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A Spirited Perfect Ten

bhg469

Well-Known Member
Kinda weird how the attendance seems to take a dip in the first few years after a new park opens, at least according to that graph. Maybe people are assuming it will be overly packed due to the grand opening, and stay away to let the "new" wear off for a year or so.

Or maybe I'm just interpreting the graph wrong...
Could be, or people hear spout the opening and delay their trips to make sure the park is in fact open by then and avoid being let down by any delays. That's also just a guess.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Marvel, a MAGICal friend sent me this link earlier:

https://falconstreehouse.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/avengers-battle-of-ultron-attraction/

It would seem Disney is continuing to mine the Marvel BRAND in licensing deals (I believe but am not 100% positive that this development is what came out of the 2007-09 era plans for an entire full-realized Marvel theme park that was going to be built in Dubai before Disney bought the company). ... So while Disney would never build in the UAE, they don't have any issues with one of their prized acquisitions being used there. Sorta like the hypocrisy over the continued use of Marvel IP in slot machines and other gambling enterprises while pretending that gambling isn't family friendly for Florida when Wynn, MGM, Genting, LVS etc want to open destination resorts in the Miami Beach area.

The deal with IMG Worlds of Adventure predates Disney's acquisition of Marvel.

Some of the concepts have changed over the years to reflect what is popular in Marvel these days, but the licensing deal has not. Nothing hypocritical about it - unless you blame Disney for still allowing Marvel Island in IOA. I have similar thoughts on the gambling thing, but I stated that many moons ago in a distant iteration of Spirited thread.

The IMG project continues to chug along sllllooowwwwly, but it is being built.
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
It has the unfortunate distinction of being released in the wake of Inside Out. Not an easy act to follow.

I know I'm in the minority, but the trailers just look like second- or third-tier Pixar to me. The character designs reminds me of Aardman claymation. The story that the trailer is telling looks awfully by-the-numbers. Hope there's more to the final cut.
Wasn't this movie in trouble awhile back? It's release date moved back to correct some issues? Any chance this replaces Ellen's Energy? A 45 minute ride is a bit much unless it's Star Wars.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
It has the unfortunate distinction of being released in the wake of Inside Out. Not an easy act to follow.

I know I'm in the minority, but the trailers just look like second- or third-tier Pixar to me. The character designs reminds me of Aardman claymation. The story that the trailer is telling looks awfully by-the-numbers. Hope there's more to the final cut.

Possibly the result of massive re-designs.
The character designs might well have been tossed, but the work on the environmental effects, especially foliage, would have likely been undisturbed.

It's created a bit of a jarring aesthetic mis-match.
Imagine seeing a Disney movie that used character cels from the Emperors New Groove on the backgrounds from Tarzan.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Kinda weird how the attendance seems to take a dip in the first few years after a new park opens, at least according to that graph. Maybe people are assuming it will be overly packed due to the grand opening, and stay away to let the "new" wear off for a year or so.
My chart shows per park attendance, or the average attendance per theme park.

Each time a WDW theme park opened in the past, there was a multi-million jump in total WDW attendance. However, per park attendance dipped because of the large expansion.

DAK's initial performance was disappointing but I blame that on perception; Disney spent years battling the zoo image, trying to convince the public that DAK was not a zoo. Disney won't make that mistake with a 5th WDW theme park

In the past, per theme park attendance has climbed to around 12-13 million before another park was added. This year's per theme park attendance will be above that, with no new theme park on the horizon. WDW is going to get increasingly crowded.

My projection assumes an average of 1% annual attendance growth to 2025. The reality is that there will be at least one recession between now and 2025 (probably 2), dampening attendance, while WDW typically can be expected to rebound 5% or more post recession. Add in the major investment to be made at WDW in popular IPs in the next 6 years, and 1% annual growth probably is on the conservative side.

The upcoming DHS redo is desperately needed and is the right next step. However, looking beyond that, WDW should warrant a 5th theme park some time in the middle of next decade.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
My chart shows per park attendance, or the average attendance per theme park.

Each time a WDW theme park opened in the past, there was a multi-million jump in total WDW attendance. However, per park attendance dipped because of the large expansion.

DAK's initial performance was disappointing but I blame that on perception; Disney spent years battling the zoo image, trying to convince the public that DAK was not a zoo. Disney won't make that mistake with a 5th WDW theme park

In the past, per theme park attendance has climbed to around 12-13 million before another park was added. This year's per theme park attendance will be above that, with no new theme park on the horizon. WDW is going to get increasingly crowded.

My projection assumes an average of 1% annual attendance growth to 2025. The reality is that there will be at least one recession between now and 2025 (probably 2), dampening attendance, while WDW typically can be expected to rebound 5% or more post recession. Add in the major investment to be made at WDW in popular IPs in the next 6 years, and 1% annual growth probably is on the conservative side.

The upcoming DHS redo is desperately needed and is the right next step. However, looking beyond that, WDW should warrant a 5th theme park some time in the middle of next decade.
But you're looking at an average that is not at all close to individual park attendance patterns. Nor does current crowding exist in a state where existing capacity is fully utilized.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
And the really scary thing is that we know the crowds will be heavily weighted towards MK, even with the construction in other parks. Imagine what the MK will look like in 2025! They need every penny of the $350M and the Frontierland money.
I'm not much of an armchair Imagineer but I believe the Magic Kingdom should get out of the parade and nighttime show business, and that a 5th theme park should be designed specifically to handle large crowds for parades and nighttime fireworks.

Purists will hate it but, operationally, I believe it's the direction the Magic Kingdom has to go.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
I'll have you know that my rain gauge said we got 0.92 inches of rain on Sunday! To make East Coasters understand, the average monthly July rainfall for Villa Park/Anaheim Hills is 0.01 inches, or statistically nothing. Sunday's rain broke monthly records dating back to the 1860's. And since the rain happened before 5 o'clock, I was only drinking a raspberry lemonade. :(



The OC Register did a great job on Disneyland's 60th, both in print and online. They were giving out free copies of the Register at Disneyland on Friday. I grabbed one and am glad I did.
DSC_1794-M.jpg


The park guidemaps that day were also a special treat, and not just because they came with an I Was There button.
60thmaps-1-M.jpg

When you unfolded the Disneyland guidemap, it was a reprint of the original 1955 guidemap. Clever!
map-inside-1-M.jpg

map-inside-2-M.jpg


I said this in another thread, but I hope some Orlando suits were in Anaheim on Friday taking notes for the WDW 50th. WDW will likely get a new night parade and new 50th fireworks at Magic Kingdom, and also try and tie the DHS remake into the 50th via pained marketing. But on Friday October 1st, 2021, TDO needs to consider a touching and thoughtful format like the one TDA pulled together for Friday, July 17th, 2015.
I heard both Disneyland and WDW both used to have new daytime parades celebrating the parks anniversary. WDW hasn't done one since the 90's and Disneyland since 2005. Not a complaint, but I hope WDW will do something big for it's 50th but a little similar to the 100 Years Of Magic Celebration.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
...

I couldn't help but notice that, like many midwestern fanbois, @WDWFigment seems to have a livestock fetish. I just see him in that pic with his beloved Penny and ... yeah ... I want him to post here, so I won't say any of the baaaahhhhhd thoughts. Sorry, Tom! ... please let's have some TDR (as well as any DLR 60th) observations before I slip into the fog.
...

TDR Observations:

I'm just going to do these in quick hits form, if anyone wants to know more, I can elaborate:

-Tanabata Days is a short, little-known celebration for which TDR doesn't do a ton, but it's really cool to see so many guests come dressed in kimonos. Has a cool 'East Meets West' vibe; I have felt for a while that TDR is the most authentic slice of Japan (really) most tourists will get, but this little event is especially fascinating from an anthropological perspective.

-The summer shows in both parks are bat**** crazy with how much water they throw on the crowds, but they are a ton of nonsensical fun.

-Stitch Encounter is going to be a flop, I think. Saw it twice and although I didn't understand it, it's pretty easy to read the audience and people should NOT be sitting in total silence like that in an interactive show. Maybe I just got bad crowds, but I'm guessing this has a shelf life of 5 years, tops. (Then again, maybe that's the plan...)

-Not a big fan of the new Little Mermaid show. Then again, wasn't a fan of the old one. This one seems to take a tech-first approach that feels really awkward and disjointed.

-I'm going to miss StormRider. It's absurd, but it feels about right for Japan. Like Meet the World now, I'm betting this will grow a following over time, with young fans in 10 years wishing they experienced StormRider. Nemo in Port Discovery really bothers me, and I hope it doesn't result in any thematic changes to the port itself. Just stick it into the CWC as-is, change the marquee, and be done with it. Port Discovery is the weakest port, but turning it into Nemoland isn't the right fix.

-I'm not going to miss any of the parts of Tomorrowland that are biting the dust. That area becoming Fantasyland is a fantastic decision, and I hope the placemaking is as good there as it is in Critter Country to give the park more "character."

-Refreshed Dreamlights is spectacular. It was already my favorite nighttime parade by a wide margin, but the enhanced floats take it to the next level. The IASW finale unit is especially impressive, and I video (at least the one I saw) really doesn't do it justice.

-Sindbad's Storybook Voyage is the most under-appreciated attraction in the Disneyverse.

-Generally a bad time of year for weather with a lot of rain and humidity, but saw two of the most beautiful sunsets of my life there...while in Shinjuku and Minato.

-Crowds were generally light, so a good time to visit from that perspective.

-Still the best two Disney parks on the planet.

If you're curious about anything else, just ask.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
But you're looking at an average that is not at all close to individual park attendance patterns. Nor does current crowding exist in a state where existing capacity is fully utilized.
All 4 theme parks are more crowded than ever. Even with a $3.5B expansion, none of the other theme parks will come close to the Magic Kingdom's ride capacity.

Walkways, bus terminals, bathrooms, and restaurants at all 4 parks are all becoming painfully crowded.

Those of us who remember WDW in the 1970s and 1980s would consider today's typical crowds more like peak crowds. The parks truly are becoming disgustingly overcrowded. Adding popular IPs to existing parks are only going to make matters worse.

I'm not suggesting WDW needs a 5th theme park today. I am suggesting WDW will need a 5th theme park in 10 years.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
My chart shows per park attendance, or the average attendance per theme park.

Each time a WDW theme park opened in the past, there was a multi-million jump in total WDW attendance. However, per park attendance dipped because of the large expansion.

DAK's initial performance was disappointing but I blame that on perception; Disney spent years battling the zoo image, trying to convince the public that DAK was not a zoo. Disney won't make that mistake with a 5th WDW theme park

In the past, per theme park attendance has climbed to around 12-13 million before another park was added. This year's per theme park attendance will be above that, with no new theme park on the horizon. WDW is going to get increasingly crowded.

My projection assumes an average of 1% annual attendance growth to 2025. The reality is that there will be at least one recession between now and 2025 (probably 2), dampening attendance, while WDW typically can be expected to rebound 5% or more post recession. Add in the major investment to be made at WDW in popular IPs in the next 6 years, and 1% annual growth probably is on the conservative side.

The upcoming DHS redo is desperately needed and is the right next step. However, looking beyond that, WDW should warrant a 5th theme park some time in the middle of next decade.

Recessions? , Does that include the 2008 recession we never left?, Incomes and Labor force participation are still below pre-recession levels, The only part of the economy that's booming is Wall St and that's being driven by cheap money from the Fed. BLS estimates the current U6 unemployment rate to be 10.8%,

The U6 rate includes those who have run out of unemployment insurance in the surreal world of USG Accounting you are no longer 'unemployed' when your unemployment insurance runs out (but still do not have a Job...).

The 'USG Happy Talk' number is the U3 statistic,

For those who want sources -

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
The FL resident WDW offer I mentioned last night is for what they term 'late summer' (i.e. the slowest period of the year) from August 16th thru October 3rd.

Rates being offered include:

Pop Century $84 weekdays/$99 weekends;
CBR $129 weekdays/$145 weekends;
YC $269 weekdays/$299 weekends;
SS (I'm guessing this is for a studio) $245 every day of the week.

I think those weekday rates are actually quite good (probably 35-40% off value season rack rate).

But on this very page I have a banner ad from the Waldorf Astoria announcing a sale with rooms from $159 a night thru Dec. 23rd (select nights).
id take the Waldorf big time...

I've seen worse.
Id usually be curious.. but in this case and specially after seeing photos of Sailor Bubba.... NOPE NOPE NOPE.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
All 4 theme parks are more crowded than ever. Even with a $3.5B expansion, none of the other theme parks will come close to the Magic Kingdom's ride capacity.

Walkways, bus terminals, bathrooms, and restaurants at all 4 parks are all becoming painfully crowded.

Those of us who remember WDW in the 1970s and 1980s would consider today's typical crowds more like peak crowds. The parks truly are becoming disgustingly overcrowded. Adding popular IPs to existing parks are only going to make matters worse.

I'm not suggesting WDW needs a 5th theme park today. I am suggesting WDW will need a 5th theme park in 10 years.
That crowding is not necessarily due to fully utilized capacity, but instead to years of operational decisions intended to increase crowding as a means of managing labor costs. Even the Magic Kingdom is lacking in attraction capacity compared to the other Disneylands. The last two theme parks were built to trick people into staying longer, but most definitely not intended to handle significant crowds. Their attraction rosters were cut down to the bare minimum in an effort to eek out metrics of daily satisfaction. While culture definitely pays a role, operational efficiency helps to make the Tokyo Disney Resort (which comes in at an average of 15 million/park that is more reliable due to very limited park hopping) far easier to handle than any of the Walt Disney World parks.

Given the ridiculous ways Disney's costs have increased, a fifth gate would also have to be in the realm of $5 billion if it is not to be another exercise in duplicity. That is a serious amount of money, even for Disney, with a lot of that going to the required support infrastructure that Disney continues to neglect and understaff.

Despite all of this talk of crowds, the long-promised end to discounting has yet to arrive. If capacity is being pushed to the brink there should be no need for discounting.
 
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ItlngrlBella

Well-Known Member
I do believe you are in the plan in which we live. I'm probably somewhat late, but have been out of town.

Came home yesterday and I'm going through my Florida DT's. Determined that someday we will buy a vacation pool home and rent it out most of the year and be snowbirds there in our retirement - only 25ish years away!

We were in West Haven - here is the house: http://orlandoluxurysunshinevilla.com/

By far the best house we've rented to date.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
It has the unfortunate distinction of being released in the wake of Inside Out. Not an easy act to follow.

I know I'm in the minority, but the trailers just look like second- or third-tier Pixar to me. The character designs reminds me of Aardman claymation. The story that the trailer is telling looks awfully by-the-numbers. Hope there's more to the final cut.

I'm there with you. I'm completely uninspired by the trailers for The Good Dinosaur. It's tough to know what exactly the execution will be like, but the overview of the plot makes it seem like a generic "boy and his <blank>" concept.
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
That crowding is not necessarily due to fully utilized capacity, but instead to years of operational decisions intended to increase crowding as a means of managing labor costs. Even the Magic Kingdom is lacking in attraction capacity compared to the other Disneylands. The last two theme parks were built to trick people into staying longer, but most definitely not intended to handle significant crowds. Their attraction rosters were cut down to the bare minimum in an effort to eek out metrics of daily satisfaction. While culture definitely pays a role, operational efficiency helps to make the Tokyo Disney Resort (which comes in at an average of 15 million/park that is more reliable due to very limited park hopping) far easier to handle than any of the Walt Disney World parks.

Given the ridiculous ways Disney's costs have increased, a fifth gate would also have to be in the realm of $5 billion if it is not to be another exercise in duplicity. That is a serious amount of money, even for Disney, with a lot of that going to the required support infrastructure that Disney continues to neglect and understaff.

Despite all of this talk of crowds, the long-promised end to discounting has yet to arrive. If capacity is being pushed to the brink there should be no need for discounting.
I'd love to see the big discounts and the " free dining plan " come to an end. I believe people book trips planning on these discounts will roll around and they can upgrade their trip. It would be interesting if they try it for a quarter.
 

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