A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Lee]

I'd venture to say that EE was a pretty ambitious ride, though with the yeti out of commission for some years and the fact that it came almost 10 years ago makes me frown a little on the inside

Talk about cuts....EE had its share, before and after opening.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just got home from a full day at Magic Kingdom...an awful day...

Pirates had an 80 minute wait...Mansion 70...are you kidding me? Every time I walked by 7 Dwarves Mine Train it was down. All in all, even with my three fast passes, I only got on five rides(and I skipped my third FP and headed home). Five rides in over twelve hours at the park. Yeah, I did go see the characters in Storybook Circus and sat through Hall of Presidents, but seriously...this place is a madhouse. People eating attractions need to be fast tracked for this park NOW.

The new hub is spacious, but it's so bland and shadeless. I dislike it. Actually, the majority of this park has become a massive concrete jungle. Such a shame.

As for upkeep? Three of my bathroom visits started with me walking into filthy poop covered stalls(and a fourth with vomit in the toilet). Two completely dead animatronics in Pirates, as well as a number of them without their mouth movements. Didn't Splash just come back from a rehab? Saw a few issues there too. People mover went down for quite awhile(when I was going to ride), they eventually evacuated everyone from the ride and it remained closed well after.
On a good note, the staff does a great job of cleaning up the sidewalks and walkways after guests trash the place. Also, the new lighting in Mermaid definitely helps that ride...too bad they haven't fixed that rushed ending.

It's clear with over 18 million people visiting this park yearly something needs to be done, and the New Fantasyland was nowhere near enough.

If Disney honestly expects Shanghai Disneyland to bring in 25 million people annually, they had better get moving on adding tons of attractions if they want to survive their first year. (Realistically, I'm betting on about 10 million people visiting the first year.)

Spring break weeks are brutal. Did that one time. Never again.

 

[ford91exploder]

Correct, and I was careful to not state anything along the lines of "who cares, they cut this and that and look how awesome it still came out..." as perhaps since Splash, nothing like that has been true. I'm just stating that as you concur, everything receives cuts. I hope, pray, sacrifice the last hairs from my head, that Imagineering asks for 10 zillion dollars in budget and hopefully only gets 50% of that slashed. As 5 zillion would allow for an awesome Star Wars land.

The problem comes from culture, WDI comes up with a design with 'just enough' so it will get approved by WDI Management, Then come the cuts (especially from TDO) and you now have a attraction with 'not enough' where in the past WDI would reach for the stars so to speak so even if 20% actually gets built it will still be amazing.

Now with WDI reaching much lower at the 'imagination' stage you have the conditions which create today's underwhelming attractions.

It's a culture built around finance and finance alone the polar opposite of what BUILT TWDC.

 

[PhotoDave219]

The first time I rode EE it instantly became one of my TOP 3 rides in WDW. I love thrills and theme and this ride has it all. So much fun.

I had the opposite experience. I pushed passed people in the gift shop as to not vomit on them.

 

[PhotoDave219]

The problem comes from culture, WDI comes up with a design with 'just enough' so it will get approved by WDI Management, Then come the cuts (especially from TDO) and you now have a attraction with 'not enough' where in the past WDI would reach for the stars so to speak so even if 20% actually gets built it will still be amazing.

Now with WDI reaching much lower at the 'imagination' stage you have the conditions which create today's underwhelming attractions.

It's a culture built around finance and finance alone the polar opposite of what BUILT TWDC.

Mostly correct except TDO doesn't exist anymore other than in name only. Any cuts to attractions are coming out of Staggs' office or the FNG's office at Parks and Resorts. George K & his people have little to no input on what goes down when it comes to things being built.

Now this was completely different 10+ years ago when it was a different company, but modern Disney P&R is being controlled out west by Finance people.

Florida just gives the money back to their dealer and hope they don't catch a beating.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Just got home from a full day at Magic Kingdom...an awful day...

Pirates had an 80 minute wait...Mansion 70...are you kidding me? Every time I walked by 7 Dwarves Mine Train it was down. All in all, even with my three fast passes, I only got on five rides(and I skipped my third FP and headed home). Five rides in over twelve hours at the park. Yeah, I did go see the characters in Storybook Circus and sat through Hall of Presidents, but seriously...this place is a madhouse. People eating attractions need to be fast tracked for this park NOW.

The new hub is spacious, but it's so bland and shadeless. I dislike it. Actually, the majority of this park has become a massive concrete jungle. Such a shame.

As for upkeep? Three of my bathroom visits started with me walking into filthy poop covered stalls(and a fourth with vomit in the toilet). Two completely dead animatronics in Pirates, as well as a number of them without their mouth movements. Didn't Splash just come back from a rehab? Saw a few issues there too. People mover went down for quite awhile(when I was going to ride), they eventually evacuated everyone from the ride and it remained closed well after.
On a good note, the staff does a great job of cleaning up the sidewalks and walkways after guests trash the place. Also, the new lighting in Mermaid definitely helps that ride...too bad they haven't fixed that rushed ending.

It's clear with over 18 million people visiting this park yearly something needs to be done, and the New Fantasyland was nowhere near enough.

If Disney honestly expects Shanghai Disneyland to bring in 25 million people annually, they had better get moving on adding tons of attractions if they want to survive their first year. (Realistically, I'm betting on about 10 million people visiting the first year.)

I couldn't agree more. I haven't seen the park as bad as you described, but it's no secret that it needs more high capacity attractions. There are plenty of options:

• New attraction in Adventureland... perhaps a 20K Leagues variant, evidently it belongs in Trader Sam's alongside Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise and Pirates content.
• Have an actual bridge/land connection to Tom Sawyer's Island, there's room for at least one ride
• Relocate it's a small world and/or the Tomorrowland Speedway. Use the additional real estate for more Fantasyland content.
• Start over in Tomorrowland. Nothing is safe.

I wouldn't be surprised if a Tomorrowland overhaul is coming, but realistically it would be 5-6 years away at the earliest given what else is in the pipeline. Sure, they could have $500-$1 billion projects all going on simultaneously in each park, but we've been conditioned to expect far less than that.

 

[Cesar R M]

Actually one of the newest attack vectors is through the ad networks which attempt to install 'egg droppers' via the ad's It's one reason I run flashblock and no-script. With the notable exception of Google and a couple of others the AD distribution networks don't vet the content being distributed.

Before I started to run NoScript and Flashblock AV was firing on malware periodically when I'd visit an ad supported site. (Like THIS one) it's another reason I have premium membership as NO ADS are pushed.

hah, I remember when Googleads sometimes delivered INFECTED ads.

I've seen quite a few third party ad systems (like ones used in major websites like deviantart.com ) delivering malware.

 

[Cesar R M]

True - but when was the last time WDW built anything as ambitions as Splash Mountain? If they were constantly building things with that scope, we wouldn't be here talking about it.

I suppose the last thing with "scope" even if it doesnt fit much.. is AVATAR.
but it already was cut down considerably.

I just really hope that the animatronics and bio luminescence isnt cut down.

 

[Cesar R M]

Guest satisfaction is declining. Fact. Proof is Disney is adding another Soarin' theater and Toy Story Mania track. They would never do this if the amount of guest feedback was not overwhelming.

The only thing that will stop and prevent this from continuing to happen is if Disney designs and builds additional higher (much higher) capacity attractions.

They sold the public on how how much less they would have to wait with NextGen only for them to realize they actually have to wait longer. Sure some people (not all are worthy of scheduling Fast Passes...remember that) can schedule a few Fast Passes ahead of time and let's say best case scenario they will walk right on. Let's say it is for eight attractions. (You and I both know that is almost three times the amount anyone can schedule at a time but let's dream a little huh?) Is waiting 60 to 80+ minutes for everything else really worth it? Even on a slow day you will see some wait times 45 min and above with low crowds.

All of a sudden the number of "experiences" compared to the price I paid becomes less and less. I am getting less and less but paying more and more.

Disney has a huge problem that they created...they know it...but how do they fix it besides opening the pocketbooks (which they will not...at least not in Florida until it is way too late) to do a half-assed crap job of trying to fix it.

It will be interesting to see if they learn from their mistakes or continue to buy the same pixie dust BS they have been selling people.

Remember that feedback at WDW as been grossly manipulated (the skewed surveys anyone?), perhaps by the middle management.
Sso they look "nice" in the papers and reports they give to the top management... to to get a job promotion to the next ladder.
All while the top brass is dumbly blind to what really is happening. (they are all in Anaheim aren't them?)

 

[ford91exploder]

hah, I remember when Googleads sometimes delivered INFECTED ads.

I've seen quite a few third party ad systems (like ones used in major websites like deviantart.com ) delivering malware.

As do I but because of that Google actually FIXED the problem!, Which of course made it's ad platform more appealing for reputable companies...

 

[DVC91]

Have you seen EE from the parking lot? Nice unfinished wall. EE is great but not on the same level as Splash.

Y'know I'd forgotten about the wall...
<< that's me and my wall

Speaking of the same level as Splash, any idea on if the jumping water will ever be functional again? After Disco Yeti, yeah?

 

[ford91exploder]

Mostly correct except TDO doesn't exist anymore other than in name only. Any cuts to attractions are coming out of Staggs' office or the FNG's office at Parks and Resorts. George K & his people have little to no input on what goes down when it comes to things being built.

Now this was completely different 10+ years ago when it was a different company, but modern Disney P&R is being controlled out west by Finance people.

Florida just gives the money back to their dealer and hope they don't catch a beating.

True as to the structure but you still have basically two camps of executives the TDA who believe in quality and TDO who believe quality is 'wasteful' and believe in cost cutting, Unfortunately the 'TDO' camp has gained the ascendancy in the halls of 'Beautiful Downtown Burbank'...

 

[space42]

I suppose the last thing with "scope" even if it doesnt fit much.. is AVATAR.
but it already was cut down considerably.

I just really hope that the animatronics and bio luminescence isnt cut down.

I'm not sure we know enough about the Avatar attractions yet to say they match the scope of Splash Mountain.

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm not sure we know enough about the Avatar attractions yet to say they match the scope of Splash Mountain.

I'm sure Joe Rohde has DESIGNED something amazing, What actually gets BUILT is another story...

 

[BrianLo]

The problem comes from culture, WDI comes up with a design with 'just enough' so it will get approved by WDI Management, Then come the cuts (especially from TDO) and you now have a attraction with 'not enough' where in the past WDI would reach for the stars so to speak so even if 20% actually gets built it will still be amazing.

Now with WDI reaching much lower at the 'imagination' stage you have the conditions which create today's underwhelming attractions.

It's a culture built around finance and finance alone the polar opposite of what BUILT TWDC.

I see no issue with WDI's ability to continue to over design. The string of projects everywhere but WDW reveal they don't have any problems with being able to still produce grade A attractions. Even NFL is over designed (but lacks substance).

Frankly WDI needs to be put on a leash sometimes, otherwise you get a 100 million dollar queue. Ya sure it's pretty, but did you really need textiles fashioned with diamonds and thibetan monk's tears in lieu of just a solid attraction?

No one seems to understand this better than OLC, who continue to pay more and more and yet receive less for their money out of WDI. Imagination doesn't need to be quashed, but there is nothing wrong with some boundaries.

 

[Nubs70]

Here is the thing. Disney can get away with just about anything they do. If we have cardboard cutouts of Yoda and fiberglass land speeders people will still show up. The only ones who will be let down will be the star wars faithful. Disney doesn't need to impress their audience anymore because there is always more audience waiting to be underwhelmed.

This is where "pride in quality product" plays into WDW. WDW has no pride. If they had pride, WDW would create value products that are of quality and not maximized ROI.

 

[wogwog]

Remember that feedback at WDW as been grossly manipulated (the skewed surveys anyone?), perhaps by the middle management.
Sso they look "nice" in the papers and reports they give to the top management... to to get a job promotion to the next ladder.
All while the top brass is dumbly blind to what really is happening. (they are all in Anaheim aren't them?)

Nah, Anaheim is too close to a park. Top folks are in Burbank and Glendale, insulated.

 

[PhotoDave219]

True as to the structure but you still have basically two camps of executives the TDA who believe in quality and TDO who believe quality is 'wasteful' and believe in cost cutting, Unfortunately the 'TDO' camp has gained the ascendancy in the halls of 'Beautiful Downtown Burbank'...

Alas my point is (and Celebration Place Will tell you) that team Disney Orlando essentially doesn't really exist anymore.

Cuts, attractions, etc.... That all comes from parks and resorts at the corporate level. Little things like dessert parties? Those happen at the local level.

Star Wars is being handled out of the West Coast and… Unfortunately it looks like it's being done by a bunch of financial people who probably aren't even fans of the movies. Sad.

 

[Frankie The Beer]

The point was not that stockbacks are bad/good. The point is that everybody's doing it. ^^Good quote.

That means that buybacks are not an Iger thing, but a Wall Street thing.​

Company stock buy backs are not as bad as people are making them out. They can have negative effects for some companies, but in reality, they are used to return money to shareholders.

Warren Buffet stated, "If a company buys back shares at above their intrinsic value, buybacks destroy shareholder value. If a company buys back shares at below their intrinsic value, buybacks create value for existing shareholders."

Disney shares are an incredible value right now. Disney should be buying as many shares as they are legally allowed. My gut feeling is, once Dis gets to $120-150 range there will be a split, which would cement Iger's legacy, and make shareholders ecstatic. That would be huge.

There are obvious negatives to share buy backs, ask Best Buy or Capital One, but I can't remember the last time Disney had a bad quarter, I would guess I don't think the Street does as well.

People can of course discuss this ad nauseum, but in Disney's case, this is a good thing. For now.

 

[Mike S]

I couldn't agree more. I haven't seen the park as bad as you described, but it's no secret that it needs more high capacity attractions. There are plenty of options:

• New attraction in Adventureland... perhaps a 20K Leagues variant, evidently it belongs in Trader Sam's alongside Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise and Pirates content.
• Have an actual bridge/land connection to Tom Sawyer's Island, there's room for at least one ride
• Relocate it's a small world and/or the Tomorrowland Speedway. Use the additional real estate for more Fantasyland content.
• Start over in Tomorrowland. Nothing is safe except Space Mountain and the PeopleMover.

I wouldn't be surprised if a Tomorrowland overhaul is coming, but realistically it would be 5-6 years away at the earliest given what else is in the pipeline. Sure, they could have $500-$1 billion projects all going on simultaneously in each park, but we've been conditioned to expect far less than that.

Fixed that for you.

Y'know I'd forgotten about the wall...
<< that's me and my wall

Speaking of the same level as Splash, any idea on if the jumping water will ever be functional again? After Disco Yeti, yeah?

That's been fixed for quite a while now. I've seen it on all my most recent rides.