A Spirited Perfect Ten

[ford91exploder]

My previous posts were about design aesthetics, but since "Disney is a business..."

Disney used to know these things, either through inherent knowledge and a lot of trial and error. And all that is being sacrificed for one immediate benefit. Yes, more "personal space" is nice, but if you add one positive environmental factor, but make 3 things worse, you are worse off than you were before.

Now, I don't think most guests will be able to articulate any of that, anymore than they can articulate why they like a certain brand logo over another one. But I do think it will show up in people's behavior, and stress levels when touring the park, and ultimately how willing they are to buy, or rate the enjoyment of their day. Again, big business spends a lot of resources figuring out this stuff, and I don't think Disney has given it a second thought.

You are rapidly becoming one of my favorite posters @hopemax as you illustrate the reasons why the experience at WDW is degrading.

Disney seems to be operating under the assumption the customers will ALWAYS come because the brand is strong, Yet every move Disney makes recently has been diluting the brand. I can recall when Disney toys were of Playmobil quality and they LASTED.

What TWDC is capitalizing on now is decades of now departed quality, Some will say no one cares about quality products and experiences any longer, I do not believe that to be true and at least in the theme park space Universal is generating huge profits even as they upgrade their parks, attractions and merchandise, At the same time Disney is struggling to match profit margins seen in the worst years of prior management teams.

Disney is no longer hiring the best CM's I've watched many times as a CM with a poor grasp of english struggles to operate a register or computer. There is a manual there but the CM never uses it making me wonder are they too proud to admit they don't know how to do something or are they functionally illiterate and cannot look up the instructions. Both are equally bad from a guest experience standpoint.

Yet you see the 'old line' CM's with white hair look in the manual frequently as they know there is no shame in admitting they don't know how to do something and that's why the manual was written in the first place.

The overwhelming feeling I get from WDW is TWDC is milking it dry before discarding it, I've been at many organizations on the verge of failure (I've been there to PREVENT the failure from occurring ) and the vibe is very similar as the staff is always sullen and in a 'keep your head down' mode.

 

[ScoutN]

That's just insane.
I love the place, but I have no desire to set foot in there if there's more than 60-70k inside. At most.

I want to say one thing and one thing along regarding the capacity and safety topic. If they crammed 100k in there before the expansion opened you can guarantee that they will cram even more in there with the new concrete areas. I don't buy the safety bit at all; just a higher gate count aspect.

 

[Smiddimizer]

On the cost reduction front I've frequently wondered why WDW has not deployed robotic bartenders they are now cheap enough starting about 25,000 for a unit which makes 600 drinks including most of the Tiki Bar drinks. Many Vegas hotels use similar systems you can vastly increase margins because 'Just Enough' liquor and mixers are used plus you can replace a bartender making good money with a minimum wage CM.

http://smartbarusa.com/demo

I was kind of expecting TS to have a robot bar tender to save on labor cost.

April Fools? How is it supposed to muddle? If I wanted an old fashioned or a mint julep I'm screwed

 

[ford91exploder]

The new hub design can not prevent an accident nor would it be any more safe if a stampede broke out. The purpose of the new hub is to allow MORE people in than previous. The wider walkways would technically allow for more people to possibly bulldoze over the kids passed out in their stroller.

Do you really believe a wider walkway will cause people to be more civil and calm in the event of a panic?

Also consider the bottleneck effect that would occur at MSUSA. Once all those people got passed the hub they still have to get to the exit so now you have more people than ever slamming into Main Street. Im sure the new hub will come flying in with a cape on its back and save the day! Super Hub to the rescue!

Agree the larger capacity with exits unchanged ie MSUSA will just make a panic event FAR WORSE than it would have been. Without getting into the tinfoil hat zone just imagine a failed firework landing in the hub, There have been a bunch of injuries already with embers falling on people in NFL so this one is definitely in the realm of the possible.

 

[DDLand]

Some of those hotels are getting $600+ a night with, aside from transportation, less amenities than a Fairfoeld Inn

While true, there's got to be some reason Universal has decided to outsource managment. Hotels aren't the highest margin playing field. For example their partner Loews Hotels and Resorts reported 4.4% operating margins. They operate exclusively luxury hotels. Disney operates a wide variety of hotels at differing price points down to the mid 100s. It seems reasonable to assume that Disney could be being dragged down by their hotel operations especially because as the 90s progressed they added more rooms. Also many of those rooms have apparently been empty...

That could hurt margins too.

 

[ford91exploder]

April Fools? How is it supposed to muddle? If I wanted an old fashioned or a mint julep I'm screwed

No not April Fools - Robot Bar Tenders are becoming very common in Vegas because they eliminate overpouring as the pours are accurate to within 1/20'th of an ounce or so no human bartender is that good and that saves money on alcohol.

 

[spacemt354]

Bullied out essentially.

There is some bullying that goes on.

However, anytime someone tells you to go somewhere else is not bullying. This forum is divided in some cases. Some areas are more negative, some (most) very very positive.

I'm not sure it's anyone's place to tell people that they should be more positive. Nor vice versa. But as I said, being told that there are other areas of the forum where you might find your viewpoints is not bullying. Name-calling or other middle-school behavior? That has no place here, but neither you or I are going to change those people.

 

[ford91exploder]

I want to say one thing and one thing along regarding the capacity and safety topic. If they crammed 100k in there before the expansion opened you can guarantee that they will cram even more in there with the new concrete areas. I don't buy the safety bit at all; just a higher gate count aspect.

Yep the only metric that counts these days is the admission count.

 

[ScoutN]

Yep the only metric that counts these days is the admission count.

At some point I have to say that the admission count loses its luster. They have to make coin on in-park purchases and at some point the lines to buy items have to lose out in a battle vs lines to ride. I would really love to know what the in park expenditures by guests are on a 75k day vs 100k since the latter has ludicrously long lines.

 

[ford91exploder]

While true, there's got to be some reason Universal has decided to outsource managment. Hotels aren't the most high margin playing field. For example their partner Loews Hotels and Resorts reported 4.4% operating margins. They operate exclusively luxury hotels. Disney operates a wide variety of hotels at differing price points down to the mid 100s. It seem reasonable to assume that Disney could be being dragged down by their hotel operations especially because as the 90s progressed they added more rooms. Also many of those rooms have apparently been empty...

That could hurt margins too.

Perhaps because UNI wanted to concentrate on PARKS and leave hotels to the professionals in the field, And Lowe's margins are about right for their market segment. Good hotels ARE expensive to operate

 

[ford91exploder]

At some point I have to say that the admission count loses its luster. They have to make coin on in-park purchases and at some point the lines to buy items have to lose out in a battle vs lines to ride. I would really love to know what the in park expenditures by guests are on a 75k day vs 100k since the latter has ludicrously long lines.

It's probably still higher than at 75k, I'd love to see something like the Laffer curve for per guest spending vs attendance.

 

[DDLand]

Perhaps because UNI wanted to concentrate on PARKS and leave hotels to the professionals in the field, And Lowe's margins are about right for their market segment. Good hotels ARE expensive to operate

I'm not making a commentary on that. I'm just trying to find the cause of Universal's significantly higher margins then Disney. Some could say that it's operational. I'm sure that could be part of it, but only half of the story. What's the biggest difference between Universal Orlando and Disney World? The hotels.

Also size. I'm not sure if there are operational inefficiencies on that front. That's beyond my limited abilities of understanding. Update: Now that I've thought about it, Disney still was reporting much higher margins into the late 1990s. This shows that having multiple parks operating does not limit its ability to scale upwards.

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm not making a commentary on that. I'm just trying to find the cause of Universal's significantly higher margins then Disney. Some could say that it's operational. I'm sure that could be part of it, but only half of the story. What's the biggest difference between Universal Orlando and Disney World? The hotels.

The biggest reason I think is Universal is doing what WDW once did, They are investing in new attractions and experiences which encourage people to go BACK and bring their friends with them. The OLD WDW model generated record profits for decades and that model STILL works, Iger is trying to run P&R the way Wall St thinks it should be run and failing miserably and that's because cuts in attractions/menus/entertainment is not a viable strategy for success in this market.

TWDC should sell P&R to OLC who actually KNOW how to run a 'Disney' park and collect the license fees before they damage P&R beyond repair.

I just got a AP mailing from UNI asking whether I wanted to sign up to be a float rider in their Mardi Gras parade, When was the LAST time WDW did something special for their AP holders. Where do YOU want to spend your money?, Most people prefer to spend money at a place that caters to you not one that regards you as one more sheep to be fleeced.

As to the Hotel's WDW once was a full service resort, At one time there was a program where you could pay a one time fee which was equal to one day's hotel stay and you could then take advantage of as many Sea Raycer, Horseback rides, Greens fees (carts still extra) and all that other entertainment for the length of your stay at any venue at WDW. Now all that stuff is charged by the hour.

During the 80's and 90's WDW was a resort with theme parks, Now I'm not sure what it is any longer...

 

[Funmeister]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site. You're reaching soooooooo hard to find criticisim of the hub that you're just making things up now. Bloodborne pathogens? Really? Why is a kid more likely to hurt himself on concrete amidst fake grass rather than concrete amidst real grass or concrete by itself or stone or brick or tile or dirt or asphalt or...

Making it up? Just curious...do you know how much training the company puts front line Cast Members (mainly custodial) through on how to handle bloodbourne pathogens? I wasnt pulling that out of my for giggles. The company takes that pretty serious. I am not exaggerating when I say the training is almost funny how strict and over the top it is. I guess this can seem pretty crazy for those who have never worked for the company especially for those non-custodial Cast Members. Oh well..to each their own...especially those not in the know.

 

[wdisney9000]

It truly seems that the negativity towards the "naysayers" is far greater than the perceived negativity that said naysayers allegedly hold towards the parks.

Preferring trees over concrete and fake grass is not negative, but complaining about "naysayers" and "doom & gloomers" IS ACTUALLY negative. That negative attitudes ALWAYS comes from people who say the exact same tired remarks in one form or another. "why do you visit WDW if you hate it", "you spend so much time in a WDW forum but you hate it", "why do you give your money to a place you obviously hate", etc, etc, yadda, yadda.. Thats where the true negativity is.

Perhaps its that some people just refuse to accept the truth that the parks are simply not operated in the high standards they once were, or that the people in charge could give a rats about your families enjoyment when it comes time to produce numbers and bottom lines. Those same executives prefer a new, uneducated consumer over your loyal business.

They now prefer customers who never saw or experienced the days of high standards and fully functional attractions, yet the irony is that they so heavily rely on the nostalgia created by those days and they even use the word "memories" in almost every advertisement. Well you know what, Ive got lots of memories, as do many others and they serve us well to recognize when we are being short changed by people attempting to run a theme park that they hardly ever step foot in.

 

[coolbeans14]

Ok lets get something straight. CP's are some of the hardest working cast members on property. They are given the worst hours sometimes with 14 days between days off and up until recently Minimum wage. They have no benefits and are expected to put up with Tourists asking the same dumb questions and acting generally like idiots on a regular basis. TO top this all off their commute can take an hour or more each way to and from the housing complexes because Disney likes to have trans star run giant loops to every housing complex and there's only like 6-8 bus schedules. SO in short get off their cases. If they want to play on their rare day off in the parks, they have certainly earned it and they don't need to spend their HARD earned money in the parks if they don't want to.

ROJ2323 <-- Former CP and trainer and proud of it.

Such a good point, I recently started work at a UK park, and front of line is easily one of the worst jobs imaginable. Customers are either pretty thick, or incredibly rude, hours are far too long, and I recently wore a costume with a head- all I'll say is the characters have earned my respect ten fold.

The worst thing is when you see a 17 year old who is just doing this for a Saturday job get ripped into by the most awful parents. From the sounds of it staff at WDW get it even worse, so I say give them their days in the park.

 

[ford91exploder]

Making it up? Just curious...do you know how much training the company puts front line Cast Members (mainly custodial) through on how to handle bloodbourne pathogens? I wasnt pulling that out of my *** for giggles. The company takes that pretty serious. I am not exaggerating when I say the training is almost funny how strict and over the top it is. I guess this can seem pretty crazy for those who have never worked for the company especially for those non-custodial Cast Members. Oh well..to each their own...especially those not in the know.

For that type of training is almost impossible to overstate the importance of doing everything correctly EVERY EVERY. I'm a member of my companies emergency response committee and we take that training VERY seriously, I'm on the policy making side not the first responder side.

 

[wdisney9000]

I'm a member of my companies emergency response committee

Dwight Schrute would be proud! Are you also Assistant (to the) Regional Manager. lol

 

[Funmeister]

For that type of training is almost impossible to overstate the importance of doing everything correctly EVERY EVERY. I'm a member of my companies emergency response committee and we take that training VERY seriously, I'm on the policy making side not the first responder side.

Ask an honest question and people think OH YOU ARE A DOOM AND GLOOMER! lol This too much! Until they actually work for the company and realize some of the REAL concerns the company really have then they will understand the bsis for my statement and question(s). It was not something I just pulled out of the air for fun. It was based on an actual concern that the company has and continues to have on bloodbourne pathogeons. It really shows how uneducated some people can be with the inner workings of the company even though they claim to be opinionated experts about the company. Am I an expert? No but I know more than your average bear.

 

[asianway]

It truly seems that the negativity towards the "naysayers" is far greater than the perceived negativity that said naysayers allegedly hold towards the parks.

Preferring trees over concrete and fake grass is not negative, but complaining about "naysayers" and "doom & gloomers" IS ACTUALLY negative. That negative attitudes ALWAYS comes from people who say the exact same tired remarks in one form or another. "why do you visit WDW if you hate it", "you spend so much time in a WDW forum but you hate it", "why do you give your money to a place you obviously hate", etc, etc, yadda, yadda.. Thats where the true negativity is.

Perhaps its that some people just refuse to accept the truth that the parks are simply not operated in the high standards they once were, or that the people in charge could give a rats **** about your families enjoyment when it comes time to produce numbers and bottom lines. Those same executives prefer a new, uneducated consumer over your loyal business.

They now prefer customers who never saw or experienced the days of high standards and fully functional attractions, yet the irony is that they so heavily rely on the nostalgia created by those days and they even use the word "memories" in almost every advertisement. Well you know what, Ive got lots of memories, as do many others and they serve us well to recognize when we are being short changed by people attempting to run a theme park that they hardly ever step foot in.

Look back at history at all the wars fought over religion. Then realize that to these people Disney is their religion