A Spirited Perfect Ten

[BrerJon]

When it comes down to it, the CP essentially forces the college students into the parks on their day off. Should they act respectfully while in the parks? Absolutely. Do they get out of control from time to time? Yes. But you also can't fault them for acting like 21 year olds either.

Part of the problem with CPs acting like kids not adults is because Disney treats them that way. Disney treats CPs like eight year olds in a boarding school, not adults in their early twenties - no alchohol, bunk beds in the dorms, curfews, termination without cause or reason, petty managers with playground politics... if you treat people like adults, they'll behave like them, but Disney has decided nobody is to be trusted and everyone should be treated like a kid. It should come as no great shock then that a tiny minority of those CMs behave in a juvenile manner on the rare occasions they get time off.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Have they?, I think the jury's still out on that one, They have had an almost infinite supply of south american tourists on a one and done basis,

How many repeat customers have they created since the dawn of the Iger era, Nearly all of us here are hardcore repeat customers but nearly all of us started BEFORE Iger started squeezing every penny.

What happens if the South Americans STOP coming???

Well.....

Everything stops. Thats what happens when the guests stop coming.

And thats the thing that TWDC seems to miss in P&R: They seem to believe that the Guests will ALWAYS Come.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Same with people who want to move carousel of progress are small world over to Epcot. How many billions of dollars do you think this is going to cost?

Not even half a billion.

 

[gmajew]

"Ok lets get something straight." CPs work crap shifts because they have zero seniority.

They make minimum wage because they're ride operators and food service employees. There's nothing wrong with being in that line of work, but that's what that line of work pays. I worked just as hard when I was a crew member at McDonald's as you did when you were slinging burritos at Tortuga, and I didn't claim I somehow deserved the equivalent of thousands of dollars worth of park admission.

Blowing bubbles at children outside of the Speedway doesn't make you "one of the hardest working cast members on property."

If you don't like "tourists asking dumb questions and acting generally like idiots," maybe you were in the wrong line of work. Way to break show in this very post by the way. Some of the readers here might like to maintain the illusion that CMs are genuine when they offer helpful advice in a friendly way, but it's nice of you to rid them of their delusions.

You just proved my point about entitlement, so thanks for that.

This goes for every restaurant and retail employeee in America. I have over 600 of them I employee and it is amazing what they feel they are entitled to these days.

 

[hopemax]

It's coming, Personally I cannot wait for those instagrams because things are going to need to get much worse at WDW before they get better.

The 'Disney is a Business' crowd have no idea why the CM's have gate passes, It was so the CM's could visit and learn about the parks in a unstructured fashion so they would have first hand knowledge so they could provide superior service to guests. It was a hard nosed decision by Walt opposed by many in the 'business' community.

This worked a lot better when Disney paid above average wages and your average CM spoke the language fluently and did not live in a Igerville and could afford to visit the park on their day off instead of working their second and third job as is normal for today.

THIS! There's a reason that whenever most guest questions came up, the other CM's would direct them to my Mom. She was the only one who would visit on a regular basis (1 or 2 others would visit the MK once a year, maybe with out-of-town guests).

That's why it was royally stupid that CM's were the last group to get access to FastPass+. How could they possibly help guests when they didn't even know how the website really operated, or the process, or how to solve the litany of "glitches."

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm sorry I still haven't seen a decent reconciliation of how Iger is a penny pincher but he spent an absurd am out of money on Next Gen (and China, etc). It's a mistake to claim he's not investing in the product for the future. He's spending. You just don't like HOW, which is a separate conversation. "Iger is cheap" is, at best, a shaky premise on which to build your criticism.

Don't make @ParentsOf4 break out his capital spending graphs. Agreed that I'm not a fan of the way he's spending P&R money. I could live without another park in China. DCA 2.0 was his greatest achievement in P&R.

I'm more negative about the cost cutting than lack of new investment. Just fix what's there and it would be a great start. My personal opinion is the next billion at WDW should be spent on major refurbs instead of new stuff.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's coming, Personally I cannot wait for those instagrams because things are going to need to get much worse at WDW before they get better.

The 'Disney is a Business' crowd have no idea why the CM's have gate passes, It was so the CM's could visit and learn about the parks in a unstructured fashion so they would have first hand knowledge so they could provide superior service to guests. It was a hard nosed decision by Walt opposed by many in the 'business' community.

This worked a lot better when Disney paid above average wages and your average CM spoke the language fluently and did not live in a Igerville and could afford to visit the park on their day off instead of working their second and third job as is normal for today.

This is a good point. It probably goes even beyond this too. When you have a sense of pride in your work you want to share it with friends and family. When a CM had people come to town to visit they wanted to bring them to work to show off their park.

 

[ford91exploder]

Don't make @ParentsOf4 break out his capital spending graphs. Agreed that I'm not a fan of the way he's spending P&R money. I could live without another park in China. DCA 2.0 was his greatest achievement in P&R.

I'm more negative about the cost cutting than lack of new investment. Just fix what's there and it would be a great start. My personal opinion is the next billion at WDW should be spent on major refurbs instead of new stuff.

I would agree with that, Let's get the existing plant and infrastructure up to Disney standards (pre-Iger) then add new stuff.

 

[GoofGoof]

I would agree with that, Let's get the existing plant and infrastructure up to Disney standards (pre-Iger) then add new stuff.

It would be hard to get marketing behind that and the fanboy brigade would be crying about Harry Potter phase 3 opening with still no Potter Swatter, but it would make a lot of sense. If you fail to keep up you get DHS in its current state which is such a mess it needs a complete makeover now. Don't let things get that bad. I'm looking at you EPCOT

 

[hopemax]

And as for the CP's in general. My Mom has had plenty of good experiences with them. Most arrive eager to learn, but just as in any job, they quickly learn the culture of their job site. Which at Disney means: improper training and improper supervision. Which leads to the "laziness" on the job (chit chatting, hiding in corridors and wherever they can manage. The shop stewards can be quick to put a stop to "non-trainers," attempting to instruct new CM's the ropes because it's not their job. If someone goes above and beyond, they are quickly reminded of the "pecking order" and don't make anyone with more seniority look bad. New CM's expect someone is going to teach them, but more often they are just thrown on stage by themselves, and no one bothers to follow up to see if they're doing okay or doing the correct thing. So they do their best to copy what they see and "fit in." It frustrates the heck out of those trying to do the right thing, but you talk to a supervisor, nothing changes.

The CP's finally, may learn the basics and some advanced skills, and then it's time for them to go back home, the new batch gets trucked in and it starts all over.

 

[BrianLo]

Don't make @ParentsOf4 break out his capital spending graphs. Agreed that I'm not a fan of the way he's spending P&R money. I could live without another park in China. DCA 2.0 was his greatest achievement in P&R.

I'd say the one minor positive is the three worst parks (HKDL, WDS, DCA) he acquired are to various degrees improved to greatly improved. Other parks (DLP, Epcot, DHS) have certainly gotten marginally to significantly worse, but outside DHS, we've gone from three absolute turds to one.

Two steps forward, one step back, which is kind of sad for a whole decade.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The driver behind NextGen was to spend approximately 800 million on building a system which would spread the guests evenly across all attractions INSTEAD of adding adding new attractions at a cost of several billion dollars, Unfortunately the system was underscoped and cost between 1.8 and 3.6 billion dollars and managed to eke out a couple of percentage points of additional margin.

The park up the road did it the 'old fashioned' way and built NEW attractions and increased their top line revenues nearly 40% in the last reported quarter.

Hmm I wonder which program was more successful the "Mouse Arrest" band or the "Build it and they will come" program, The answer is left as an exercise for the reader.

The program did succeed in spreading out the crowds, but also further reinforced the existing problems in the parks.

They still have to build new rides which would have theoretically also helped to spread out the crowds. It's no secret that the $1.5 billion+ could have been better spent on new attractions. As such, the parks wouldn't be in the stale state they're in now.

 

[ford91exploder]

The program did succeed in spreading out the crowds, but also further reinforced the existing problems in the parks.

They still have to build new rides which would have theoretically also helped to spread out the crowds. It's no secret that the $1.5 billion+ could have been better spent on new attractions. As such, the parks wouldn't be in the stale state they're in now.

Yes it did succeed in spreading the crowds unfortunately it reinforced some of the structural problems and the long read cycles caused by poor ergonomics slowed attraction loading.

 

[PhotoDave219]

And as for the CP's in general. My Mom has had plenty of good experiences with them. Most arrive eager to learn, but just as in any job, they quickly learn the culture of their job site. Which at Disney means: improper training and improper supervision. Which leads to the "laziness" on the job (chit chatting, hiding in corridors and wherever they can manage. The shop stewards can be quick to put a stop to "non-trainers," attempting to instruct new CM's the ropes because it's not their job. If someone goes above and beyond, they are quickly reminded of the "pecking order" and don't make anyone with more seniority look bad. New CM's expect someone is going to teach them, but more often they are just thrown on stage by themselves, and no one bothers to follow up to see if they're doing okay or doing the correct thing. So they do their best to copy what they see and "fit in." It frustrates the heck out of those trying to do the right thing, but you talk to a supervisor, nothing changes.

The CP's finally, may learn the basics and some advanced skills, and then it's time for them to go back home, the new batch gets trucked in and it starts all over.

Which is why I feel they need to be hiring more people in supervisory roles that have experience outside of the Walt Disney World resort… People who do not have those bad habits and the ingrained culture that has been cultivated.

 

[ford91exploder]

It would be hard to get marketing behind that and the fanboy brigade would be crying about Harry Potter phase 3 opening with still no Potter Swatter, but it would make a lot of sense. If you fail to keep up you get DHS in its current state which is such a mess it needs a complete makeover now. Don't let things get that bad. I'm looking at you EPCOT

If Disney spent the profits from P&R for a couple of years on a park renovation project and built new attractions at DHS there is no reason both could not be completed in a couple of years.

 

[GoofGoof]

If Disney spent the profits from P&R for a couple of years on a park renovation project and built new attractions at DHS there is no reason both could not be completed in a couple of years.

True. They could do a lot of different things if they loosen the purse strings...and yes they should be reinvesting more.

In an extreme example, if you asked me would you rather have mostly everything that's wrong with existing or vacant attractions at WDW cleaned up over the next 5 years or Star Wars Land and 2 additional E tickets I would still take the clean up.

 

[hopemax]

Which is why I feel they need to be hiring more people in supervisory roles that have experience outside of the Walt Disney World resort… People who do not have those bad habits and the ingrained culture that has been cultivated.

Again in my Mom's area, about 6 months ago, they brought in such a person as a location manager and I asked my Mom what this person thought about how the culture was, and my Mom said she was flabbergasted. But even though they are supposedly in a somewhat power position, they don't have "real" power. The location managers do what the area managers want, who do what they need to make numbers. Locations don't have the power to say, "my CM's are going to shadow for 2 weeks or whatever," that's all decided "WDW globally." This person was brought in because the previous one was "forced out" for butting heads with the boss, who thinks all of this is fine. And now, the other similar managers are transferring as fast as they can, because of how all of that went down. They hope they end up in the pockets that still have good structures (I hear Animal Kingdom quite a bit as one of those places) or just bounce around, trying the best they can.

It's interesting watching how Universal introduces their TM's over Disney. I'm sure Universal isn't really that much better, but it's enough. We've seen a new server shadow an experienced server during the course of our meal; just expected to watch. And we've seen a new register trainee, pulled when the traffic rose above a certain level, and it was needed to keep the transaction time low. Meanwhile at Disney, we saw a newbie CM, honestly, I think we were her first guests ever, supposed to serve us food at Pop Century's food court, while the trainer was explaining something to the two other trainee on the other side of the station. This poor girl is looking at us with a complete deer in the headlights look, and it took a couple minutes before the trainee even looked over to help. To add insult to injury, she was obviously part of an international program, and her English was not very strong, and seemed not to even understand what "chicken & dumplings" were. There were no other CM's in the area to jump in, as the line grew behind us. I felt so bad for her. What Disney expects of these new CM's is not right. They are put in a position to fail. And it wouldn't surprise me if the "good" ones just up and quit. They KNOW they can do better than this, so Disney is left with a lot of people that just don't have better employment options, or don't give a darn.

 

[Smiddimizer]

How many billion dollars do you think that would cost?

Same with people who want to move carousel of progress are small world over to Epcot. How many billions of dollars do you think this is going to cost?

Not a lot, actually. Yoda replaces Stitch...loose re-theme of the land into a "Starport"...keep Space Mountain, put X-Wings on Astro Orbitor...couldn't care less what happens to CoP.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Not a lot, actually. Yoda replaces Stitch...loose re-theme of the land into a "Starport"...keep Space Mountain, put X-Wings on Astro Orbitor...couldn't care less what happens to CoP.

I think we're gonna agree to disagree here.

IMO, Star Wars belongs at DHS.

 

[Cesar R M]

Not a lot, actually. Yoda replaces Stitch...loose re-theme of the land into a "Starport"...keep Space Mountain, put X-Wings on Astro Orbitor...couldn't care less what happens to CoP.

so.. DHS becomes only Frozen Land with a side of pixar and hollywood?