A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[Big C 73]

My presence on these forums is rather subtle, and nonetheless insubstantial in terms of posting. The current corporate leadership of the Walt Disney Company is incompetent in various classifications, and in my personal perception, most greatly in standardized business ethics. These ethics are maintained, but never truly comprehended by the contemporary leaders. It is a necessity, and a mere provision of precedent. The decisions which have been poor (not all decisions administered are poor), have seemingly formulated a metamorphic effect in conception. Thoroughness or specifications of such are rendered elsewhere, thus abolishing the necessity. I am simply posting, by a modest request, that a theoretical inquiry of mine be resolved. I direct this to @WDW1974, who is a highly regarded member here, which is a precedent to his reliability and solidity of provided information. The question is; where do you see Walt Disney World approximately ten to fifteen from the present? I hope your foresight on the company could satisfy these means of inquiry, and I am sure this has been prompted in some form before. Thank you for your time.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

I have had a few people (in very different places in Disney) tell me that NGE's costs are now past $3 billion with some people saying they are actually approaching $4 billion.

You just think about that.

All I know is that my MAGIC Band still requires me carrying an AP discount card to save a lousy dollar on my gelato. This is a tech boondoggle of the highest magnitude.

Oy, $3 billion? That's (roughly) the equivalent of:

- 30 Expedition: Everests
- 10 Diagon Alleys
- 3 Pandoras
- (probably) 1 comprehensive monorail expansion encompassing the entire resort
- the GDP of Colorado

I know I'd rather have 10 Diagon Alleys over a wearable piece of plastic.

No, the Next Gen Experience that was pushed hard by "the puckish gladhander" and "the oddly waifish man of anemic personality" and eagerly lapped up by a CEO with no desire to actually build anything new at Disney's parks is pushing all of the cuts that you see.

And, don't believe what you hear about this being a quarterly issue and come July all will be well again. That is BS spin that has been fed to some high-level bloggers/podcasters/Lifestylers. The cutbacks are likely to be the new normal.

Was afraid you might say that in one of your threads. Maybe stagnating park attendance and declining occupancy rates (along with what has to be dealing satisfaction levels via those surveys they love to send out) will make them change their mind about some of these cuts and price hikes.

Doesn't matter how Iger and others try to spin declining attendance - no company in their right mind touts LESS people choosing to pay for their product as a positive thing. Folks are going to notice if it becomes a yearlong trend.

Realistically speaking? You're in much more peril & danger simply traveling via automobile to WDW, the airport, the grocery store, the neighborhood brothel, etc., then ever experiencing anything like what was previously described.

Yes, it makes your hair crawl when you think about it......

Isn't that the truth.

I don't want to turn this thread into 15 pages of security ... what I will say is Disney needs intelligent security and that isn't readily apparent, despite some of the residents of Golden Oak (oops, did I say that again!?!) You absolutely don't need bag checks or anything like that ... you need trained eyes. For what Disney spent and continues to spend on NGE, they could have hired the Israelis to train and supervise a REAL security force. WDW is 43 square miles (just ask Imagineer Jason Grandt!) You can't cover a city by simply placing security at theme park main entrances.

Yep. Disney Springs, any of the resorts, the buses, monorails, MK ferries, parking trams...all are "outside" the park security checks.

 

[mharrington]

The Lord knows I hate Frozen, but as long as Roger stays, I wouldn't complain too much. I feel Mickey and Minnie's homes should stay, but wouldn't be surprised if those were bulldozed.

There can't be possible room for a bit of Toontown, Frozen, and other properties back there... I'm assuming Disney is thinking of taking up the space that the Fantasyland Theatre occupies?

Like I said, I hope they at least provide a new home for Mickey and Minnie. Note that I said "home", not "homes", because there probably isn't enough room for both. They'd have to combine them into one, I think. It could even be based on the notion that they are in fact married in reality, and only play a dating couple onscreen, as per Walt Disney's say-so.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

what I will say is Disney needs intelligent security and that isn't readily apparent, despite some of the residents of Golden Oak (oops, did I say that again!?!)

Hmm...
Could you elaborate please?

 

[mharrington]

Something to add on to that...

Like I said, I hope they at least provide a new home for Mickey and Minnie. Note that I said "home", not "homes", because there probably isn't enough room for both. They'd have to combine them into one, I think. It could even be based on the notion that they are in fact married in reality, and only play a dating couple onscreen, as per Walt Disney's say-so.

They also need a kiddie coaster in there somewhere, like Gadget's Go Coaster.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Can we briefly talk about what the heck is happening with HKDL these days, if anything?

Do we even know when Iron Man is opening? I did a search and all I can find is still nothing more specific than 2016.

 

[BrianLo]

There can't be possible room for a bit of Toontown, Frozen, and other properties back there... I'm assuming Disney is thinking of taking up the space that the Fantasyland Theatre occupies?

Operationally yes the Fantasyland Theater will and needs to go. It will provide an additional access point to the land and also a further bypass for Star Wars.

Then there is that expansion plot beside Star Wars (which I thought was for Star Wars but maybe not). Quite a bit of room especially if there are any additional backstage facilities they can knock down behind Toon Town.

There is a big drive to get the Outter ring finalized. If people can traverse the park from Critter Country to Small World without having to pass through NoS, Frontier land and Fantasyland A LOT of the operational crowd flow woes of the parades and night spectaculars will finally ease off.

 

[WDW1974]

Just reading some of the coverage on Disney's earnings ... 6.9% down is pretty telling.

Also pretty telling: WDW (and UNI as well to a lesser extent) was simply not crowded at all for the first week of May. Now, May once was a slow month, one of the slowest of the year as a matter of fact, but it felt worse this year.

And it also felt yet again like a depressing place, a place on the verge of closing. I don't know how people aren't getting that, except I guess they never visited in 1973 or 1987 or 1995 or even 2000. Depressed, slovenly, overworked CMs. Guests overwhelmed by prices (yes, dinner really starts at 11 a.m. at the Crystal Palace ... yes, the Diamond Horseshoe is open again just with no show and a $33 a person family style dining experience ... yes, that a la carte lunch steak that is no higher quality than what you can get at Outback Steakhouse really is $51).

 

[BrianLo]

Do we even know when Iron Man is opening? I did a search and all I can find is still nothing more specific than 2016.

Late 2016 I believe. Perhaps as late as December.

Not sure what happened exactly, they had the best momentum going as a resort and have seemingly stalled out. TSMM should have been under construction at this point.

 

[J. D.]

Something to add on to that...



They also need a kiddie coaster in there somewhere, like Gadget's Go Coaster.

How many times are you going to say the same thing?

 

[tissandtully]

Just reading some of the coverage on Disney's earnings ... 6.9% down is pretty telling.

Also pretty telling: WDW (and UNI as well to a lesser extent) was simply not crowded at all for the first week of May. Now, May once was a slow month, one of the slowest of the year as a matter of fact, but it felt worse this year.

And it also felt yet again like a depressing place, a place on the verge of closing. I don't know how people aren't getting that, except I guess they never visited in 1973 or 1987 or 1995 or even 2000. Depressed, slovenly, overworked CMs. Guests overwhelmed by prices (yes, dinner really starts at 11 a.m. at the Crystal Palace ... yes, the Diamond Horseshoe is open again just with no show and a $33 a person family style dining experience ... yes, that a la carte lunch steak that is no higher quality than what you can get at Outback Steakhouse really is $51).

Was surprised when I was able to walk into Trader Sams with no wait at 9pm on a Friday night a couple weeks ago.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Was surprised when I was able to walk into Trader Sams with no wait at 9pm on a Friday night a couple weeks ago.

That place has gone downhill since they lost their opening cast.

Plus Frank wrote a letter. Damn you Frank.

 

[Spark70]

Just reading some of the coverage on Disney's earnings ... 6.9% down is pretty telling.

Also pretty telling: WDW (and UNI as well to a lesser extent) was simply not crowded at all for the first week of May. Now, May once was a slow month, one of the slowest of the year as a matter of fact, but it felt worse this year.

And it also felt yet again like a depressing place, a place on the verge of closing. I don't know how people aren't getting that, except I guess they never visited in 1973 or 1987 or 1995 or even 2000. Depressed, slovenly, overworked CMs. Guests overwhelmed by prices (yes, dinner really starts at 11 a.m. at the Crystal Palace ... yes, the Diamond Horseshoe is open again just with no show and a $33 a person family style dining experience ... yes, that a la carte lunch steak that is no higher quality than what you can get at Outback Steakhouse really is $51).

Interesting to see consumer products was down 8% - I wonder what happened to the guy who was in charge of that division...

 

[Mike S]

Sorry for the wall of text guys.

I have returned from a recent visit to O-Town where I hit up all four WDW parks and both UNI parks and, naturally, I have things to say ... and a bit of news as well.

I hesitated starting this one because well ... we've been down this road before. And some people will come here looking for news on an amazing new Marvel coaster for EPCOT that hasn't been announced yet and be disappointed (don't be, my friends and online stalkers, as there is one coming ... to Shanghai! Guess no one has announced that yet. Maybe it will be borrowed to go along with my GotG Tower tale.) to find me talking about why I don't really care how well Disney is doing at the box office or why US fanbois who are too afraid to visit China really should tone down the drool over SDL (yeah, they got Pirates right ... but nothing else in that park comes close to it).

I also don't get hot and bothered by refurbed/rebranded malls and their infrastructure.

And do you really want to know why security was beefed up? Why are you going through those scanners and security theater (to be fair, this week it is all real ... that's what the Invictus Games, Mrs. Obama and Prince UKer -- I think that's @marni1971 -- will do)? You don't expect a Lifestyler to talk about direct threats on the MK do you? You think you'll get free cupcake party invites by talking about bad people wanting to do bad things at WDW? Nope.

Well, I won't either, I'll just let you connect the dots. I'll just tell you that people are VERY concerned and that I have never seen so much security and that includes during Ronald Reagan's second inaugural, 12/31/99 and post 9/11. There is unheard of security at WDW, made much easier by some of those 'residents' of Golden Oak.

So, why don't we start by talking about those Wall Street results. No, not directly. @PhotoDave219 has that covered in the quarterly earnings thread ... but why don't we talk about what WDW is like right now? Got a drink handy? An adult one? A non-Disney adult one (you know because a tablespoon of alcohol for $12 just doesn't cut it with people not addicted to Pixie Dust and the BRAND).

Let's chat some.

Wait, this past weekend? And you couldn't say hi to me?

Also I thought those helicopters circling DHS on Friday looked suspicious. I guess now I know why

First, all of the #thanksshanghai stuff has been fun, but all of the cuts that you see at WDW, all of the desperation (take a look at portion sizes of food across property and then tell me with a straight face that Disney isn't acting like a company going under) upcharge moves (not one $149 night has sold 500 tickets yet ... or 400 tickets yet ... or ...), all of the screwing of Guests and Cast on a daily basis isn't simply related to the bloodsucking Bob Iger ego-trip in China.

Nope. If SDL is 50% of the problem (and it is), then NGE/MM+ is the other 50%. Don't bring in ESPN ... or DLP ... or ABC or HKDL ... because they are no factors whatsoever.

No, the Next Gen Experience that was pushed hard by "the puckish gladhander" and "the oddly waifish man of anemic personality" and eagerly lapped up by a CEO with no desire to actually build anything new at Disney's parks is pushing all of the cuts that you see.

And, don't believe what you hear about this being a quarterly issue and come July all will be well again. That is BS spin that has been fed to some high-level bloggers/podcasters/Lifestylers. The cutbacks are likely to be the new normal.

So when Fantasmic has only one showing a night and when restaurants close hours before a park and when food prices go up yet again, well, understand that SDL opening and being a huge success (if it is) won't change that any more than Captain America Infinity Thors Vader Rogue Wars huge BO will.

Look for WDW (and DLR to a somewhat lesser degree due to everything already cut for The Star Wars Experience) to be running at this new normal right on into 2017 and, possibly, beyond.

I experienced the smaller portions first hand when we went to Pop for breakfast because the breakfast at our offsite hotel stunk. Less eggs and one slice of French toast rather than two. The Disney Difference indeed.

I have had a few people (in very different places in Disney) tell me that NGE's costs are now past $3 billion with some people saying they are actually approaching $4 billion.

You just think about that.

All I know is that my MAGIC Band still requires me carrying an AP discount card to save a lousy dollar on my gelato. This is a tech boondoggle of the highest magnitude.

Seeing mine and my brothers names on it's a small world and a Hitchhiking Ghost saying he's following me to Florida was so totally worth it

Oh, and since I alluded to it earlier, Shanghai's Phase II is moving ahead at lightning speed because, again, despite what fanbois on the Tweeter say, SDL's menu simply doesn't provide enough attractions, enough capacity.

Right now, it appears the Captain America coaster hybrid for DCA will be reskinned to another Marvel character (most likely Iron Man or Spidey -- just opinion here) and along with an Everest clone and an Alice in Wonderland trackless ride should be the three big attractions added with another spinner or the like added to round out the expansion. Plans are in flux, but the above is pretty damn solid or I wouldn't put it out now.

Can't wait to see Everest with a working Yeti again in freaking CHINA.

Why worry? Yes, it is scary to even think about, but this is the reality of our world. Still, don't let it damper your vacation! Enjoy yourself, giving into fear is exactly what they want!! You're more likely to die on your journey down there than actually be the victim of a terror attack inside the MK.

No point living in fear of death when being alive is the #1 cause of it. Just accept it and enjoy the ride. This one won't end at the gift shop though.

I don't want to turn this thread into 15 pages of security ... what I will say is Disney needs intelligent security and that isn't readily apparent, despite some of the residents of Golden Oak (oops, did I say that again!?!) You absolutely don't need bag checks or anything like that ... you need trained eyes. For what Disney spent and continues to spend on NGE, they could have hired the Israelis to train and supervise a REAL security force. WDW is 43 square miles (just ask Imagineer Jason Grandt!) You can't cover a city by simply placing security at theme park main entrances.

Perhaps my dad could help.

Live action. Just like the existing maze.

And while we are on the subject of major kewl developments coming to other resorts, Toontown at DL will indeed be getting taken over by Frozen and other properties. Not sure the entire land will go, but what stays isn't likely to look the same ...

It's B&tB isn't it. If Disney's going to play favorites with their castle parks they should at least try not to make it so obvious.

I continue to be amazed at how easy it is to get into backstage areas all across property, resorts especially.

One time we got to the backstage entrance for Epcot completely by accident. No big security that I recall.

Just reading some of the coverage on Disney's earnings ... 6.9% down is pretty telling.

Also pretty telling: WDW (and UNI as well to a lesser extent) was simply not crowded at all for the first week of May. Now, May once was a slow month, one of the slowest of the year as a matter of fact, but it felt worse this year.

And it also felt yet again like a depressing place, a place on the verge of closing. I don't know how people aren't getting that, except I guess they never visited in 1973 or 1987 or 1995 or even 2000. Depressed, slovenly, overworked CMs. Guests overwhelmed by prices (yes, dinner really starts at 11 a.m. at the Crystal Palace ... yes, the Diamond Horseshoe is open again just with no show and a $33 a person family style dining experience ... yes, that a la carte lunch steak that is no higher quality than what you can get at Outback Steakhouse really is $51).

I was just there and had a pretty nice time except for that breakfast I mentioned earlier. Of course the same problems I've been noticing for years still exist and the place is pretty much moving along on the greatness built by others who were much smarter than the current flock but hey what do I know?

Universal was also nice. So much construction going on around the resort from in park attractions to Volcano Bay and King Kong looks fantastic now that the outside is pretty much complete. Can't wait for that one!!!

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Late 2016 I believe. Perhaps as late as December.

Not sure what happened exactly, they had the best momentum going as a resort and have seemingly stalled out. TSMM should have been under construction at this point.

Since you guys brought up Iron Man, here are the latest satellite images from Google.
Iron Man Experience

Disney Explorer's Lodge

 

[ProfSavage]

So what you're saying is #EverythingIsAwful?

 

[No Name]

Hmmm. Sounds like someone's trying to dig themselves out of a hole. A Shanghai hole. Because it looks like more than 50% of the exterior paint will be ready on opening day. It looks like the park is a very quality one. Your comment about nothing else coming close to Pirates sounds like a classic cover-up/backtrack. The other rides may not come close to Pirates, but they're good, Pirates is just amazing. And with 14 rides, 3 shows, a parade, a stage show, a nighttime spectacular, multiple walk-through attractions, heck, a climbing course kind of thing, and more, I'd say the park is pretty damn good.

From the loads of videos and pictures we've seen, the park could open for real today, and there is still a month left before that June 16th official opening date. But I thought they were oh soooo far behind schedule... hmmm.

Is that part of Chappie's big lie? The lie that was supposed to (and did) cover up for his cuts. SDL's situation is clearly not as you painted it to be, so something must be up. I think your source, or you, or both, are being completely duped by the man himself.

First, all of the #thanksshanghai stuff has been fun, but all of the cuts that you see at WDW, all of the desperation (take a look at portion sizes of food across property and then tell me with a straight face that Disney isn't acting like a company going under) upcharge moves (not one $149 night has sold 500 tickets yet ... or 400 tickets yet ... or ...), all of the screwing of Guests and Cast on a daily basis isn't simply related to the bloodsucking Bob Iger ego-trip in China.

Nope. If SDL is 50% of the problem (and it is), then NGE/MM+ is the other 50%. Don't bring in ESPN ... or DLP ... or ABC or HKDL ... because they are no factors whatsoever.

No, the Next Gen Experience that was pushed hard by "the puckish gladhander" and "the oddly waifish man of anemic personality" and eagerly lapped up by a CEO with no desire to actually build anything new at Disney's parks is pushing all of the cuts that you see.

Oh! So now SDL has been basically revealed, looks fabulous, and suddenly the reason for the cuts has changed? Coincidence? Before, you insisted that it was Shanghai. Now it is NGE. Why the change? Once again, something must be up. Maybe Chappie realizes that his SDL story aint gonna work anymore. Or maybe this is you digging out of that hole.

And why NGE? LOL. The bulk of that spending happened a year or two or more ago. I don't have their checkbook with me, but I can't see any MyMagic+ stuff suddenly causing a big dent in the budget now.

Either way, lets look at this with our own minds. Why don't we all stop blaming the cuts on other events, and put the blame where it really lies, in Chappie's hands. Chappie is the one making these cuts. He doesn't have to be, but he is. And it really doesn't matter why.

Oh, and since I alluded to it earlier, Shanghai's Phase II is moving ahead at lightning speed because, again, despite what fanbois on the Tweeter say, SDL's menu simply doesn't provide enough attractions, enough capacity.

Right now, it appears the Captain America coaster hybrid for DCA will be reskinned to another Marvel character (most likely Iron Man or Spidey -- just opinion here) and along with an Everest clone and an Alice in Wonderland trackless ride should be the three big attractions added with another spinner or the like added to round out the expansion. Plans are in flux, but the above is pretty damn solid or I wouldn't put it out now.

Exciting news!

Well, exciting rumor, I should say. I've never had more trouble believing you. Lots of things just don't add up. You were pretty wrong on the condition of Shanghai. And you're now changing course on the reason for the cuts. I just hope you're not wrong on this part.

I don't mean to pick a fight. I love reading your posts for what they are. But I just had to point all this out. Sorry for digging your hole even deeper.

 

[ThemeParkJunkee]

While I wish I had insider credentials, I don't. I have my own pocketbook. I have lost my Disney Magic in a big way. I have sold both my vacation homes in the carribean because after 26 visits, I'm sick of that too, in addition to my position in DIS. I need to find a new vacation venue. DVC didn't make the cut. With the world the way it is, I am at a loss. As a theme park fan, I'm now worried about Tokyo (a plan for 2017) I also think Orlando in 2018 will involve Pandora and US/IOA and Seaworld. At least the hubby likes roller coasters

I will never go to Shanghai, which I am sure their government prefers. National parks two years in a row is not helping my theme park fixation. I think Tokyo is an option so far. Sigh....I am losing the vacation battle due to the decisions of DIS the corporation.

ETA: My concerns about Tokyo are security related and also personal. It just may not work out.

 

[HMF]

No, the Next Gen Experience that was pushed hard by "the puckish gladhander" and "the oddly waifish man of anemic personality" and eagerly lapped up by a CEO with no desire to actually build anything new at Disney's parks is pushing all of the cuts that you see.
.

If only someone could see that coming back in 2012/2013, Oh wait.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Like I said, I hope they at least provide a new home for Mickey and Minnie. Note that I said "home", not "homes", because there probably isn't enough room for both. They'd have to combine them into one, I think. It could even be based on the notion that they are in fact married in reality, and only play a dating couple onscreen, as per Walt Disney's say-so.

Don't hold your breath.