A Spirited Perfect Ten

[PhotoDave219]

So this got me thinking about name calling. Just for shiggles I went back just 5 pages and pulled post that labeled a group in what could be considered a disparaging remarks on both sides of the fence. I really only tried to include remarks specifically about a tangible person or groups of people that would probably be interested in posting. I also tried to pull both sides and didn't pull any self-referential post (i.e., I'm a Pixie Duster or D&G).

The results were interesting. on 4 out of the 5 pages people or groups of people are referred to negatively just for essentially having a different set of preferences (that being WDW in it's current state rather than the past). The middle two are especially interesting as it refers to current guest as savages and vagrants.






Just something to consider when posting.

EDIT: In the interest of equivalence, if I missed any that was negligence on my part and feel free to respond with them. I started on page 425.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, I'm making no claims that I've not lobbed a few out there in my day. This was solely an attempt to put some metrics around an interesting issue in forum discourse.

Yeah, I instigated that. People ran with it.

 

[Cesar R M]

I don't go around acting like an immature middle schooler.

more ironic posts from your part peter?
its getting old you know.

For someone who likes to point at fingers, you sure trying your best to look like Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

When did I ever say I didn't find enjoyment in this thread? I never said that. I was pointing out an ironic somewhat hypocritical statement.

The problem with this thread and many of our forum posters here these days is that they don't want to hear opposing viewpoints. There is no debate. They simply attempt to silence anyone that opposes their view. They tell them they shouldn't be here or come up with rude names and memes in an attempt to make them uncomfortable so they'll leave.

You mean just people shout "DISNEY IS A BUSINESS" to shut down any response and claim they won the discussion?

the issue goes both ways dude.
Its not an exclusive of the supposed "doom and gloom" camp.

 

[Cesar R M]

Have they shut the grass down already?

"Coming soon... grassopocalypse".. a Michael Bay movie.

 

[Cesar R M]

On the cost reduction front I've frequently wondered why WDW has not deployed robotic bartenders they are now cheap enough starting about 25,000 for a unit which makes 600 drinks including most of the Tiki Bar drinks. Many Vegas hotels use similar systems you can vastly increase margins because 'Just Enough' liquor and mixers are used plus you can replace a bartender making good money with a minimum wage CM.

http://smartbarusa.com/demo

I was kind of expecting TS to have a robot bar tender to save on labor cost.

I dont know ford, I've heard nightmares of the Quantum of the Seas, where the machinery and "great technology" failed many times and caused visitors to have nightmare cruises.
I heard this first hand from my Doctor who took a trip in the Quantum last december.

I'd rather have the trees than projections, but that's just me...

I actually wonder.. do the projections explicitly needs to be on the castle?

WOC and ROL will have projections on the water.. so does FANTASMIC.
FANTASMIC in Asia uses big balloons and giant towered water canons.

 

[jakeman]

Yeah, I instigated that. People ran with it.

Wasn't worried about that. Seemed like a normal sequence around here.

 

[Cesar R M]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site. You're reaching soooooooo hard to find criticisim of the hub that you're just making things up now. Bloodborne pathogens? Really? Why is a kid more likely to hurt himself on concrete amidst fake grass rather than concrete amidst real grass or concrete by itself or stone or brick or tile or dirt or asphalt or...

I think Disney hurts wallets way faster than a kid scraps their knees.
And if someone is really that paranoic regarding pathogens.. they really should stay at home in a purified environment.
Pretty sure they get exposed to more pathogens in the bathrooms or Restaurants than on fake turf.

The new hub design can not prevent an accident nor would it be any more safe if a stampede broke out. The purpose of the new hub is to allow MORE people in than previous. The wider walkways would technically allow for more people to possibly bulldoze over the kids passed out in their stroller.

Do you really believe a wider walkway will cause people to be more civil and calm in the event of a panic?

Also consider the bottleneck effect that would occur at MSUSA. Once all those people got passed the hub they still have to get to the exit so now you have more people than ever slamming into Main Street. Im sure the new hub will come flying in with a cape on its back and save the day! Super Hub to the rescue!

next on the hub.. speedbumps for strollers every 5 meters.. lol!

 

[stevehousse]

So I haven't heard of it talked about here, but what does everyone think of Uni's new metal detector to get on a ride procedure that is happening at rip rock it coaster? It's said to be expanded to more rides and is currently testing. This sounds utterly ridiculous to me! I know they have a weird strict policy about not bringing anything on rides with you, but this is to the extreme!!! No thanks Uni...

 

[peter11435]

Didn't answer the question. Who are you?

Who are you?

It doesn't matter who you are or who I am.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Most WDW fans have a relatively low expectations for what constitues a successful trip. So long as they get to go on their favourite ride, eat their favourite treat and get their key family photo, they don't care about the little stuff like the hub makeover, price increases or what goes on at the Poly. Heck, I'm betting most wouldn't be too upset if the Poly was leveled altogether and replaced with Art of Animation 2.0 since it wouldn't "affect" them and it's still something Disney® related.

It's why you're far more likely to see complaints about Pirates of the Caribbean closing for the summer or the hat coming down than any kind of major design or operational change.

Unfortunately, this is very much true these days. I don't know if "low expectations" is the right word for it as most of WDW's visitors may not have any hands on experience with the high standards the resort once delivered. It's only those of us that have repeated business with the resort that can rightfully lower our expectations based on our previous experiences.

I think the more appropriate phrase for the situation that TDO is capitalizing on now is "the Emperor's New Clothes" syndrome.

Everyone expects WDW to deliver world class service and standards because of their legacy, so it's hard to look past those preconceived expectations and see the harsh reality - the resort isn't wearing anything other than Magic Bands these days.

Burbank knows this and they are capitalizing (by not making capitalized investments) on relying on the WDW legacy to keep drawing people to the resort. The sad truth is who can blame them... it's been working as people are still coming. Eventually, what they haven't sown will eventually be time to reaped and an entire generation will have a new lowered definition of what WDW really stands for now. *Anecdotally - an employee of mine just returned from WDW today and is telling tales of woe compared to their last visit 10 years ago.

Oh, and regarding complaints about Pirates being down all summer - the true believers among us are only going to complain that it didn't go down sooner and won't be closed longer to get the refurbishment it deserves. Instead, it will likely reopen with a reworked drop and lift and hardly any change to the broken effects.

There is nothing 'dim' about opt'ing to have reserved seating vs having to spend time and effort to camp out for the view you want. If you think that FP was better used elsewhere.. is your own personal preference.

Given the option of 'please park part of your group here for 45 minutes' or 'please take a spot and be here 15mins early' - I know which one is less of a PITA.

First off, I hope you understand that the "dim" reference was simply quoting the person before me. Even though, I think that would be a good way to classify anyone that would select a Wishes or IllumiNations FP+ as one of their 3 choices at 60 days out as making the wrong decision if they were going to be in the park the entire day. For your pre-reserved FP+'s, you could find better options. Already used your allotment for the day, it's not a bad option if you like the location that is available for FP.

Using your analogy of 45 min vs. 15 min, it's important to put that "benefit" in context of what has to be given up to have that gain. For you to select a FP+ for let's say Wishes, that means that FP+ was added to most every attraction in the entire park. That 30 minutes you "saved" by being able to walk into a cattle pen for Wishes was most definitely added as additional time in line for any attraction you got into Stand-by for that day because each of those attractions got FP+ added to them as well.

Let's say you didn't do any Stand-by at all during that day. Well, all of those people that have a 1 hour window for their FP+'s for attractions that start during the time Wishes is going to go off, they are also going to stop and watch those fireworks knowing their place in virtual line is secure. When show is over, the flock to their attraction. Only now with FP+, every attraction has people returning. With FP+, there are less people in the lines and more people in the streets for the shows. If you want to watch a new sport at WDW, watch people trying to fight to get to the FP+ check in points before and during the shows. You have people with a valid pass trying to get in and you have many people without asking why there is all that empty space. Some of the best arguments with Cast Members happen during this time. It was great entertainment during the Frozen lighting ceremony last year.

Of course, who is to say that if FP+ was taken off the table AND the Hub got the same refurb, you couldn't have walked to the same spot 15 minutes before showtime because there is more space available and more people would've been in Stand-by lines?

For me, I think it's important to remember what you are giving up to get something in return. An easy way to be reminded of this is to recall it anytime you see a line at Imagination - which is quite common now.

The cardinal rule with FastPass has and always will be... if everything is Fast, then nothing is.

 

[peter11435]

You mean just people shout "DISNEY IS A BUSINESS" to shut down any response and claim they won the discussion?.

Except when people say disney is a business they are stating a fact and not resorting to bullying, harassment, and name calling.

 

[Cesar R M]

While true, there's got to be some reason Universal has decided to outsource managment. Hotels aren't the highest margin playing field. For example their partner Loews Hotels and Resorts reported 4.4% operating margins. They operate exclusively luxury hotels. Disney operates a wide variety of hotels at differing price points down to the mid 100s. It seems reasonable to assume that Disney could be being dragged down by their hotel operations especially because as the 90s progressed they added more rooms. Also many of those rooms have apparently been empty...

That could hurt margins too.

Well, these rooms are probably being moved to DVC.
It has happened before and its still happening everywhere.

 

[jakeman]

Except when people say disney is a business they are stating a fact and not resorting to bullying, harassment, and name calling.

However, that can't just be a catchall to explain all manner of decision, especially when some of the decision even from a business perspective seem to not make sense (Adventureland Verandah being shutters for 4 presidents for one).

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm not making a commentary on that. I'm just trying to find the cause of Universal's significantly higher margins then Disney. Some could say that it's operational. I'm sure that could be part of it, but only half of the story. What's the biggest difference between Universal Orlando and Disney World? The hotels.

Also size. I'm not sure if there are operational inefficiencies on that front. That's beyond my limited abilities of understanding. Update: Now that I've thought about it, Disney still was reporting much higher margins into the late 1990s. This shows that having multiple parks operating does not limit its ability to scale upwards.

Universal has in the past five years heavily embraced experience integrated retail and dining while Disney has discarded that approach.

 

[spacemt354]

So this got me thinking about name calling. Just for shiggles I went back just 5 pages and pulled post that labeled a group in what could be considered a disparaging remarks on both sides of the fence. I really only tried to include remarks specifically about a tangible person or groups of people that would probably be interested in posting. I also tried to pull both sides and didn't pull any self-referential post (i.e., I'm a Pixie Duster or D&G).

The results were interesting. on 4 out of the 5 pages people or groups of people are referred to negatively just for essentially having a different set of preferences (that being WDW in it's current state rather than the past). The middle two are especially interesting as it refers to current guest as savages and vagrants.






Just something to consider when posting.

EDIT: In the interest of equivalence, if I missed any that was negligence on my part and feel free to respond with them. I started on page 425.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, I'm making no claims that I've not lobbed a few out there in my day. This was solely an attempt to put some metrics around an interesting issue in forum discourse.

I think the real issue is some people are too concerned with how others view the world and some people can't take any criticism without resorting to childish behavior.

There's fault on both sides. If you go to a restaurant once and they serve bad food, it's not your fault. But if you go back to the restaurant again and again, expecting a different result, that's your fault.

The same analogy can be applied here. People who post long dissertations about how people here are too negative, yet continually come back and complain, are at fault because they should know better.

On the flip side, people should be mature enough to respect a different opinion without resorting to name-calling and bullying. If someone comes to your restaurant and has a crticism about your food, are you going to call them names and tell them to leave? You're not going to be in business with that attitude for very long. It's also just not polite.

But finding a unicorn with a four leaf clover is probably more likely than finding reason in an Internet fan forum...

 

[PhotoDave219]

Who are you?

It doesn't matter who you are or who I am.

I'm the devil that dances in the pale moon light.

 

[jakeman]

I think the real issue is some people are too concerned with how others view the world and some people can't take any criticism without resorting to childish behavior.

That's apparent on both sides of the fence.

 

[flynnibus]

First off, I hope you understand that the "dim" reference was simply quoting the person before me. Even though, I think that would be a good way to classify anyone that would select a Wishes or IllumiNations FP+ as one of their 3 choices at 60 days out as making the wrong decision if they were going to be in the park the entire day. For your pre-reserved FP+'s, you could find better options. Already used your allotment for the day, it's not a bad option if you like the location that is available for FP.

Obviously it doesn't matter if its someone else's term.. as you just again confirmed your support for using it.

The problem with the rest of your justification is your predisposed notion that FP+ is a precious commodity that must be protected and maximized. This is the same mindset that dictated you tour the parks in a certain manner to ensure you got the maximum number of fastpasses. That is certainly a way to look at things - but it doesn't mean everyone must be motivated that same way.

For others a FP+ reservation like this simply is a way of removing uncertainty. You know what you will get.. and you don't have to worry about it. It's not just about "maximizing return" as you emphasized. It becomes a simple security blanket.. and your return is the piece of mind instead of having to put more time and effort into something to ensure you get what you want.

It's not just about skipping the most time waiting. Letting go of that mindset, and you will stop being as angry about how other people chose how they tour the parks.

 

[spacemt354]

That's apparent on both sides of the fence.

If you read the rest of my post I said that

 

[PhotoDave219]

It seems that Comcast sees the business for exactly what it is - a Theme Park Business - which can be very successful and profitable if run that way.

Understanding that, they have the Park experience as their main driver incl revenue. Cutting edge technology, immersion and rides.

Keep it fresh, keep it new, keep'em coming.....

While Disney is/has been in the Resort/lock guests in Vacation Business which has created a huge infrastructure beast that has to be fed - solely owned resort hotels, transportation, restaurants, golf courses, roads, infrastructure, land, etc., Parks and pushing 70,000 employees.

Two line items from Disney Company open source:

58,000 employees are employed by Walt Disney World as of 2006, spending more than $1.1 billion on payroll and $478 million in benefits each year

69,900 employees are employed by Walt Disney World as of 2013, spending more than $1.8 billion on payroll and $1.0 billion in benefits each year​

Take note of the doubling of the Benefits.

Everything Disney has done - NextGen, venue closures, etc., has been focused on reducing/optimizing headcount and those liabilities. Their 10K's also seem to show significant effort in shoring up/reducing pension plan liabilities.

Contrast that with Comcast at UOR and their relationship with Loews, for example.

Comcast seems to know exactly what they want to be and is playing it very smart. Being the smaller more nimble #2 is often a very good place to be since you get to benefit from observing what the more mature #1 did well and what they did/do poorly.

Sorry for the long first post......

But a good first post.

 

[jakeman]

If you read the rest of my post I said that

I guess I could have just hit the like button instead of emphasizing my agreement with an additional post.