A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Cesar R M]

I'm not defending the way P&R has been run (into the ground) the past 15 years or so, but it us my understanding Potter to UO was not a matter of TWDC passing on Potter but rather JKR and WB passing on TWDC.

I believe the "official" narrative from insiders was Disney had presented her essentially a stand-alone "greatest hits" dark ride with no themed land, wanted to retain creative control and that JKR wasn't comfortable with possibly seeing Mickey/HP fusion merch, so she reached out to UO for a proposal.

UO promised her complete creative control and detailed, immersive lands to house the attractions.

The choice was obvious for her, and that's not even counting the financial component of the propsals (which as far as I know, aren't known).

You can fairly call Disney's alleged proposal lacking in scope or vision. To be honest, I wasn't sure the HP brand had achieved evergreen IP status enough to support more than a single attraction in the General population at the time, as well (and I say that as a fan of the franchise). I think few people truly knew tourists would line up to buy $30 resin sticks.

But to suggest Disney walked away and "passed" on Potter is not only unfair, it's incorrect.

I'm pretty sure that HP would have had the Frozen treatment.
a crappy rehash of an older ride and Iger will call it a day.
Rowling was smart.

 

[Rasvar]

You can fairly call Disney's alleged proposal lacking in scope or vision. To be honest, I wasn't sure the HP brand had achieved evergreen IP status enough to support more than a single attraction in the General population at the time, as well (and I say that as a fan of the franchise). I think few people truly knew tourists would line up to buy $30 resin sticks.

But to suggest Disney walked away and "passed" on Potter is not only unfair, it's incorrect.

I'm not sure that it matters if Disney passed on it or not. It is actually more embarrassing that the lacked the scope and/or vision to put forward a quality proposal. Just look at the majority of projects that occurred during that period. Not quite as bad as Superstar Limo but a lot of them weren't a huge jump better. The fact that Disney couldn't put forward a really creative idea for a project that had room for so much creativity just shows the lack of vision and leadership that was embedded in the culture at the time. It would have been better if they had really passed on it and walked away instead of being shown to be chumps.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Lots of Alcodollars for Drunkytown.

Since we're going to rip on F&W for serving alcohol, can we at least agree that parents need to keep their children out of bars?

I mean, I don't drink in their daycare center. Can they extend the same courtsey?

 

[sshindel]

Thanks @sshindel, It looks like Lucas is doing more than I gave him credit for. I've just seen too many so called celebrity charities be nothing more than window dressing.

I know that some charities can be more window dressing than anything. I knew George had been doing a lot of donating around Chicago lately, so I did a quick Google to see how the rest of his track record was. He's one of the good guys.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I'm not defending the way P&R has been run (into the ground) the past 15 years or so, but it us my understanding Potter to UO was not a matter of TWDC passing on Potter but rather JKR and WB passing on TWDC.

I believe the "official" narrative from insiders was Disney had presented her essentially a stand-alone "greatest hits" dark ride with no themed land, wanted to retain creative control and that JKR wasn't comfortable with possibly seeing Mickey/HP fusion merch, so she reached out to UO for a proposal.

UO promised her complete creative control and detailed, immersive lands to house the attractions.

The choice was obvious for her, and that's not even counting the financial component of the propsals (which as far as I know, aren't known).

You can fairly call Disney's alleged proposal lacking in scope or vision. To be honest, I wasn't sure the HP brand had achieved evergreen IP status enough to support more than a single attraction in the General population at the time, as well (and I say that as a fan of the franchise). I think few people truly knew tourists would line up to buy $30 resin sticks.

But to suggest Disney walked away and "passed" on Potter is not only unfair, it's incorrect.

Disney's pitch to Rowling was, at best, minimal; a cheap budget in the worst traditions of Rasulo's 8 years as head of Parks & Resorts. (Think Toy Story Mania, whose entire cost amounted to little more than a rounding error in Parks & Resorts massive budget.)

When Rowling wanted to retain creative control and thought an immersive land would be more successful, Disney pushed back and basically told her to take a hike. She stormed out and pitched the idea to Universal, who could not believe their good fortune. I know some folks at Universal who called Disney executives "idiots".

Rowling was right. Disney was wrong.

It demonstrated just how bad Disney management's judgement was when it came to Parks & Resorts and how the "We're Disney" attitude under Rasulo cost Disney a huge windfall.

After Disney had its head handed to it on a platter, Iger's knee-jerk reaction was to give the equally demanding Cameron essentially everything Rowling wanted but for the inferior (for children) Avatar property.

No matter how you want to slice-and-dice it, the whole sorry episode was an epic fail by Disney management.

 

[drew81]

Disney's pitch to Rowling was, at best, minimal; a cheap budget in the worst traditions of Rasulo's 8 years as head of Parks & Resorts. (Think Toy Story Mania, whose entire cost amounted to little more than a rounding error in Parks & Resorts massive budget.)

When Rowling wanted to retain creative control and thought an immersive land would be more successful, Disney pushed back and basically told her to take a hike. She stormed out and pitched the idea to Universal, who could not believe their good fortune. I know some folks at Universal who called Disney executives "idiots".

Rowling was right. Disney was wrong.

It demonstrated just how bad Disney management's judgement was when it came to Parks & Resorts and how the "We're Disney" attitude under Rasulo cost Disney a huge windfall.

After Disney had its head handed to it on a platter, Iger's knee-jerk reaction was to give the equally demanding Cameron essentially everything Rowling wanted but for the inferior (for children) Avatar property.

No matter how you want to slice-and-dice it, the whole sorry episode was an epic fall by Disney management.

"Idiots" is putting it lightly.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Prequels were okay in concept, the problem was in the execution.
Hell, even Lucas himself has admitted that he's more a visuals and broad ideas guy then a writer. He actually wanted other people to get involved in directing the prequels (Spielberg, Zemeckis, Chris Columbus), but they all kept telling him to do it himself.

I agree, that is why I can't believe Disney threw out Lucas's concept.
Rumor was Lucas was concentrating more on new cast members and Disney wanted more of the old trilogy to be more prominent. But that doesn't mean you throw out his entire treatment.

Unless Disney needed a way to bring back Darth Vader, Palpatine

Except Lucas was never exactly used to write full stories, nor books.
He used to direct and create visual things (just like Spielberg), both created their own groups of special effects.
I would say that both are VISUAL visionaries, not writers in the way you claim Lucas is.

Lucas wrote the original trilogy story and screenplay with the help of Kasdan. Yes he wrote Empire and should have had credit on screenplay. That history is everywhere.
Speilberg wrote Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

No, these guys didn't write books, they did't write poems, or songs. They did write stories designed for cinema.
Lucas isn't the best writer, but he did write these stories...and even he not being the best writer at one point in his career came up with some cool stories. Empire strikes back being one.

So I'm not claiming Lucas is a writer of books...not sure where you are getting that. He did write stories for cinema.
Where am I wrong?

 

[DisDan]

Disney's pitch to Rowling was, at best, minimal; a cheap budget in the worst traditions of Rasulo's 8 years as head of Parks & Resorts. (Think Toy Story Mania, whose entire cost amounted to little more than a rounding error in Parks & Resorts massive budget.)

When Rowling wanted to retain creative control and thought an immersive land would be more successful, Disney pushed back and basically told her to take a hike. She stormed out and pitched the idea to Universal, who could not believe their good fortune. I know some folks at Universal who called Disney executives "idiots".

Rowling was right. Disney was wrong.

It demonstrated just how bad Disney management's judgement was when it came to Parks & Resorts and how the "We're Disney" attitude under Rasulo cost Disney a huge windfall.

After Disney had its head handed to it on a platter, Iger's knee-jerk reaction was to give the equally demanding Cameron essentially everything Rowling wanted but for the inferior (for children) Avatar property.

No matter how you want to slice-and-dice it, the whole sorry episode was an epic fall by Disney management.

I did not know the history behind all this and I had no idea about how the events, when Potter was first pitched to Disney, went down. But this, more than anything I've discovered lately about Disney really just puts me in a bad mood. The sheer ineptitude of that whole situation just feels so deflating. I used to think pretty highly of Disney Imagineering and their Creativity. But ever since I started reading these boards I have sort of started getting this bad taste in my mouth towards Disney. Not really sure I can ever see Disney the same way. I really hope all the rumored expansions and current projects are really a huge success and knock it out of the park. For that might restore some of the faith I've recently lost in Disney.

/rant sorry

 

[tribbleorlfl]

Disney's pitch to Rowling was, at best, minimal; a cheap budget in the worst traditions of Rasulo's 8 years as head of Parks & Resorts. (Think Toy Story Mania, whose entire cost amounted to little more than a rounding error in Parks & Resorts massive budget.)

When Rowling wanted to retain creative control and thought an immersive land would be more successful, Disney pushed back and basically told her to take a hike. She stormed out and pitched the idea to Universal, who could not believe their good fortune. I know some folks at Universal who called Disney executives "idiots".

Rowling was right. Disney was wrong.

It demonstrated just how bad Disney management's judgement was when it came to Parks & Resorts and how the "We're Disney" attitude under Rasulo cost Disney a huge windfall.

After Disney had its head handed to it on a platter, Iger's knee-jerk reaction was to give the equally demanding Cameron essentially everything Rowling wanted but for the inferior (for children) Avatar property.

No matter how you want to slice-and-dice it, the whole sorry episode was an epic fall by Disney management.

Not disagreeing with any of this, especially the irony that Disney's hubris prevented them from giving JKR input and oversight of the proposed project yet are practically giving Cameron the reigns on Avatar (a much inferior IP). I was simply responding to your contention they "passed" on Potter (even if their alleged proposal yielded the same outcome).

Yes, Uni was certainly fortunate as those were dark times for the resort. GE had no idea how to run a theme park, and UO was everything WDW is now (poor EE morale, dearth of new attractions, spotty maintenance record). I attribute the success of WWoHP squarely on the shoulders of JKR's uncompromising vision for her characters.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Not disagreeing with any of this, especially the irony that Disney's hubris prevented them from giving JKR input and oversight of the proposed project yet are practically giving Cameron the reigns on Avatar (a much inferior IP). I was simply responding to your contention they "passed" on Potter (even if their alleged proposal yielded the same outcome).

If I offer to buy your brand-new Mercedes for $10K, does that count as a "pass"?

 

[lebeau]

The best thing for WDW right now might be for Iger to spend a week as a front-line Cast Member at WDW, and then a week as a 'Guest' staying at a Value Resort with his family. (I'd love to see Iger crammed into a tiny Value Resort room with grandchildren. )

Say what you will about him but Iger is a smart guy.

He just might realize, "Hey, our Walt Disney World product is not up to Disney standards."

It's never going to happen though. Iger is not that kind of manager.

Do you think the phrase "Disney standards" ever enters Iger's mind? I have my doubts.

 

[flyerjab]

In George Lucas's defense, its his vision and to see your vision as an director, producer, etc not go as the way you wish it to go. It hurts. The films were like his kids. Star Wars is his baby. To see other people's influences and suggestions outweighing his is probably a pain and probably feels like a betrayal.

Like you are leading a project you think is great yet all of a sudden, it gets snatched away from you and the original focus and vision isn't present. I'm sure most people would feel hurt and later dislike and feel disdain for the project even if it came out better than what it originally would be because its no longer yours in a way.

I don't think that snatched is the correct term to use here. That implies that Disney figured out some way to take the Star Wars franchise from Lucas and he was powerless to stop it. He wanted to 'retire' from the franchise and agreed to terms with Disney to sell it to them.

If he is not happy with how it turned out that is his issue to deal with. He should have demanded final say on decisions or said no to the deal if he now finds himself sulking about how this turned out. If he has any vineyards growing at Skywalker Ranch I would say the crop of grapes is turning up sour this year.

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm pretty sure that HP would have had the Frozen treatment.
a crappy rehash of an older ride and Iger will call it a day.
Rowling was smart.

No question about that she is one smart lady, I believe Hermione was her alter ego in the books and Prof McGonagall was the teacher who had the most influence on her a very strict but fair educator who genuinely cared about her students. Just supposition on my part however.

 

[ford91exploder]

Do you think the phrase "Disney standards" ever enters Iger's mind? I have my doubts.

I'm actually SURE they do as to how can I use them as a cloak while removing all the elements which made Disney, Disney.

 

[ford91exploder]

I did not know the history behind all this and I had no idea about how the events, when Potter was first pitched to Disney, went down. But this, more than anything I've discovered lately about Disney really just puts me in a bad mood. The sheer ineptitude of that whole situation just feels so deflating. I used to think pretty highly of Disney Imagineering and their Creativity. But ever since I started reading these boards I have sort of started getting this bad taste in my mouth towards Disney. Not really sure I can ever see Disney the same way. I really hope all the rumored expansions and current projects are really a huge success and knock it out of the park. For that might restore some of the faith I've recently lost in Disney.

/rant sorry

That's how a lot of us feel these days, All the good stuff is being sucked out of Disney for the sake of short term profit.

 

[lebeau]

Looks like we are getting a high end Fan Film from Disney in regards to Star Wars.
Disney has elected not to use George Lucas Story treatments.
I think this is a mistake. I would have liked to see Lucas vision come to life and complete his story from 1-9.
Disney had other ideas.
We will always wonder what Lucas story would have been like. Hopefully the 50 page treatment will surface.
Yes he wrote Phantom but he also wrote Empire and Raiders.

I always felt Lucas was a strong idea guy but lost his touch directing and screen writing as the years went on.
Prequels had a solid story but needed work.
Disappointed though that we won't see Story by: George Lucas on Ep. 7.

Here are Lucas’s comments, which me made to CinemaBlend in a recent interview:

“The ones that I sold to Disney, they came up to the decision that they didn’t really want to do those. So they made up their own. So it’s not the ones that I originally wrote [for Star Wars: The Force Awakens].”

The idea that Lucas ever had some grand plan for the Star Wars series is a myth. He had some notes. Just look at the prequels and how poorly they line up with the original trilogy. Lucas had from 1983-1999 to perfect his story, but he never did. In fact he completely changed Anakin's reason for switching to the Dark Side (the focal point of the prequel trilogy) AFTER he finished filming. He dropped subplots set up in Attack of the Clones because he realized he just didn't have room to deal with them.

We're not being cheated out of some grand design here. Lucas didn't have this stuff mapped out no matter what he might say.

 

[tribbleorlfl]

If I offer to buy your brand-new Mercedes for $10K, does that count as a "pass"?

Are you offering?! Been looking at upgrading from my 8 year-old Prius!

 

[Cesar R M]

Where am I wrong?

The part where you compared Rowling with Lucas.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not disagreeing with any of this, especially the irony that Disney's hubris prevented them from giving JKR input and oversight of the proposed project yet are practically giving Cameron the reigns on Avatar (a much inferior IP). I was simply responding to your contention they "passed" on Potter (even if their alleged proposal yielded the same outcome).

Yes, Uni was certainly fortunate as those were dark times for the resort. GE had no idea how to run a theme park, and UO was everything WDW is now (poor EE morale, dearth of new attractions, spotty maintenance record). I attribute the success of WWoHP squarely on the shoulders of JKR's uncompromising vision for her characters.

Disney did pass. They were more humoring the eccentric Rowling with a "take it or leave it" approach. It's like a kid doing a chore poorly so that they are just dismissed from it.

 

[CinematicFusion]

The part where you compared Rowling with Lucas.

He created star wars....comparison valid.