A Spirited Perfect Ten

[JediMasterMatt]

Like this entire concept of "TDO"... That's long gone.

Gone in terms of a decision making hierarchy; but, still very much at play when it comes to the way the two US resorts are managed. One Disney doesn't apply to the decisions that are made and the way they are actually run.

For better - DLR in recent years
&
For worse - WDW over the last decade plus

TDA and TDO are still easy terms to apply to the way the resorts are run. Even if it's the same group calling the shots these days.

 

[MichWolv]

The thing that really really really really really irritates me about Disney right now is that they are taking their sweet time with everything. Not out of a desire for a higher quality or better attraction… They're doing it for accounting reasons.

Not if they understand accounting, they aren't.

And they understand accounting.

They may be doing it for odd budgetary reasons, but not accounting.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Could you elaborate on that?

The One Disney initiative consolidated the decision making back to Burbank and not to the respective teams. Emperor Palpatine calls the shots these days.

 

[Lord_Vader]

But it's fans have more money than the Star Wars fans and they SPEND...

But there are a lot less of them and right now ST is estimated to be worth around $4B while SW is worth an estimated $33B at best $24B at worst...

I am a fan of both (really liked the last two movies but they were more SW style anyway) but spend my money on SW, why b/c I like it better. ST feels like a television show that couldn't quite grow into a movie even though suffered through all of them trying to like all but Wrath of Khan and the two new movies which I genuinely loved.

 

[LondonGopher]

It's also much easier to be a Star Wars fan and not feel like you're missing anything. It really only takes ~12 hours of your time to watch the bulk of the canon (six films). You don't need to know the plots of Clone Wars, Rebels, Knights of the Old Republic, Rogue Squadron, or The Thrawn Trilogy to be "caught up."

Conversely, Star Trek's main canon is enormous, consisting of The Original Series, Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, Final Frontier, Undiscovered Country, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis, Star Trek, and Star Trek: Into Darkness. Rough math puts that at 703 TV episodes and 12 films. Assuming roughly one hour per episode and two hours per film, you have 30 days worth of material to catch up on. There's no good "jumping on" point because you won't get the jokes about tribbles, Captain Pike, or "he's dead, Jim." I personally discovered The Original Series about five years ago and I absolutely loved it, but it's just too daunting of a task to get caught up with the whole universe.

This ^^^ is a great point...now let me play devil's advocate.

I am by NO means a Star Trek fanatic, BUT when I saw that Paramount was planning a theme park in Kent (that's south of London ) I was over the moon to see that they are planning a "Star Trek Land". My son is eight - not old enough for ST yet - but it is DEFINITELY an IP that I can't wait to share with him, so much universe to explore! And that enormous canon SHOULD equal SERIOUSLY immersive theming - and a REAL opportunity to be "all things to all men".

So much of Star Trek HAS permeated the greater culture - "Beam me up", the Khan ear monster - I do think that IF DONE CORRECTLY, a ST Land has the ability to really grab the casual or even the non-fan.

I also think those casual fans are found in greater number than one might imagine - I just popped on my telly and checked - during this 24 hour period - there will be four different ST series (TOS, ST:TNG, Voyager and ST:Enterprise - hope I got the acronyms right!) airing on five different channels and running for a combined total of more than 35 hours (including the +1s). And that's just in England!

A ST Land also (of course) provides an opportunity like no other for Easter eggs. The German fan base alone should keep the Kent park in business...

 

[ford91exploder]

Gone in terms of a decision making hierarchy; but, still very much at play when it comes to the way the two US resorts are managed. One Disney doesn't apply to the decisions that are made and the way they are actually run.

For better - DLR in recent years
&
For worse - WDW over the last decade plus

TDA and TDO are still easy terms to apply to the way the resorts are run. Even if it's the same group calling the shots these days.

While strategic decisionmaking has now been rolled up to Burbank TDA/TDO still make the operational decisions.

 

[ford91exploder]

Do you remember how many they made?

No - but there were not very many as I recall, Something like that is a bit over the top for me

 

[ford91exploder]

This ^^^ is a great point...now let me play devil's advocate.

I am by NO means a Star Trek fanatic, BUT when I saw that Paramount was planning a theme park in Kent (that's south of London ) I was over the moon to see that they are planning a "Star Trek Land". My son is eight - not old enough for ST yet - but it is DEFINITELY an IP that I can't wait to share with him, so much universe to explore! And that enormous canon SHOULD equal SERIOUSLY immersive theming - and a REAL opportunity to be "all things to all men".

So much of Star Trek HAS permeated the greater culture - "Beam me up", the Khan ear monster - I do think that IF DONE CORRECTLY, a ST Land has the ability to really grab the casual or even the non-fan.

I also think those casual fans are found in greater number than one might imagine - I just popped on my telly and checked - during this 24 hour period - there will be four different ST series (TOS, ST:TNG, Voyager and ST:Enterprise - hope I got the acronyms right!) airing on five different channels and running for a combined total of more than 35 hours (including the +1s). And that's just in England!

A ST Land also (of course) provides an opportunity like no other for Easter eggs. The German fan base alone should keep the Kent park in business...

I think you make a relevant point as the 'flip phone' was explicitly a realization of the ST:TOS communicator and the iPad was an explicit reference to the PADD from all the ST series, How many time do you hear 'Beam me up Scotty - there is no intelligent life here' or 'It's dead Jim' from non-FANS, How many computer interfaces take inspiration from LCARS and Okudagrams ???

Yes SW at the moment is more valuable franchise because of the toy sales, but a well executed park I think would be wildly successful.

 

[matt78]

No - but there were not very many as I recall, Something like that is a bit over the top for me

I remember seeing that as an 18 year old and thinking they were crazy. My last time there was in 2001 so I never got to see the Borg Invasion 4-D. Was it as good as the Klingon Encounter?

 

[ford91exploder]

I remember seeing that as an 18 year old and thinking they were crazy. My last time there was in 2001 so I never got to see the Borg Invasion 4-D. Was it as good as the Klingon Encounter?

It was VERY good and well executed - you felt like you were THERE on a ship with the Borg trying to assimilate the crew. It was the definition of an immersive experience which in the end is WHY we visit theme parks or at least WHY I visit them.

 

[matt78]

It was VERY good and well executed - you felt like you were THERE on a ship with the Borg trying to assimilate the crew. It was the definition of an immersive experience which in the end is WHY we visit theme parks or at least WHY I visit them.

I wish I had the chance to experience it. Maybe I'll luck out and Universal will build something similar.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Shes in the College Program - probably a CP thing to network/etc

I'm inclined to agree with you, but when someone like her has around 10,000 followers on Instagram you have to wonder if she was fed some info to be at/near a certain location at the Studios at a certain time. Many of her followers are likely her age or younger which make them future college program applicants. If you're disney, you want someone like that giving sincere positive feedback on that experience with a couple occasional pushes towards MAGICAL experiences.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm inclined to agree with you, but when someone like her has around 10,000 followers on Instagram you have to wonder if she was fed some info to be at/near a certain location at the Studios at a certain time. Many of her followers are likely her age or younger which make them future college program applicants. If you're disney, you want someone like that giving sincere positive feedback on that experience with a couple occasional pushes towards MAGICAL experiences.

Meh... that's what media/promoters DO. It's not like this is some Disney sin. Be it building champions, loyalists, tipping favored reporters, strategic leaks, special access to the chosen ones, etc... That's what PR does.. all tools in their toolbox to forward the messages they want out there. The only shady part is if people deny the tip/access they have. Expecting up front disclosure doesn't really happen. Evaluating someone's bias or independence in the face of the PR efforts is as old as language itself.

I mean.. it's like trying to stir it up about a dog chewing on a bone.. because.. it's acting like a dog. It is what it is. You know what they do, you know what to expect.. and there are no bad feelings as long as it doesn't pretend it's something else.

We don't know enough about this encounter to know if it's an organized event, chance passing, or staged passing.. but even if staged... its just a dog being a dog.

 

[BrianLo]

That is the single most annoying thing about WDW vs UNI and OLC both OLC and UNI believe in getting attractions online QUICKLY so they can strike while the iron is hot so to speak.

I don't think I understand what you are getting at with this statement at all. I can't think of a single mutually shared IP OLC really utilized prior to WDW. Even Frozen is coming online at WDW well before OLC's version (2018, 2019?). OLC seems to take a bit longer at the behest of doing it better... I don't think Quickly is better at all in this example.

I also don't see how this really applies to Star Wars vs. Star Trek either. How exactly is the iron more or less hot on two decades old franchises? Star Trek is soon finishing up its current trilogy, Star Wars has yet to start, yet both projects are percolating at similar speeds. I wouldn't give either resort a passing grade on that one.

 

[ford91exploder]

I don't think I understand what you are getting at with this statement at all. I can't think of a single mutually shared IP OLC really utilized prior to WDW. Even Frozen is coming online at WDW well before OLC's version (2018, 2019?). OLC seems to take a bit longer at the behest of doing it better... I don't think Quickly is better at all in this example.

I also don't see how this really applies to Star Wars vs. Star Trek either. How exactly is the iron more or less hot on two decades old franchises? Star Trek is soon finishing up its current trilogy, Star Wars has yet to start, yet both projects are percolating at similar speeds. I wouldn't give either resort a passing grade on that one.

As to Frozen in TDL OLC is reorganizing an entire sector of the park around it and yet it will be open OLC says in 2018 I'd say that was FAST considering it takes WDW 3+ to build a kiddie coaster.

As to a potential ST attraction/park, If it's greenlit it will probably be online in < 3 years as opposed to 6+ years for SW (2021-2) by current schedules. Paramount is apparently a pain to deal with on licensing as there is another Park being proposed in Kent UK which will feature ST and Dr Who (I'll be there opening day) among others and that
s scheduled for 2019 or so.

 

[ford91exploder]

I wish I had the chance to experience it. Maybe I'll luck out and Universal will build something similar.

There IS one being built in Kent UK which will also feature Dr Who attractions should open around 2019

 

[Nemo14]

Edit: I just love voice to text when I'm yelling into the phone… Hilarious.

I LOVE your phone!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Some trivia...

Did you know that one of Eisner's first executive orders as CEO was to the people at the film archives. He wanted them to bring to his office the EPCOT movie Walt made before he died. This was before the film was released to the public.

It is said that Eisner set the projector up, dimmed the lights in his office, and watched the film over and over again.

What resulted in Eisner's interest in EPCOT became the inspiration for Celebration.

The EPCOT film was shown in theaters and Celebration came out of pressure from Osceola County. Eisner saw himself as a grand patron of architecture like an old European noble. That's why he hired "starchitects" for so much work.

 

[Hakunamatata]

It's also much easier to be a Star Wars fan and not feel like you're missing anything. It really only takes ~12 hours of your time to watch the bulk of the canon (six films). You don't need to know the plots of Clone Wars, Rebels, Knights of the Old Republic, Rogue Squadron, or The Thrawn Trilogy to be "caught up."

Conversely, Star Trek's main canon is enormous, consisting of The Original Series, Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, Final Frontier, Undiscovered Country, Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis, Star Trek, and Star Trek: Into Darkness. Rough math puts that at 703 TV episodes and 12 films. Assuming roughly one hour per episode and two hours per film, you have 30 days worth of material to catch up on. There's no good "jumping on" point because you won't get the jokes about tribbles, Captain Pike, or "he's dead, Jim." I personally discovered The Original Series about five years ago and I absolutely loved it, but it's just too daunting of a task to get caught up with the whole universe.

Not to go too far off on a tangent, but I'll be interested to see how Marvel handles this issue as their cinematic universe grows. I think they've done a good job so far of integrating Agents of Shield and Agent Carter into the universe without making either one "essential reading" to one's enjoyment of the main film continuity. I hope the same will be true with the Netflix series.

All this is true, but they would sell a **** load of tribbles.

 

[Captain Neo]

Iger and Staggs in DHS

B-but Eisner visited the parks every day to sprinkle them with magic and Iger & stages don't care and haven't been to the parks not even once!