A Spirited Perfect Ten

[WDW1974]

Worked great for us in June. Zero problems.

I think this greatly differs from person to person. I hate the bands, hate MM+, hate NGE (BTW, true costs are now approaching that $3 billion level but they are so spread out that no one but a forensic accountant would ever be able to tell what the price tag was).

BUT ... I own six MAGIC bands. Five are in the box. First one has worked perfectly for two years for all ticketing, FPs and resort doors.

Now, that doesn't mean my experience or yours is the rule. We could very much be exceptions because I have heard enough horror stories to realize they are not all blown out of proportion.

 

[WDW1974]

Its safe to say they work properly over 99% of the time

Um, no it is not.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirit, is part of the reason for the delay in opening or even announcing an opening date a reflection of how they feel about this park being a Chinese park (No need or desire to accommodate Americans)?

No. They don't care about Americans or any internationals. Hell, they don't even care about Chinese beyond a few hundred miles because of the huge population in the catchment area. I know people refer to DL, TDL and HKDL as 'locals' parks to a degree, but this is the first park being built where that really is the only audience that will be significant. How much they are catered to remains to be seen, but I would not expect this to be an easy park to plan and visit as an American ... even far less than TDR.

 

[doctornick]

I also think this backlash is the most predictable backlash in history. The movie is too big and too well liked to escape the "it's cool to hate it" columns and comments. Soon there will be a backlash to the backlash, it's a fun cycle.

It's a tired line of complaint because some folks like to get on their high horse and pontificate about the (in their eyes) perceived decline of Western civilization.

Even the most ardent supporters of TFA acknowledge that the film is derivative and has its flaws. The thing is: the film is fun and enjoyable. People are paying to see the film because they enjoy it, not because it is groundbreaking cinema. Nothing about Star Wars has ever been about original stories as the franchise has always used well worn tropes and motifs. So, yes, Alec Guinness is totally right: it's just a fairy tale, with a sci-fi setting. I'm sure that there's some Aarne–Thompson classification scheme that it fits under. It's the packaging that has make it successful and well liked, not the concepts. The fact that it is familiar to past stories is part of the appeal; much like a new take on a basic comfort food.

 

[TeriofTerror]

I think this greatly differs from person to person. I hate the bands, hate MM+, hate NGE (BTW, true costs are now approaching that $3 billion level but they are so spread out that no one but a forensic accountant would ever be able to tell what the price tag was).

BUT ... I own six MAGIC bands. Five are in the box. First one has worked perfectly for two years for all ticketing, FPs and resort doors.

Now, that doesn't mean my experience or yours is the rule. We could very much be exceptions because I have heard enough horror stories to realize they are not all blown out of proportion.

To me, the issue isn't whether or not the bands function properly. They could work flawlessly 100% of the time, but would still be a staggering waste of money. We've watched more and more money get poured down this hole as though we were watching a train wreck: utterly horrified and yet unable to intervene or look away.
Sunk-Cost Fallacy: Reasoning that further investment is warranted on the fact that the resources already invested will be lost otherwise, not taking into consideration the overall losses involved in the further investment. (Sound familiar?)

 

[WDW1974]

People other than Spirit can answer this for me... But I'm a bit flummoxed on what exactly is being destroyed by Star Wars entering DL?

Maybe I'm just not getting the extent of the plans, maybe I'm too optimistic. I just get this feeling of a knee jerk reaction similar to how people reacted to Avatar being the death knell of Animal Kingdom. Obviously sentiment has greatly changed in many (not yet all) corners.

Nothing is leaving DL, the current version of the park will continue to exist now with an extension (outside the berm). I don't get the impression the goal is to destroy sight lines... I'd have a completely different reaction if they were actually getting rid of ROA.

Unless you really rank the canoes being the one and only thing that makes DL so special. Or you are particularly affectionate to Critter Country remaining a dead end. The only true negative seems to be the shorter ride time around the ROA.

So, what am I missing? What is this land destroying at DL that Indy, Star Tour, Toon town, a Swiss Mountain at the end of Main Street etc etc weren't able to?

Why do you need someone other than me to answer? I am the one who put my opinion out. It is shared by many longtime Imagineers and DLers, BTW.

The park was created with an ethos for each land and a purpose. Hot movie franchise bought in an IP pickup by 21st century risk averse CEO land wasn't what Uncle Walt had in mind. Pandora coming to DAK isn't in the same realm as they always planned an area based on imaginary creatures, just so happens they are now giant blue aliens who have $ex with their tails imaginary creatures.

They are cutting a third of the RoA. They will never reopen Fort Wilderness. The DLRR will be significantly rerouted. What is now a tree-covered paradise that is a pressure valve for crowds will become the most crowded place in the park.

None of the examples you provided fundamentally altered what DL was about. Indy was a perfect fit in Adventureland. Star Tours was one attraction in a Tomorrowland. Toontown was a land devoted to Walt's first, and most beloved, creations, the Matterhorn doesn't detract from the story of MS etc.

Some people will never get it. They like SW. Or don't see any value to the Mark Twain, Columbia, TSI and canoes (which are almost assuredly dead). They certainly (Tom Bricker and myself aside) do not see any value in a place to hang with the goats, cows and occasional horse. I'd just advise them to study their history and see that as bad as Frozen in EPCOT is, and it IS, this is multiples worse!

 

[Darth Sidious]

I know this may drive SW fans bonkers (do you really think I care?), but this columnist makes some very, very salient points about The Force Awakens and the entire Hollywood blockbuster model:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hil...the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html

I disagree with the article but I will say you can tell the film suffered a bit from replacing Michael Ardnt so late in the process. JJ, Ardnt and Kasdan have even recently said as much.

I enjoyed the movie and loved Daisy Ridley in the movie. I also think the final shot of the movie was the best of any Star Wars thus far. (It wasn't an Ewok party or a Wookie insensitive medal ceremony)

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

I am so turned on that @WDW1974 is back on MAGIC. You can demolish my forrest for an expansion pad anyday!

 

[ParentsOf4]

I saw those Bloomberg clips of the interview and, oh my, it's cringe inducing watching Iger word-salad his way through. As bad as his "the Chinese haven't built something as complex as a theme park" line was (but hey, at least he was honest about how he (and by extension Disney) feels about the Chinese!), I thought his responses to the ESPN questions were even worse. Whoever briefed him on that report did a lousy job because Iger looked pretty clueless about it. I think its safe to say Iger didn't read it. And if you're going to say that that analyst has been "wrong" about Disney so many times before, why can't you list one or two examples? I'm always weary of people who say there are "numerous examples" of something and then can't cite even one of them.

Iger's defensive has been noted:

Disney's CEO Bob Iger Needs to Talk Straight; Here's Why
By Eric Jackson

After Star Wars had a record opening, Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney (DIS) went on Bloomberg TV last Monday to take a bow. And he was allowed to, mostly.

Iger was asked, however, about an unnamed analyst -- in fact it was Rich Greenfield of BTIG -- who had recently turned negative on the stock and downgraded it to a $90 price target on Friday Dec. 18.

The call looks smart now. Disney was down 4.5% in the week following the release of the new blockbuster that will likely pass Avatar as the biggest grossing film ever.

Iger's comments about Greenfield -- who was never mentioned by name by either him or the TV hosts -- were odd, as he suggested that the analyst had been consistently wrong before on his Disney calls. Therefore, why should anyone believe him now? Iger asked rhetorically: "Where's the accountability for these analyst guys?"

Greenfield's calls on Disney's stock, in fact, have been pretty accurate, as he tweeted out later in the day.

I'm no Greenfield apologist. He hasn't always been right. I remember seeing him on Squawk Box after the August media massacre and he was challenged by Joe Kernan about being negative on Disney. Greenfield advised not shorting Disney then. That might have been a right call then on timing and valuation, but it's the call he's now made in December.

But, let's face it, Iger lashing out at Greenfield irrationally makes him look bad and Greenfield look good. Just what is Iger worried about?

Greenfield's points apparently are hitting the mark. That was demonstrated by Iger's reaction and lack of details in responding to his critics with any specifics about how and when they will go direct to consumer without upsetting his cable and satellite partners.

It would be nice to see Iger have to answer some specific questions about just how he will respond to the issues facing his business. It's not enough to just make statements about a mature business like it will still grow well in the future.​

2016 will be the best financial year ever for TWDC, something for Iger to be proud of. Yet his needless public criticisms of both the Chinese and a lone analyst made Iger appear petty.

 

[flynnibus]

I know this may drive SW fans bonkers (do you really think I care?), but this columnist makes some very, very salient points about The Force Awakens and the entire Hollywood blockbuster model:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hil...the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html

I hate it when 6 pages of an article can be summarized by 3-4 lines. The best line out of the whole thing was calling it 'plagiarism'

I just sat down and watched Revenge of the Sith last night.. and it does the nod to the past correctly. Like showing ships in their evolutions before they get to what we know from the OT. Like the scene on tatotinee where they drop luke off.. And the sound track is worlds better. It uses hints and themes from the earlier movies but builds their own tracks. It only uses the main choruses from the OT sparingly. Unlike TFA, which is the inverse.

 

[Rodan75]

Iger's defensive has been noted:

Disney's CEO Bob Iger Needs to Talk Straight; Here's Why
By Eric Jackson

After Star Wars had a record opening, Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney (DIS) went on Bloomberg TV last Monday to take a bow. And he was allowed to, mostly.

Iger was asked, however, about an unnamed analyst -- in fact it was Rich Greenfield of BTIG -- who had recently turned negative on the stock and downgraded it to a $90 price target on Friday Dec. 18.

The call looks smart now. Disney was down 4.5% in the week following the release of the new blockbuster that will likely pass Avatar as the biggest grossing film ever.

Iger's comments about Greenfield -- who was never mentioned by name by either him or the TV hosts -- were odd, as he suggested that the analyst had been consistently wrong before on his Disney calls. Therefore, why should anyone believe him now? Iger asked rhetorically: "Where's the accountability for these analyst guys?"

Greenfield's calls on Disney's stock, in fact, have been pretty accurate, as he tweeted out later in the day.

I'm no Greenfield apologist. He hasn't always been right. I remember seeing him on Squawk Box after the August media massacre and he was challenged by Joe Kernan about being negative on Disney. Greenfield advised not shorting Disney then. That might have been a right call then on timing and valuation, but it's the call he's now made in December.

But, let's face it, Iger lashing out at Greenfield irrationally makes him look bad and Greenfield look good. Just what is Iger worried about?

Greenfield's points apparently are hitting the mark. That was demonstrated by Iger's reaction and lack of details in responding to his critics with any specifics about how and when they will go direct to consumer without upsetting his cable and satellite partners.

It would be nice to see Iger have to answer some specific questions about just how he will respond to the issues facing his business. It's not enough to just make statements about a mature business like it will still grow well in the future.​

2016 will be the best financial year ever for TWDC, something for Iger to be proud of. Yet his needless public criticisms of both the Chinese and a lone analyst made Iger appear petty.

I agree with the original writer, however, Iger makes a good point that the writer could/should have gone into. These analysts have outsized power and based on my experience do very little research into the companies they are tasked with monitoring.

That goes on both sides of the Disney issue, with analysts expecting SW to bring outsized growth while also ignoring and then exaggerating the ESPN subscriber issues. It doesn't take a genius to know that linear TV has lost net subs over the last 3-5 years and with ESPN at 95-99% of linear TV subs, you know that ESPN has lost subscribers in alignment to Cable/Sat/IPTV providers.

It's as if these 'analysts' skim the press releases and call it 'research' and you have the economy riding on these idiot analysts and the Journalists who report the analyst opinions as fact.

 

[Rodan75]

Iger's defensive has been noted:

Disney's CEO Bob Iger Needs to Talk Straight; Here's Why
By Eric Jackson

After Star Wars had a record opening, Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney (DIS) went on Bloomberg TV last Monday to take a bow. And he was allowed to, mostly.

Iger was asked, however, about an unnamed analyst -- in fact it was Rich Greenfield of BTIG -- who had recently turned negative on the stock and downgraded it to a $90 price target on Friday Dec. 18.

The call looks smart now. Disney was down 4.5% in the week following the release of the new blockbuster that will likely pass Avatar as the biggest grossing film ever.

Iger's comments about Greenfield -- who was never mentioned by name by either him or the TV hosts -- were odd, as he suggested that the analyst had been consistently wrong before on his Disney calls. Therefore, why should anyone believe him now? Iger asked rhetorically: "Where's the accountability for these analyst guys?"

Greenfield's calls on Disney's stock, in fact, have been pretty accurate, as he tweeted out later in the day.

I'm no Greenfield apologist. He hasn't always been right. I remember seeing him on Squawk Box after the August media massacre and he was challenged by Joe Kernan about being negative on Disney. Greenfield advised not shorting Disney then. That might have been a right call then on timing and valuation, but it's the call he's now made in December.

But, let's face it, Iger lashing out at Greenfield irrationally makes him look bad and Greenfield look good. Just what is Iger worried about?

Greenfield's points apparently are hitting the mark. That was demonstrated by Iger's reaction and lack of details in responding to his critics with any specifics about how and when they will go direct to consumer without upsetting his cable and satellite partners.

It would be nice to see Iger have to answer some specific questions about just how he will respond to the issues facing his business. It's not enough to just make statements about a mature business like it will still grow well in the future.​

2016 will be the best financial year ever for TWDC, something for Iger to be proud of. Yet his needless public criticisms of both the Chinese and a lone analyst made Iger appear petty.

I also have to say, Iger has let this situation get the better of him. Both on the stock price and Shanghai. There are probably 3-4 better approaches he could have gone with. He triggered, rightfully in my opinion, the concern on linear subs since most of the analysts hadn't noticed it on their own. Those concerns have really dug into TW and Via more deeply than DIS. But Iger's behavior since then has been indefensible.

 

[Nmoody1]

I think it's super sad that Star Wars isn't being given enough space for future expansion - we are talking about a franchise that could easily fill at least half a theme park... If not a full one.

The loss of Big Thunder Ranch and BBQ as well as the tranquil spaces along the river of America and the serene views of the railroad will alter that area of the park forever. This is not the expansion we were looking for.

I'll also add I visited DL on xmas day and it was a complete shambles... I imagine a test run for what the next year will be like... In one day Hyperspace Mountain closed twice, Big thunder for 2 hours, Indy for at least 3 hours, pirates and matterhorn had down time and mickey and the magical map cancelled all shows that day....and people say WDW isn't up to scratch... it would seem that DL maintenance, at least for xmas day, relapsed to the Paul Presser days! Prepare to be dazzled screams the 60th marketing... I was.... dazzled by how bad it was!

I will add that DCA really does have it right! The management over there really does listen to feedback and pulls out all the stops for entertainment. VIVA NAVIDAD was great. The holiday bell ringers and tree lighting were also great. Had another amazing meal at Carthay Circle... and whilst I love the offering and the quality of food, $230 for lunch in a theme park you pay $100+ to enter is a little steep. They did throw in free world of color viewing - a nice little touch!

Eating breakfast at Flows or River Belle Terace, you have to wonder why WDW can't serve food on real plates with real cutlery... and quality quick service options. I'd kill for some of the mexican/Asian offerings at WDW!

 

[Next Big Thing]

Why? What exactly will they stop or prevent? Do you think they'll be more effective than our TSA, which fails nine times out of 10 to detect weapons? They should do away with the bag checks and gates entirely.

Take the charade money and use it toward real security.

Well, considering Universal, Disney and SeaWorld and parks like Knott's ALL added Detectors on the SAME day, i'd assume it's being mandated by the government in some way.

So that's why. It doesn't help anything. If someone wants to do something, they will. It just stops the stupid people and maybe catch a few more people from bringing in alcohol to MK.

 

[thehowiet]

you have to wonder why WDW can't serve food on real plates with real cutlery... and quality quick service options. I'd kill for some of the mexican/Asian offerings at WDW!

I thought the exact same thing during my first visit to DL summer 2014. The quick service options there were a welcome change from the seemingly identical menu items you find at WDW. The breakfast I had at Flo's and the lunch I had at Cocina Cucamonga were two of the best quick service meals I've had in a theme park.

I also share your sentiments about DCA, as I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed spending time in that park.

As far as DL, I'll just say I'm extremely glad we got in a visit before the upcoming changes.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I know this may drive SW fans bonkers (do you really think I care?), but this columnist makes some very, very salient points about The Force Awakens and the entire Hollywood blockbuster model:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hil...the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html

That was frelling brilliant, thank you. I have yet to see the film, and frankly don't plan to. Not just for the reasons stated here earlier (no spoilers, although...really? The thing's been out for weeks), but because friends of mine who have seen it were disappointed. One of them told me, "If you've seen 'New Hope', you've seen 'The Force Awakens'" and NOBODY said they liked the new characters. So why bother?

Also, this quote from the article: Sitting in the theater at "Avatar," I felt like I was being pounded into submission by a giant hedge fund.

One of the best sentences I have ever read.

 

[Cesar R M]

I have heard enough horror stories to realize they are not all blown out of proportion.

A lot of people are pretty blind, will be "but this never happened to us, therefore.. never happened to anybody" when others talk about their bad experiences.. until it happens to them of course (and take them from their cloud)..

 

[evilzorac]

Why do you need someone other than me to answer? I am the one who put my opinion out. It is shared by many longtime Imagineers and DLers, BTW.

The park was created with an ethos for each land and a purpose. Hot movie franchise bought in an IP pickup by 21st century risk averse CEO land wasn't what Uncle Walt had in mind. Pandora coming to DAK isn't in the same realm as they always planned an area based on imaginary creatures, just so happens they are now giant blue aliens who have $ex with their tails imaginary creatures.

They are cutting a third of the RoA. They will never reopen Fort Wilderness. The DLRR will be significantly rerouted. What is now a tree-covered paradise that is a pressure valve for crowds will become the most crowded place in the park.

None of the examples you provided fundamentally altered what DL was about. Indy was a perfect fit in Adventureland. Star Tours was one attraction in a Tomorrowland. Toontown was a land devoted to Walt's first, and most beloved, creations, the Matterhorn doesn't detract from the story of MS etc.

Some people will never get it. They like SW. Or don't see any value to the Mark Twain, Columbia, TSI and canoes (which are almost assuredly dead). They certainly (Tom Bricker and myself aside) do not see any value in a place to hang with the goats, cows and occasional horse. I'd just advise them to study their history and see that as bad as Frozen in EPCOT is, and it IS, this is multiples worse!

Spirit I may be late to the party but I see comedian Andy Richter has been ranting about these changes on twitter and how they will ruin this quiet and unique area for his kids.

 

[Smiddimizer]

Is he still alive and part of the fan community? I forgot all about him while watching Tommy Boi (apparently he was left at the altar or something like that) explode his personal life all over the Twitters this fall.

He's probably in self-imposed exile on some rock off the coast of Ireland....I mean, some distant planet. And that would be a new low for that Amity tool, if that's who you're referring to (I seem to recall you using the same nickname for the director of the Parks Blog...nah, couldn't be him)

 

[Smiddimizer]

I am so turned on that @WDW1974 is back on MAGIC. You can demolish my forrest for an expansion pad anyday!

Even if the train ride is a little shorter than it used to be?