there since the 90s ... from GM to Pepsi/YUM Brands to Apple to Starbucks. And Viacom blazed the way for American media companies/content producers many years ago.

Disney just doesn't get a grasp of their audiences when they move into another country. TDL was a huge success from Day 1, but no nation (especially at that time) like Japan had such an appetite for American pop culture. This company bungled theme park/resorts openings in Paris and Hong Kong to put things into perspective.

Going into the mainland like they were on top wasn't the way to go; you earn street cred and they had pretty much none in China (the HKDL screwing didn't help, either). After Michael Eisner left, it's a miracle this deal was even made. As much as I can't stand him, I give the credit to Jay Rasulo because he was the only top Burbank exec that the Chinese could tolerate (many actually like him).
Therefore (based upon your own advice) the opening in China was a wonderful success. They're earning their street cred by not acting like they're on top. Iger dutifully remained in the background. I'm surprised you weren't more pleased with Iger's low key entry into China.
 

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