A Spirited Perfect Ten

alissafalco

alissafalco

Well-Known Member
Jim Hill said:
That's the key difference between you and I, Lee. Over the past 30 years of covering The Walt Disney Company specifically and the entertainment industry in general, I have -- from time to time -- been handed incredibly juicy information. Stuff that could have ruined marriages, ended careers and -- yes -- sent people to jail. But in my case, my first thought was (and still is) "Would this story actually worth that? Will the kudos that I'd receive for sharing this salacious bit of news actually be worth the collateral damage that'll occur once this info gets out in the world?"

That's the difference between a reporter and a gossip, Lee. What you've been doing here over the past four days -- especially in response to the WDWMagic readers who've pushed back. Who were really put off by the tone of your initial posts in this thread. Which showed how giddy and eager you were to share this extremely embarrassing piece of news -- is just above scribbling nasty stuff about me on a public bathroom wall.

Okay. So it was true nasty stuff. But since you now feel the need to repeatedly defend yourself in this forum because of all that push-back you've gotten, you've now shared to the point that you've over-shared. The information that you've added to this discussion thread over the past 12 hours hasn't helped your argument / defense at all. If anything, it's undermined it.

Look, Lee. Take a little advice. You can't ever build yourself up by tearing someone else down. You've successfully shamed & publicly humiliated me. Anything that you say or do from this point forward will be seen as overkill. I mean, I know about all of the PMs that are flying back & forth behind-the-scenes at this site that are 90% in support of me and 10% in your favor. At this point, if you continue to pursue this matter, you won't be ruining my reputation. You'll just be doing further damage to your own.

So in the immortal words of Elsa, "Let It Go ... " Just accept that you're not good at playing the crusading journalist. Because if that's what you were shooting for here, the impression you've left a lot of people at WDWMagic with is that you're a nasty gossip. So please go back to just talking about the Disney Parks, okay? Because that's something that you're actually good at.
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Don't kill the messenger..
 
CinematicFusion

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Star Wars The Force Awakens is awesome!
Audience gave George Lucas a standing ovation. Thought it was a nice touch

Patton Oswalt "JJ did it!"
Chris hardwick was seen speaking to Favreau saying his brain just melted.
The maker of the Kurt cobain documentary said it delivers on every level and in his opinion is the best blockbuster since 1977.

There...little hype to start your day.
 
xdan0920

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Lee said:
Here is the distinction, missed by many:

Disney employees people with criminal records. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that.

However, how many people would Disney employee if their crimes were against Disney?
I guarantee you, it's very likely none.

THAT is the distinction. That a guy they quote on DVD boxes and invite to D23 panels committed crimes against them.

As I said earlier, if he had Winstoned some crab legs from Publix, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Why is the distinction important?

The only thing I can think of, would be if you think that Disney somehow conspired with Jim that they would allow him back on property, and to "cover" the parks beat, but only if he was relentlessly positive. Is that it?

Otherwise, what is the relevant discussion you were looking to have?

I have only read a couple things from Jim, and quite frankly his posts here nearly equate to the total number of words I've read of his prior to this episode. And I have only ever had pleasant interactions with you here. So, If anything, I would be inclined to side with you. The way everything has gone down here though, I find myself siding with Jim and just wishing this whole embarrassing episode hadn't occurred at all. Or at the very least had been relegated to micechat or something.
 
J

Jim Hill

Member
Just wanted to leave you folks with one final thought before I head off to Boston to catch the press screening of a certain movie.th

Lee keeps saying -- over & over again -- that this isn't personal. That he's just posting this info to be accurate. But do you remember the story that Lee shared about how he was first made aware of my stay with Orange County. I've pulled the pertinent chunk out of his posting from Friday:

The person who brought it to my attention is/was a Disney CM who has had ''interactions'' with Jim dating back many years. They have been shocked by the way Disney (and Universal, to a lesser degree) seem to value him. They only decided to give this stuff to me because they said over the last year or so, Jim has become ''unbearable'' to deal with. "He thinks we owe him the world" and acts like Bob Iger ''who likely has never heard of him'' is his golfing buddy.

There's just one problem with the above anecdote. The last time I was down at Walt Disney World for a press event was late April / early May of 2014. That was for the official opening of the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.

So if I'm doing the math correctly here, it's been over 18 months since I had any dealing with WDW Cast Members at press events or the like. So -- keeping that in mind -- how exactly could I become "unbearable" to deal with over the past year or so? Wouldn't I have had to been on property for a significant amount of time in 2014 & 2015 and had lots of dealings with Cast Members in order to suddenly come across as though I thought of myself as Bob Iger's golfing buddy?

As I see it, there are two possible explanations for this obviously false story. 1) Whoever gave Lee my arrest info tacked on this additional tale about my alleged bad behavior. So that Lee would then feel that he had additional justification for posting this info on the WDWMagic discussion boards. Or 2) Lee made the classic rookie mistake of trying to "improve" an already good story.

So now one has to wonder: Was Lee just a pasty who bought this story he was told about my alleged recent bad behavior and then posted it here without first bothering to try and see if it was true? Or did he just make up this additional story out of whole cloth to help justify his decision to post my arrest record here on WDWMagic.

Whatever the case, this new bit of info does make one question whether Lee actually knows what the word "accuracy" means.
 
Nemo14

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
th
 
Irie

Irie

Well-Known Member
Since the intent of the original story, according to Lee, was not to smear an individual (and since we all know by now who we are referring to), why not refrain from using his full name (I realize this is made tougher by the individual responding). We can use initials, first name or the pronouns he and him. This way both sides of the argument can be made without adding more g**gle hits to his name.
 
G

Garfield

Member
Like all things in life, one's opinion on a subject is largely based on personal experiences. When this discussion started, my opinion was that it was not directed at the individual, but rather on the company and it's policies. (If it was or wasn't has been discussed at length, and obviously the discussion went in other directions). I have a background of nearly 40 years in retail management with a major company that has over 300 retail locations. If a customer, employee or outside vendor (supplier) had been arrested for theft, no matter the type or dollar value, AND also given a 'no-trespass' notice, they would never be hired by the company I worked for, no matter how long ago the incident occurred. If we found out they became employed by one of our suppliers/vendors, they would never be allowed to come into our store, or any of our other locations while working for that vendor. In fact, the company I worked for had enough clout with it's vendors that the person would likely never even be hired by the vendor, even if our store was not one of their accounts. This last scenario is what I understood the original discussion to be about. I know this thought is not what several on this board had, but I truly saw it as a policy issue when first posted. After that is when things turned personal. I was very surprised to hear of the previous incident involving a person, and that today that person has such access to and receives such recognition from the very company that charged him. In the retail/corporate world I worked in, no matter how long ago it happened, he would never would, and will never have any access to the company.
 
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xdan0920

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Garfield said:
Like all things in life, one's opinion on a subject is largely based on personal experiences. When this discussion started, my opinion was that it was not directed at the individual, but rather on the company and it's policies. (If it was or wasn't has been discussed at length, and obviously the discussion went in other directions). I have a background of nearly 40 years in retail management with a major company that has over 300 retail locations. If a customer, employee or outside vendor (supplier) had been arrested for theft, no matter the type or dollar value, AND also given a 'no-trespass' notice, they would never be hired by the company I worked for, no matter how long ago the incident occurred. If we found out they became employed by one of our suppliers/vendors, they would never be allowed to come into our store while working for that vendor. In fact, the company I worked for had enough clout with it's vendors that the person would likely never even get a job with one of our vendors, even if our store was not one of their accounts. This last scenario is what I understood the original discussion to be about. I know this thought is not what several on this board had, but I truly saw it as a policy issue when first posted. After that is when things turned personal. I was very surprised to hear of the previous incident involving a person, and that today that person has such access to and receives such recognition from the very company that charged him. In the retail/corporate world I worked in, no matter how long ago it happened, he would never would, and will never have any access to the company.
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Nonsense. Your anecdote has basically no relation to the topic at hand. You wouldn't hire someone who stole from you. Okay, I'll buy that, though, I know for a 100% fact that a lot of companies do give second chances. Now you want me to believe your company also controls the hiring processes of outside vendors? Let's say for example you work for 7-11. You can stop FritoLay from hiring some waterhead who stole from a 7-11? I don't think so.

Anyhoo

@Jim Hill can write about Disney, and Disney can do exactly bupkus to stop him. Now, he developed a following, and grew a little bit of a sphere of influence, so rather then hold some awkward grudge against him, he was allowed some limited amount of access. Invite to press events, that sort of thing.

Disney doesn't sign his paycheck. They simply invite a guy with a pretty decent readership to press events.

Again, I ask, what is the discussion point?
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
CinematicFusion said:
Star Wars The Force Awakens is awesome!
Audience gave George Lucas a standing ovation. Thought it was a nice touch

Patton Oswalt "JJ did it!"
Chris hardwick was seen speaking to Favreau saying his brain just melted.
The maker of the Kurt cobain documentary said it delivers on every level and in his opinion is the best blockbuster since 1977.

There...little hype to start your day.
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Finally something interesting, can't wait to see it!!!!!!!!!! :D
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Jim Hill said:
Sorry, PhotoDave219. I know that I shouldn't respond to this stuff. What's that old George Bernard Shaw saying? "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." But to my way of thinking, Lee rally crossed a line earlier this evening. And then when he refused to accept responsibility for posting all of this stuff, when he attempted to shift blame to whoever it was who told him how to access my Orange County files, that just made my blood boil. And then to go through this charade of saying that "I'm-not-posting-all-of-this-stuff-because-I'm-looking-to-publicly-shame-and-humiliate-Jim-Hill.-I'm-just-trying-to-start-an-honest-conversation-about-how-Disney-interacts-with-bloggers" ... I just couldn't sit by tonight and let Lee do that. I had to directly confront him. And you saw what happened right after that. Bang! Zoom! He scampered for the exits.

Which -- given that it's almost 1 a.m. here now on the East Coast -- is what I should probably doing as well. Thanks to all of you WDWMagic posters who have challenged Lee / pushed back against how he's handled the release of all that extremely embarrassing information from two decades ago.

I mean, I'm a big boy. I actually did all of that incredibly stupid and self-destructive stuff that you folks have read in those files. So I'm perfectly willing to take responsibility for that behavior. But the way Lee was handling the release of this information, he wasn't just looking to run some salt in my wounds. He wanted to shove the entire Great Salt Lake in there. And at some point, you just have to push back when someone's behaving as badly like that.
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I didn't read them. I'm actually one of the people who isn't thinking this is a big deal.

I'm just trying to move the conversation forward and onto more things.

Like the hub. Hate the new light poles but the new functionality is undeniable.

Or the Star Wars launch bay - actually very nice, the photos don't do it justice.

Or the latest incarnation of "metal detectors are coming to Disney" rumor, which given the source, I'm not giving much credibility.

Or any of the Other things people are righteously indignant about today.

What I don't care about? This little row that you and @Lee are involved in. It's turning into a damn soap opera and typical message board drama.

So at this point can you two take it to PMs while the rest of us debate the merits of the stock price rocketing up on Friday? Thanks.
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
An interesting story from earlier this year. I have trouble understanding why a company who would so quickly ban someone for life for making a terrible joke would want to be associated so publicly with an individual who has committed real crimes against them.
http://orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/arch...ey-hotel-room-gets-raided-and-banned-for-life
Florida dad jokes about building meth lab in Disney hotel room, gets raided and banned for life

Over Labor Day weekend, David Swindler, a St. Augustine resident who loves Jesus, his family and Disney in that order, had his hotel room raided and was banned from Disney resorts for life because he made a bad joke about a meth lab.

According to First Coast News, while Swindler and his family were staying at the Pop Century resort, the vacationing dad grew impatient with a Disney cast member and joked that he could build a meth lab in his hotel room by the time he got some room service.

"My first and foremost love is Jesus Christ, then my family and then Disney," Swindler said to First Coast News, "I accept responsibility for saying that, don't know where it came from. Don't know why I said meth lab, I should have said, 'I was going to build an atomic bomb,' or something else. I didn't think anyone would take me seriously."'

Unfortunately for Swindler, his joke was taken literally and later that night his hotel room was raided by Disney security and Orange County Sheriff's deputies.

Even though authorities found zero traces of meth or meth-related equipment, his entire family was booted from the resort and now Swindler is banned for life.

Swindler has been told to file an appeal with Disney security, who has since issued him a trespassing warning for all properties, reports First Coast News.

"This has not taken away my love for Disney," said Swindler. "It was a figure of speech. I wish I could take it back."
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http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/2015/09/17/man-banned-disney-world-meth-lab-goof/32540743/
 
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disneyflush

disneyflush

Well-Known Member
Its odd that WDW1974 hasn't posted any kind of support for his friend on a topic he has spent a good deal of time and energy shouting to the masses for years. I'm sure he has good reason to not be in here and I wouldn't expect anyone to invade someone else's privacy or expose anything about him that he wouldn't like to share with the masses at this time. Which is fairly ironic I guess.
 

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