A Spirited Perfect Ten

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
WALT DISNEY – PART 1
1) “Walt Disney had a Dark Soul that he spent a lifetime fighting in an attempt to find the light.”

Skimming through the thread I saw this and actually laughed out loud. Then I saw that Neal Gabler said it and it made perfect sense. Personally I thought his book ws garbage and when I watch and listen to him talk about it interviews I get the impressions he really does think he knows and understands Walt Disney better than anyone else. Histrionic is the perfect term to describe Neal Gabler.

I haven't seen the documentary, we have a version of PBS here in the UK but I can't see the Disney documentary listed for broadcast anywhere. I hope to see it eventually though I'm not sure what to expect having read several differing opinions on it.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
And you are awesome for doing so.
So many people, groups, teams, religions.. wants to parents to program their kids at the groups's convenience.
Nothing damages more a person than being brainwashed into a dumb precooked fake "truth".
In my opinion Cesar, you pretty much just described all organized religion. Spirituality is miles different then force fed information. I don't feel the need to put someone down that do need that type of structure and reassurance, I just choose to follow my own thoughts. I'll let someone know when I need help with my beliefs.
 

216bruce

Well-Known Member
I'll ask this here because it seems to be the most active thread discussion-wise on the documentary...Any idea why past interviews with folks who knew and worked with Walt wasn't used? Like those with folks who have passed? And please don't answer with tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. Was it the producers and PBS policy to just use their original stuff? Rights? Time and money? I assume that if the production team had complete access to the archives that it must have existed there for their use. Input from folks like Ward Kimball, Babbitt, Marc Davis or any of the other old or long-time employees sure would have helped and I'm sure that it would have been enlightening. Maybe those of you who went to the D23 panel on this could shed some light. I, for one, would have loved to hear Art Babbitt, and especially Ward Kimball chime in on Walt. I know the stuff exists.
You probably could have ended up in the same place as you did and used their input as opposed to the 'biographer' perspective and maybe critics of the piece would give it more legitimacy.

For what it's worth, I discount somewhat the family input on the doc. I mean, if it was your dad or father-in-law you are inherently quite biased when someone tries to make a program like this about them. No one wants to see family painted in any kind of a negative light AT ALL, so I understand Diane's dislike of the Gabler book (which while it had a lot of factual inaccuracies, I didn't find as damning as it's often portrayed to be).
If you don't try and get to the core of an individual in a documentary, you are left with a list of accomplishments, facts, dates, etc. That's pretty boring and hard to watch over four hours and nothing is really learned or at least discovered. There's a lot of invoking of "If Ken Burns had only made this" out there. Well, he has a ton of supposition and a very pointed view in any of his documentaries too, along with omissions and errors. As a baseball history nut and jazz fan, I can assure you of that with his "Baseball" and "Jazz" series. But his stuff is still brilliant, engaging, enlightening and fosters discussion. In the end, that's what I liked about "American Experience". It made people discuss someone who's been dead for nearly 50 years, brought to life someone who some younger folks thought was a corporate icon, ala' Ronald McDonald. Now if folks could only get off the conspiracy bandwagon.....
By the way...Photo Dave...you da man!
 

alissafalco

Well-Known Member
Skimming through the thread I saw this and actually laughed out loud. Then I saw that Neal Gabler said it and it made perfect sense. Personally I thought his book ws garbage and when I watch and listen to him talk about it interviews I get the impressions he really does think he knows and understands Walt Disney better than anyone else. Histrionic is the perfect term to describe Neal Gabler.

I haven't seen the documentary, we have a version of PBS here in the UK but I can't see the Disney documentary listed for broadcast anywhere. I hope to see it eventually though I'm not sure what to expect having read several differing opinions on it.
Im pretty sure you can find it online somewhere. Maybe the PBS website? But Im not sure, someone posted it was. Maybe someone else knows where to find it.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Just a little… I expected better from him. He knows it's not a hit job and he knows PBS has nothing to do with the company on that one…
I don't think he is saying that the company and PBS were in collusion.
More along the lines of the company knowing the tone of the piece and unofficially condoning it by not getting involved. Thereby continuing their agenda of promoting the BRAND over the man.

At least that's how it has been communicated to me...
 

DisneyOutsider

Well-Known Member
I don't think he is saying that the company and PBS were in collusion.
More along the lines of the company knowing the tone of the piece and unofficially condoning it by not getting involved. Thereby continuing their agenda of promoting the BRAND over the man.

At least that's how it has been communicated to me...

"The folks behind this presentation..."

Sounds to me that he is suggesting a little more than just a passive approval.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
I'll ask this here because it seems to be the most active thread discussion-wise on the documentary...Any idea why past interviews with folks who knew and worked with Walt wasn't used? Like those with folks who have passed? And please don't answer with tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. Was it the producers and PBS policy to just use their original stuff? Rights? Time and money? I assume that if the production team had complete access to the archives that it must have existed there for their use. Input from folks like Ward Kimball, Babbitt, Marc Davis or any of the other old or long-time employees sure would have helped and I'm sure that it would have been enlightening. Maybe those of you who went to the D23 panel on this could shed some light. I, for one, would have loved to hear Art Babbitt, and especially Ward Kimball chime in on Walt. I know the stuff exists.
You probably could have ended up in the same place as you did and used their input as opposed to the 'biographer' perspective and maybe critics of the piece would give it more legitimacy.

Are you familiar with Didier Ghez's series of books called Walt's People. It's the raw interviews taken by various journalists and others, with various people who had associations with Disney about various subjects. I know Vol 3 has some stuff about the strike and some interviews with Babbitt about the strike (and other people) but I think there is more in other volume's too.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I don't think he is saying that the company and PBS were in collusion.
More along the lines of the company knowing the tone of the piece and unofficially condoning it by not getting involved. Thereby continuing their agenda of promoting the BRAND over the man.

At least that's how it has been communicated to me...

Well that much I agree with. TWDC is more than happy to have their own history of what Walt did and is similarly more than happy for people to forget about the man and his standards.
 

VJ

Well-Known Member
I love Walt and what he's done, everyone who knows me knows that. But, that said, there's a quote by the man himself that explains my thoughts on American Experience: Walt Disney perfectly.
"Life is composed of lights and shadows, and we would be untruthful, insincere, and saccharine if we tried to pretend there were no shadows."
Walt Disney wasn't perfect. People need to realize that. He was a great guy, definitely. But he wasn't perfect. I appreciate PBS for giving us a different look at Walt than the norm, whether it's true or not. Plus, I was expecting the documentary to be even more scathing towards Walt; I'm happy they struck a happy balance between glowing and scathing that ultimately worked well.
 

zooey

Well-Known Member
I don't think he is saying that the company and PBS were in collusion.
More along the lines of the company knowing the tone of the piece and unofficially condoning it by not getting involved. Thereby continuing their agenda of promoting the BRAND over the man.

At least that's how it has been communicated to me...
But haven't they irrevocably tied the brand to the man? I mean, there is no shortage of Walt in the parks, official books about Walt, walt quotes being posted on social media etc. I just don't see how distancing the legacy of Walt from the Disney brand doesn't have negative repercussions... I honestly think they thought it would be more history and less opinion, but PBS knew that the opinion would sell the thing so they went with that. Plus, it's almost catch 22 situation. Do you deny an esteemed institution like American Experience access so they can control the narrative that Disney is trying to hide something, or do you let it happen and say see we have nothing to hide and we're proud of our founder? I think they had to let them make it once they came knocking.
 

216bruce

Well-Known Member
Are you familiar with Didier Ghez's series of books called Walt's People. It's the raw interviews taken by various journalists and others, with various people who had associations with Disney about various subjects. I know Vol 3 has some stuff about the strike and some interviews with Babbitt about the strike (and other people) but I think there is more in other volume's too.
Very familiar. I transcribed some of the articles for Didier. Vol. 3 was a long time ago and I didn't remember. I'll check it out. Thanks.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
But haven't they irrevocably tied the brand to the man? I mean, there is no shortage of Walt in the parks, official books about Walt, walt quotes being posted on social media etc. I just don't see how distancing the legacy of Walt from the Disney brand doesn't have negative repercussions... I honestly think they thought it would be more history and less opinion, but PBS knew that the opinion would sell the thing so they went with that. Plus, it's almost catch 22 situation. Do you deny an esteemed institution like American Experience access so they can control the narrative that Disney is trying to hide something, or do you let it happen and say see we have nothing to hide and we're proud of our founder? I think they had to let them make it once they came knocking.
Disney, the company, has been turning Walt into a character, not unlike a Colonel Sanders. You can only really go about that if you have the opportunity to make the case that Walt Disney, the man, is "problematic" and thus needs to be recontextualized as just some guy and not connected to the legacy of the modern day Disney Company and the BRAND. This is one of the key reasons why the fan community, and anyone who cares about history, should be outraged that the Disney company, after shutting its archives to academics for almost ten years, uses it as a means of endorsing projects which legitimize opinion based interpretations of Walt with the goal of discrediting him.
 

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