A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[hopemax]

I have had a few people (in very different places in Disney) tell me that NGE's costs are now past $3 billion with some people saying they are actually approaching $4 billion.

You just think about that.

All I know is that my MAGIC Band still requires me carrying an AP discount card to save a lousy dollar on my gelato. This is a tech boondoggle of the highest magnitude.

I can't even. About everything posted, but especially this.

I thought I had thoroughly convinced myself of how ugly the end would be, but this management team continues to astound me with the ways they are going to kill the golden goose. When it breaks, the amount of meaningful investment that will be required to repair the damage...I don't see how a third party would even want to touch Disney theme parks. Maybe, Disneyland based on historical importance and being a much smaller property. Which means WDW will sputter around like Six Flags becoming increasingly irrelevant.

It won't happen tomorrow, but the amount of families willing to drop $5K into a vacation experience that has them standing in inefficient lines, and opening their wallet at every turn is a finite resource. Especially, as families continue to get squeezed from three sides (their children's education/child care, their own retirement, as well as their parents.)

But my question is, with some attendance slowdown showing up in this quarter's results, how will we know how bad things are? As PhotoDave pointed out, and I've suspected for quite awhile, line length /= crowd level. So it's not like the parks are going to feel less crowded. How many quarters will "modest decline" = "serious problem" even if there is a positive quarter here and there.

In other news, I recently returned from a fabulous 12 days in Hawaii, well, up until the head/chest cold kicked in. Hawaii has a reputation of being expensive. And it is, but I know I ate far better food at the same price as at WDW, and I know I came home with quality souvenirs at the same or cheaper price as WDW. So next up, well, actually visiting my Dad which means, WDW for the 45th, whether they celebrate it or not, but after that London and then hopefully Japan in 2017. And my husband shared this link with me http://www.travelchannel.com/intere...e-overwater-bungalows-you-can-actually-afford

 

[Lee]

My presence on these forums is rather subtle, and nonetheless insubstantial in terms of posting. The current corporate leadership of the Walt Disney Company is incompetent in various classifications, and in my personal perception, most greatly in standardized business ethics. These ethics are maintained, but never truly comprehended by the contemporary leaders. It is a necessity, and a mere provision of precedent. The decisions which have been poor (not all decisions administered are poor), have seemingly formulated a metamorphic effect in conception. Thoroughness or specifications of such are rendered elsewhere, thus abolishing the necessity. I am simply posting, by a modest request, that a theoretical inquiry of mine be resolved. I direct this to @WDW1974, who is a highly regarded member here, which is a precedent to his reliability and solidity of provided information. The question is; where do you see Walt Disney World approximately ten to fifteen from the present? I hope your foresight on the company could satisfy these means of inquiry, and I am sure this has been prompted in some form before. Thank you for your time.

Wait....what?

 

[BrianLo]

While I wish I had insider credentials, I don't. I have my own pocketbook. I have lost my Disney Magic in a big way. I have sold both my vacation homes in the carribean because after 26 visits, I'm sick of that too, in addition to my position in DIS. I need to find a new vacation venue. DVC didn't make the cut. With the world the way it is, I am at a loss. As a theme park fan, I'm now worried about Tokyo (a plan for 2017) I also think Orlando in 201 will involve Pandora and US/IOA and Seaworld. At least the hubby likes roller coasters

I will never go to Shanghai, which I am sure their government prefers. National parks two years in a row is not helping my theme park fixation. I think Tokyo is an option so far. Sigh....I am losing the vacation battle due to the decisions of DIS the corporation.

Sorry - why are you worried about Tokyo?

 

[WDW1974]

I hope they at least have a home (preferably a real house) for Mickey and Minnie to be in. And also a kiddie coaster like Gadget's Go Coaster before it.

And if they get rid of Toontown at Disneyland, they should get rid of it in Tokyo, too. Maybe they could relocate Small World over to that spot like the original plans, and then fill in the newly-opened up space with Alice stuff (given its proximity to the Queen of Hearts restaurant), also as per the original plans.

Gadget's is on the very land that Frozen will occupy, so it's history.

As to Toontown in TDL, why would they get rid of it? It is popular still and it is functional and well-maintained.

And just a comment on TDL's expansion plans, but they have not all been finalized nor released. People are reading into them many things, some true, some not at all true.

 

[WDW1974]

I feel more at risk driving down I-4 than I ever do when I walk through the parks.

The drivers are more insane all the time. A new FL habit is if you are in the wrong lane and the light is green, you just sit there, even if traffic is coming up on you at 50 MPH. It is effing crazy. And I saw it on at least half a dozen occurrences, a few where I had to narrowly miss the moron and beep the horn and gesture ...

 

[Absimilliard]

Gadget's is on the very land that Frozen will occupy, so it's history.

As to Toontown in TDL, why would they get rid of it? It is popular still and it is functional and well-maintained.

And just a comment on TDL's expansion plans, but they have not all been finalized nor released. People are reading into them many things, some true, some not at all true.

I would figure that after over 24 years of good and loyal service, Gadget is reaching the end of its service life. Placing Frozen would move that plot of land from a 480 pph attraction to a 2000+ pph Frozen ride if they use the trackless ride system. Not a bad trade!

The one Vekoma Roller Skater I see surviving is the Nuthouse Coaster at USF. Over on another forum, I was laughed at for daring to suggest they would retheme it and add a second train to it for Nintendo, but why not? They already showed they don't mind placing family coasters in Hogswart at both USJ and USH, so why not add the transfer track and second train for Nuthouse Coaster and spend some of that budget elsewhere?

 

[hopemax]

The drivers are more insane all the time. A new FL habit is if you are in the wrong lane and the light is green, you just sit there, even if traffic is coming up on you at 50 MPH. It is effing crazy. And I saw it on at least half a dozen occurrences, a few where I had to narrowly miss the moron and beep the horn and gesture ...

Our scariest moment was when the driver in front of us realized that he was about to miss the exit for the Turkey Lake service plaza, came to a dead stop in the middle lane on the Turnpike and then made a left turn to get to the exit. This was heading south and there is a small incline and then decline before the exit. We slowed down in time but we were more worried that the car behind us wouldn't see us in enough time to stop. And my Dad flat out refuses to drive both I-4 and I-95.

 

[WDW1974]

Ya that is more likely, but @WDW1974 seemed pretty sure it is still on the table. Even though I can't understand how. If it's converted to the live action side I guess putting it beside the queen of hearts restaraunt is no longer as vital.

Frozen will still come though - I'd bet my life on that. They'd be throwing away so much money in Japan especially by not moving forward with that.

I believe it is, to answer the first part.

The second part definitely is.

All that has happened is some changes have been made and certain projects dropped for others and certain projects moved ahead in the plans for the next decade.

This isn't WDW where they literally should be embarrassed that they aren't offering EPCOT and Studios for half off right now. I honestly am at a loss for what people see there and do there ... eat, drink, shop and feed addictions is all I can guess because there simply isn't a damn thing worth seeing at current price points right now (unlike MK and DAK).

BTW, to say Disney advertising is disingenuous regarding the entire Star Wars IP at DHS is putting it mildly. Bait and switch comes to mind yet one would think DHS is THE STAR WARS PARK in much the way people looked at IOA as the Harry Potter park.

 

[WDW1974]

Oh and one more question - I know exceeding my limit.

Can we briefly talk about what the heck is happening with HKDL these days, if anything?

Unfortunately, not much right now. Believe me, I wish I had some good news, but things there are frozen right now. Shanghai is all that matters to the CCP. That has been made very clear to Bob. I think the place will stagnate largely (although Iron Man is opening soon and the new hotel and new seasonal entertainment) for the next 3-4 years before a focus is placed on it again. I do wonder if the SAR regrets pulling the plug on TSMM now.

 

[WDW1974]

So, this seems to be a good place to bring it up since it will be an active topic. @WDW1974 or anyone else, could you comment if you've heard anything along these lines about possible future developments at DHS and DAK:

There is a third phase of construction 'planned' for what is now known as DHS. Whether it happens is another matter.

As far as I know, there is nothing on the horizon for DAK for a while after Pandora just to see how that fills out the experience. The only thing I have heard about is another full serve dining location is possible depending on the performance of Tiffins.

 

[BrianLo]

I do wonder if the SAR regrets pulling the plug on TSMM now.

Likely, although I would assume that's something that could be put back into the pipeline exceedingly quickly if things are truly going to stall out for the next 3-4 years.

It wouldn't be ideal but TSMM has proven outrageously popular and would help stabilize attendance.

Hopefully someone realizes they need to keep up momentum.

 

[WDW1974]

The Lord knows I hate Frozen, but as long as Roger stays, I wouldn't complain too much. I feel Mickey and Minnie's homes should stay, but wouldn't be surprised if those were bulldozed.

There can't be possible room for a bit of Toontown, Frozen, and other properties back there... I'm assuming Disney is thinking of taking up the space that the Fantasyland Theatre occupies?

Yup. That theater is a goner.

 

[marni1971]

I have had a few people (in very different places in Disney) tell me that NGE's costs are now past $3 billion with some people saying they are actually approaching $4 billion..

Just incase you missed it.

 

[Nland316]

Toontown at DL will indeed be getting taken over by Frozen and other properties. Not sure the entire land will go, but what stays isn't likely to look the same ...

Intriguing. I'm sure there will be a lot shared between Tokyo and DL's expansions. Frozen without a doubt, Beauty and the Beast (hopefully), and a new Fantasyland theater would be nice...

 

[WDW1974]

My presence on these forums is rather subtle, and nonetheless insubstantial in terms of posting. The current corporate leadership of the Walt Disney Company is incompetent in various classifications, and in my personal perception, most greatly in standardized business ethics. These ethics are maintained, but never truly comprehended by the contemporary leaders. It is a necessity, and a mere provision of precedent. The decisions which have been poor (not all decisions administered are poor), have seemingly formulated a metamorphic effect in conception. Thoroughness or specifications of such are rendered elsewhere, thus abolishing the necessity. I am simply posting, by a modest request, that a theoretical inquiry of mine be resolved. I direct this to @WDW1974, who is a highly regarded member here, which is a precedent to his reliability and solidity of provided information. The question is; where do you see Walt Disney World approximately ten to fifteen from the present? I hope your foresight on the company could satisfy these means of inquiry, and I am sure this has been prompted in some form before. Thank you for your time.

That is a GREAT question and I'd like to ponder it some. Too late for a detailed answer anyway. I don't like the direction and I worry greatly would be the quick answer. WDW is everything Walt didn't want today. Crowded, urban, bumping up against development on all sides. To see how many trees had been butchered just since last fall was eye-opening. The roads are a mess ... yes, to improve them ... but to what end? More cars and more buses on the road while the monorails literally rot on the beams? Disney selling land wherever it can. A giant timeshare resort where theme parks are ancillary operations. Theme parks that are poorly maintained and not the best in the city let alone the company or the world. Stratifying Guests by what they can afford (in a very different way than what happened in WDW's first 30 years) I worry ... I really do. WDW is a total doodie show right now. And the people running it are fully aware. If Chappie had walked by while I was eating my $11.99 nachos, I would have thrown them at him. That answered more than I expected ... but please ask me again if I forget ... it is a topic well worth focusing on.

 

[WDW1974]

Hmm...
Could you elaborate please?

I could. But I'm sorry I won't ... people need to figure things out for themselves sometime.

 

[WDW1974]

Was surprised when I was able to walk into Trader Sams with no wait at 9pm on a Friday night a couple weeks ago.

I guess I should try that. I went (again!) on a rainy Wednesday in May around 4:40 and waited 30 minutes with a pager to get in.
Place is very overrated. Someone tell that to my pal, the EPCOT Explorer, please. At least I consumed an entire Nautilus while there, which made my 3 1/2 hour evening at the MK truly MAGICal.

BTW, for those who talk about not being able to do enough and spending 14 hours at MK, I did 12 attractions, saw Wishes, shopped and chatted with a CM pal and left at 10:30 with the park open until 11, plus another two hours for resort Guests, which I was not (Cabana Bay at UNI for $50 a night was just too sweet to pass up when it is a great deal at three times that!) I do wonder why people waste so much time at MK and complain about lines and not seeing anything. I just chalk it up to ignorance.

 

[mharrington]

Gadget's is on the very land that Frozen will occupy, so it's history.

I just meant reuse the track for a different theme.

As to Toontown in TDL, why would they get rid of it? It is popular still and it is functional and well-maintained.

Isn't Toontown in Disneyland still popular, too, though? It may not be nearly as maintained, but isn't it still popular?

 

[asianway]

I could. But I'm sorry I won't ... people need to figure things out for themselves sometime.

Did you see the story spreading around social media a couple weeks ago about a small "explosive" going off in the MK?

 

[GhostHost1000]

They've been stationed by the bus entrance to MK for months now, always two cars, one marked one not.

I have seen that the past few years honestly so not sure that is something new