A Spirited Perfect Ten

lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
It wouldn't be "open" theft.
Shendi would allege a lack of cooperation and breach of contract so that any transfer of ownership would be done under color of law. You can bet that Shendi's IP investment would be protected by the regime, but what incentive is there for China to defend Disney's?
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Because the whole world is well aware of Disney's legal department. The city has spent 20 years working on and off with Disney on this project. Such an explosive end would not look good for Shanghai or China.
 
asianway

asianway

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
It wouldn't be "open" theft.
Shendi would allege a lack of cooperation and breach of contract so that any transfer of ownership would be done under color of law. You can bet that Shendi's IP investment would be protected by the regime, but what incentive is there for China to defend Disney's?
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Disney execs not wanting to cooperate with a partner? No...
 
JediMasterMatt

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
mahnamahna101 said:
A fourth theater would be ideal though. Because then the ride is essentially a people-eater. With four theaters coupled with new additions to Future World (not likely), Soarin' might be able to sustain 30-45 min waits during peak times/seasons. Possibly 55-60 min during Christmas and early July.

Frozenstrom is going to be horrid with capacity. Almost seems like TDO is making the ride low-capacity to force people to extend their vacations for a chance to ride it...
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Which is why Soarin' over Pandora *now, with Dragons is getting 4 theaters. I'm still not convinced that will be enough as I haven't seen anything that has made me think the RVs in there are going to have more seats than Soarin'. I'm willing to wager than cycle time for the E will be analogous to the other Disney sims (Soarin/Star Tours/etc). If there is less seating per RV, it may be in the same ballpark as 3 theater Soarin.

On Frozen Pond scares me... unless they figured a way to add more boats and more seating and get rid of the turntables... it's going to be really, really ugly next year. There is only so much that can be done to improve capacity there and Maelstrom's native capacity isn't anywhere near enough for the demand.
 
hopemax

hopemax

Well-Known Member
HenryMystic said:
No offense Spirit, while I find you quite the storyteller, I don't think even you're good enough to come up with that China drama. Yow. ;-)

Oh by the way, TEA numbers were supposed to be released tomorrow (today?) but have suddenly been delayed until Wednesday....
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Here's my thing. I feel like I asked some legitimate questions about typical relations between China and Western business, and my admitted lack of knowledge. Since Spirit has praised some of my posts, I thought perhaps it would show, that even among the "intelligent" that all these *wink* *winks* might be flying over heads. I did spend some time looking for the openings of other Western well-known businesses. Apple, and the most recent one Victoria Secret, and all I was really finding was the same things we're talking about with this Disney stuff. No photos of high ranking executives, hardly any photos at all, nothing in the major US business publications, some talk about how different China is, and so the West has to act in a measured manner, not so big expectations. And I've been wondering about the US media cycle as well. With so much DL 60th, would there even have been room to talk about China? So yes, I was still in "my lack of knowledge, is preventing me from grasping how bizarre all of this is." I got a one word reply by someone "shareholders." That tells me nothing.

Instead, it's a multi-page "man contest" making fun of anyone who didn't bow to the great knowledge of the Spirit. Apparently, there is a lot of history there. But for me, if we're supposed to be challenging everything Disney's PR machine is putting out, you can't expect that challenge light to get turned off, now that we're talking about Spirit. I've been around this block with the RepentantOrc/AnotherVoiceDIS where the "storyteller" takes over, and the bias is coming so thick, that you are beginning to wonder, EVEN WHEN YOU SUPPORT THEM, if they have gotten too far into the feedback loop, and the fish stories are getting a little carried away. It's not productive, and this is why I got out of hanging around and participating in the big picture Disney philosophy talk, in the first place. Everything turned into snotty arguments about internet peeps, not the topic at hand.

Obviously, Spirit had more, and IMO, it would have been far more interesting to have skipped all the forum drama, to get to the meat. In general, I don't question Spirit's sources but if I go on to share them with others, I'd rather go in with more than "some guy, said 'Trust Me' and then went on to take jabs at people he doesn't like." And all that drama, simply derails the conversation further, as was pointed out. If this is SO VERY important, don't get drug into the petty stuff, fight with the information and facts.

So now we've got this photo from Stitch Kingdom that was leaked, and more context about how that wasn't supposed to, and the potential damage it can do. So was that an "error" by someone who didn't know (the fumbling idiot scenario). Or could it have been intentional, by someone who saw an opportunity to damage Iger? That's my question.
 
M

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
JediMasterMatt said:
Which is why Soarin' over Pandora *now, with Dragons is getting 4 theaters. I'm still not convinced that will be enough as I haven't seen anything that has made me think the RVs in there are going to have more seats than Soarin'. I'm willing to wager than cycle time for the E will be analogous to the other Disney sims (Soarin/Star Tours/etc). If there is less seating per RV, it may be in the same ballpark as 3 theater Soarin.

On Frozen Pond scares me... unless they figured a way to add more boats and more seating and get rid of the turntables... it's going to be really, really ugly next year. There is only so much that can be done to improve capacity there and Maelstrom's native capacity isn't anywhere near enough for the demand.
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2,500-3,000/hr... plus the boat should get 2,000-2,500/hr if it's like POTC or IASW... not to mention Kilimanjaro and DINOSAUR are people-eaters that are actually popular (Epcot with its 5 unpopular sit in the corner...)

AK has more interesting things to do so I doubt Soarin' Over Pandora will go much further than 60-70 minutes in terms of wait times. Possibly 90 for the first 1-1.5 yr. But since AK should extend its hours with that, the nighttime safari and the Rivers of Light show, I don't think wait-times will be a problem. Especially if the rumors of the speedbike coaster being back on the table are true.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
You're kind of making my point. If you want to talk about the "environment" in which you dine, pot roast is much more appropriate at Prime Time than NY strip. If the dining plan were the culprit for removing NY strip from Prime Time, then it would have caused the removal of NY strip from all 1-credit TS locations. The fact that it's still available at Sci Fi (and Mama Melrose's) means the dining plan had nothing to do with it.

Neither you nor @PhotoDave219 have been able to answer that question: If the dining plan caused NY strip to be removed from Prime Time, why didn't it cause NY strip to be removed at Sci Fi or Mama Melrose's?
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I ned historical menus to prove my point. Nobody has those.

It went from NY Strip to Sirloin to something else and then Pot Roast. It went downhill.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
I'm not saying "what's the difference between pot roast and NY strip," I'm saying "what's the difference between NY strip at Prime Time and NY strip at Sci Fi?" You can still get a NY strip at DHS in post-DDP world (it's on the current Sci Fi menu) so I reject your premise that DDP has killed all the good choices.
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I spent all night looking at 2014 crowd data..... sorry Im not on your DP schedule.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
asianway said:
Disney execs not wanting to cooperate with a partner? No...
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Another highly plausible reason for the "sudden" change of plans. Disney hoping that if they just show up they can go ahead and do a far bigger event than planned is a fitting and simpler narrative than a lot of weird tossing about that nobody can explain beyond "because."
 
Bairstow

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Because the whole world is well aware of Disney's legal department. The city has spent 20 years working on and off with Disney on this project. Such an explosive end would not look good for Shanghai or China.
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Disney's legal department wouldn't do a thing. For one, it would be an exercise in futility. For another, admitting that Shendi was changing the terms of the agreement would be too much of an admission of fecklessness on Disney's part to ever admit it openly. They would likely conceal whatever happened from their shareholders for as long as possible, and not risk further offending China and jeapordize their film revenue over there. No one would find out until the management involved had long since retired.
 
michmousefan

michmousefan

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
Frankly, I KNOW the answer to this one, so let's leave it and see what y'all are talking about because I don't think Corden has a new show on The Les Moonves Network.
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Will not be fun to be Corden's producers for the next 3.5 months... tough to compete when you have The Mentalist (seriously, CBS?) as a lead-in.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
Well, it wouldn't take much of a journalist to take on this story and verify it, if it is verifiable. I'm not saying it isn't, but, the thing that even "Spirit" seems to lose sight of is that this is a concern to about a handful of his followers and no one else. There is so much going on in the world, such as people being burnt alive or beheaded by terrorists, earthquakes, volcano's, climate change, wars in the middle east, and most of all Bruce Jenners transformation to Caitlyn.

It is only news worthy to those close to it, and there are incredible numbers of contradicting predictions and degrees of concerns. What most news organizations understand that seems to miss most of this discussion is that they cannot make opinionated news. They cannot, like us, go on line and spew forth massive amounts of mental diarrhea. No Chinese official, for example, is going to go all verbal about whatever is happening in China unless they are tired of breathing. All the speculation of ruin for both Iger and Disney are just that speculation. Anyone that has the ability to actually see into the future would be very much in demand by the public.

So with all this intelligent conversation and facts(?), there is no story there and there will never be one that is anymore believable then everything else we have read. If they broke the headline tomorrow in the New York Times... "BOB IGER SCREWS UP IN CHINA" the initial reaction of the vast majority of the U.S. public would be... 'Bob who? And what do we care about what Bob does in China?' It basically has a limited amount of public concern and since speculation is big around here, I'd have to say less then 1% of the public gives a tinkers damn.
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Sir, I think we're talking about Business1, not A1 of the paper.

I think most of America has a maliase about anything that doesn't effect them right this given moment.
 
The Tuna

The Tuna

Well-Known Member
HenryMystic said:
The thing is, this is a $5B US investment in China by one of our biggest media conglomerates. My mind has been running wild with the implications since I read that post last night. What protects Disney from China seizing complete control once the park is complete and the staff is trained? What guarantees that Disney sees a dime from this? These are honest questions as international relations and law are not my forte.

Everything could work out great and this is all moot, but then again...

If nothing else, the discussion is interesting.
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Finally we will get Castle Turrets filled with nukes just like we were promised in Florida!!!!
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
...except the park itself.
Shendi Group could have 100% of the profits, and more importantly the Party would have full control of the park's intellectual and ideological message. The better question is, if Shendi is still confident in the park's success, why wouldn't they take it?
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Excellent question.

Now how's life going to be when it comes time to who gets to run this Park and how thats done?
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
Disney's legal department wouldn't do a thing. For one, it would be an exercise in futility. For another, admitting that Shendi was changing the terms of the agreement would be too much of an admission of fecklessness on Disney's part to ever admit it openly. They would likely conceal whatever happened from their shareholders for as long as possible, and not risk further offending China and jeapordize their film revenue over there. No one would find out until the management involved had long since retired.
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Except that just Disney abandoning a park would be huge news. That would be enough to shock people. What nobody seems able to answer is why Shanghai would toss away two decades of work? Why they are waiting instead of just acting now? What is the gain in having an opening and then ditching the namesake of the park? Why is that better done then over now when the plans have been done? This is all just silly, wily speculation because people never want a "mystery" to have a mundane explanation.
 

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