A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[ParentsOf4]

What!? People are discussing financials and not inviting me to the party!

Don't be too thrilled about the 5.7% increase in domestic P&R revenue in 2Q2016 or the 4.8% increase in 3Q2016. These are the smallest increases since a little thing you youngins' call the "Great Recession". (Some of us old enough to remember it thought the 1970s were much worse economically. )

Publically, Disney has suggested that they are more focused on Per Capita Guest Spending (PCGS). Essentially, they've said they want fewer Guests paying more. Here's changes to PCGS since 2013:

Really though, you need to keep an eye on operating margin. Ultimately, that's what Disney wants to improve:

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I disagree here. Aladdin is the best Disney stage show I've ever seen. It's removal hurt more than Horizons, Imagination, Toad, Alien Encounter, DCA's Tower, you name it. They tried to remove it for Toy Story years ago before Cars Land and the backlash saved it. They just needed to get Frozen in the park and that was the venue to do it. It was a mistake.

I can't tell if you're joking or not. I'm glad you enjoyed Aladdin so much, but it was a stage show that had run for 13 years and was ready for replacement. TDA had been looking to replace the show for years, but stopped the Toy Story project because it was godawful, not because of fan backlash. In fact, the backlash in 2011 was markedly less than what happened when the actual closure was announced. Frozen was the perfect opportunity to get a big budget replacement approved, so it won.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone else who would put its removal on par with the loss of Horizons or Journey Into Imagination.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Aladdin really wasn't that great. I wasn't against it leaving, but I sure as hell didn't want to see Frozen replace it.

 

[TP2000]

Fans need to be more picky about what they protest and whine about. The Aladdin backlash was so disproportionate that I'm sure any remaining fan credibility was lost in most newer TDA execs' eyes.

Agreed. If they had kept their powder dry and stayed quiet on closing the 13 year old Aladdin show, their protests over Tower of Terror might have gotten traction.

But now, thanks to the ridiculousness and the change.org petitions over a 13 year old theme park stage show that overstayed its welcome by 8 years, the "fan community" probably looks really silly and clueless to TDA execs.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I can't tell if you're joking or not. I'm glad you enjoyed Aladdin so much, but it was a stage show that had run for 13 years and was ready for replacement. TDA had been looking to replace the show for years, but stopped the Toy Story project because it was godawful, not because of fan backlash. In fact, the backlash in 2011 was markedly less than what happened when the actual closure was announced. Frozen was the perfect opportunity to get a big budget replacement approved, so it won.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone else who would put its removal on par with the loss of Horizons or Journey Into Imagination.

At the time Horizons, Imagination, etc were removed the demand for those attractions wasn't there. We didn't know what would replace them and we assumed it would be better. Mission: SPACE especially wasn't a cheap replacement (Imagination obviously was). Expectations were for improvements.

The Aladdin show left DCA as the best theme park stage show in the country and the Frozen show that replaced is not as good. The ability to have a character "improvise" in a theme park made the show incredibly unique. They found a way to incorporate a similar function in the Frozen Sing a Long at DHS making that show tolerable, especially for one put together in 2 weeks.

My beef with the DCA version of Frozen is that it's more of the same. Disney does these shows very well, but there really isn't much unique about this one. Yes it has solid effects, performances, music, etc but it's not something that I have to see every time I visit. 90% of the time I go to DAK I see Festival of the Lion King. The same was true for Aladdin at DCA. Shows like Frozen, Finding Nemo, Beauty and the Beast, etc are once every other trip at most.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Aladdin really wasn't that great. I wasn't against it leaving, but I sure as hell didn't want to see Frozen replace it.

Agreed. If they had kept their powder dry and stayed quiet on closing the 13 year old Aladdin show, their protests over Tower of Terror might have gotten traction.

But now, thanks to the ridiculousness and the change.org petitions over a 13 year old theme park stage show that overstayed its welcome by 8 years, the "fan community" probably looks really silly and clueless to TDA execs.

Not to go all Kippel on you both, but you're wrong. My opinion is right and no one else's matters.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Aladdin is way overrated. Take out the improvising gimmick and you have a very average stage show. Frozen has it's issues but is a much higher quality production.

 

[ford91exploder]

At the time Horizons, Imagination, etc were removed the demand for those attractions wasn't there. We didn't know what would replace them and we assumed it would be better. Mission: SPACE especially wasn't a cheap replacement (Imagination obviously was). Expectations were for improvements.

The Aladdin show left DCA as the best theme park stage show in the country and the Frozen show that replaced is not as good. The ability to have a character "improvise" in a theme park made the show incredibly unique. They found a way to incorporate a similar function in the Frozen Sing a Long at DHS making that show tolerable, especially for one put together in 2 weeks.

My beef with the DCA version of Frozen is that it's more of the same. Disney does these shows very well, but there really isn't much unique about this one. Yes it has solid effects, performances, music, etc but it's not something that I have to see every time I visit. 90% of the time I go to DAK I see Festival of the Lion King. The same was true for Aladdin at DCA. Shows like Frozen, Finding Nemo, Beauty and the Beast, etc are once every other trip at most.

I think you conflate lack of a line with lack of demand Horizons and Imagination 1.0 were Omnimovers done RIGHT with ride capacities undreamed of today. Think pre FP+ PoTC and HM did those ever have a line... with the exceptions of Holiday peaks and NYE.

 

[ford91exploder]

What!? People are discussing financials and not inviting me to the party!

Don't be too thrilled about the 5.7% increase in domestic P&R revenue in 2Q2016 or the 4.8% increase in 3Q2016. These are the smallest increases since a little thing you youngins' call the "Great Recession". (Some of us old enough to remember it thought the 1970s were much worse economically. )

Publically, Disney has suggested that they are more focused on Per Capita Guest Spending (PCGS). Essentially, they've said they want fewer Guests paying more. Here's changes to PCGS since 2013:

View attachment 158446

Really though, you need to keep an eye on operating margin. Ultimately, that's what Disney really wants to improve:

View attachment 158448

Interesting to see as Matt Ouimet is investing in his parks 'Cedar Fair' their operating margin is going up, Guess the 'old' formula of building quality themed attractions works for everyone EXCEPT Disney these days

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I think you conflate lack of a line with lack of demand Horizons and Imagination 1.0 were Omnimovers done RIGHT with ride capacities undreamed of today. Think pre FP+ PoTC and HM did those ever have a line... with the exceptions of Holiday peaks and NYE.

Well, wrong again. If people were still flocking to Horizons or the original Sea Base Alpha, Disney would never have changed them. Doesn't matter the capacity, Disney knows exactly how many people were riding. When attendance goes down at an attraction, they look to see what else can bump up the attendance.

Oh, and yes, there were hour long waits in the 90's for POTC and 30-45 minute waits at HM, even during normal summer months, long before any FP system.

 

[Mike S]

Changes to Universal's APs from OU user NJBrandon. A new lower pass and additional perks to the older passes as well as an increased price. Someone who renewed today said that the renewal price has not increased. I thought this would be a good topic since this thread has been a little slow and ticket pricing is always a hot topic around here. I like that I now have EPA which used to only be for hotel guests even if it's not all year. Adds even more value to my AP.

Changes are out and the new pricing is out(FL Res/Non-FL Res):

Seasonal - 259.99/284.99
Power - 319.99/344.99
Preferred - 349.99/384.99
Premier - 489.99/539.99

In summary:

Seasonal blocks out Christmas, Spring Break, and Summer. NO concert admission(Mardi Gras).

Power blocks out Christmas and Spring Break. 50% discount on parking.

Preferred has no blockout dates. Free parking and merchandise/food discounts. Early park admission WITH blockout dates.

Premier has no blockout dates. Free parking and merchandise/food discounts. Early park admission 365 days a year.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

At the time Horizons, Imagination, etc were removed the demand for those attractions wasn't there. We didn't know what would replace them and we assumed it would be better. Mission: SPACE especially wasn't a cheap replacement (Imagination obviously was). Expectations were for improvements.

The Aladdin show left DCA as the best theme park stage show in the country and the Frozen show that replaced is not as good. The ability to have a character "improvise" in a theme park made the show incredibly unique. They found a way to incorporate a similar function in the Frozen Sing a Long at DHS making that show tolerable, especially for one put together in 2 weeks.

My beef with the DCA version of Frozen is that it's more of the same. Disney does these shows very well, but there really isn't much unique about this one. Yes it has solid effects, performances, music, etc but it's not something that I have to see every time I visit. 90% of the time I go to DAK I see Festival of the Lion King. The same was true for Aladdin at DCA. Shows like Frozen, Finding Nemo, Beauty and the Beast, etc are once every other trip at most.

I do not see the Genie as a strength. His improvisations about Kim Kardashian brought the show to a stone cold stop. If the best thing about the show was a character who had to break the fourth wall and make anachronistic references, that means the show itself was weak. Frozen, despite some pacing issues, feels like an actual Broadway show, and thank God Olaf never stops the action to look right at me and make jokes about Glee.

 

[rael ramone]

Interesting to see as Matt Ouimet is investing in his parks 'Cedar Fair' their operating margin is going up, Guess the 'old' formula of building quality themed attractions works for everyone EXCEPT Disney these days

If it wasn't a MLP I'd be loading up on shares of $FUN...

 

[Bocabear]

Well, wrong again. If people were still flocking to Horizons or the original Sea Base Alpha, Disney would never have changed them. Doesn't matter the capacity, Disney knows exactly how many people were riding. When attendance goes down at an attraction, they look to see what else can bump up the attendance.

Oh, and yes, there were hour long waits in the 90's for POTC and 30-45 minute waits at HM, even during normal summer months, long before any FP system.

But don't you think some of the charm of those original attractions was diminished....which also lead to the decline in guest satisfaction? not so much Horizons, but The Living Seas...The Sea Cabs portion had been closed for YEARS...and it was just the movie and hydrolators... I think if the original pavilion had been kept as it was, they started using the Sea Cabs again, and then inserted Nemo into the tank scenes they way they have, it would have been enough...Leve the wonder of being transported under the sea to a laboratory on the ocean floor...Just let Nemo and Friends be part of what you see there...
Horizons was another story, and yes maybe it needed a little update, but my God that was an amazing attraction and never failed to excite and leave you feeling hopeful and optimistic about the future of the world... it was Epic. Maybe if they had built the whole Space Pavilion....where the ride was just the beginning, it would have been a more popular pavilion and people would not be missing Horizons so much..

 

[brb1006]

That really happened? Yuck! That would have been the straw that broke the camels back for me. I hate shows that break the fourth wall with commentary on pop culture, especially irrelevant members of said 'culture'

There are youtube videos that contains the best of Genie's jokes from each Aladdin show.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

But don't you think some of the charm of those original attractions was diminished....which also lead to the decline in guest satisfaction? not so much Horizons, but The Living Seas...The Sea Cabs portion had been closed for YEARS...and it was just the movie and hydrolators... I think if the original pavilion had been kept as it was, they started using the Sea Cabs again, and then inserted Nemo into the tank scenes they way they have, it would have been enough...Leve the wonder of being transported under the sea to a laboratory on the ocean floor...Just let Nemo and Friends be part of what you see there...
Horizons was another story, and yes maybe it needed a little update, but my God that was an amazing attraction and never failed to excite and leave you feeling hopeful and optimistic about the future of the world... it was Epic. Maybe if they had built the whole Space Pavilion....where the ride was just the beginning, it would have been a more popular pavilion and people would not be missing Horizons so much..

Sure, they possibly could, but that might have made no difference at all. People constantly complained about the hydrolators being too slow. Horizons left you feeling that way, but apparently, you were in the minority. Of course, you'd have to talk with Mr. Eisner as to why he did both, since both refurbs happened under his watch.

 

[ford91exploder]

But don't you think some of the charm of those original attractions was diminished....which also lead to the decline in guest satisfaction? not so much Horizons, but The Living Seas...The Sea Cabs portion had been closed for YEARS...and it was just the movie and hydrolators... I think if the original pavilion had been kept as it was, they started using the Sea Cabs again, and then inserted Nemo into the tank scenes they way they have, it would have been enough...Leve the wonder of being transported under the sea to a laboratory on the ocean floor...Just let Nemo and Friends be part of what you see there...
Horizons was another story, and yes maybe it needed a little update, but my God that was an amazing attraction and never failed to excite and leave you feeling hopeful and optimistic about the future of the world... it was Epic. Maybe if they had built the whole Space Pavilion....where the ride was just the beginning, it would have been a more popular pavilion and people would not be missing Horizons so much..

Horizons needed a minor update, As it's tech had the Star Trek ToS vibe but no one had any idea what modern tech interfaces would look like which are looking more and more like the iconic Okudagrams on Star Trek TNG http://micheleroohani.com/blog/2014/05/11/star-treks-elegant-okudagrams/

If M:S had been built as an addition to the Space pavillion it would have been far better received.

 

[Bocabear]

Horizons needed a minor update, As it's tech had the Star Trek ToS vibe but no one had any idea what modern tech interfaces would look like which are looking more and more like the iconic Okudagrams on Star Trek TNG http://micheleroohani.com/blog/2014/05/11/star-treks-elegant-okudagrams/

If M:S had been built as an addition to the Space pavillion it would have been far better received.

I thought that was the original plan...Mission Space would only be the Act 1 of the whole Space pavilion experience...

 

[ford91exploder]

I thought that was the original plan...Mission Space would only be the Act 1 of the whole Space pavilion experience...

There was a Space pavillion planned as an addition to Horizons but I never knew there was one with M:S as the foundation

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Not to go all Kippel on you both, but you're wrong. My opinion is right and no one else's matters.

"All Kippel"! Haha, best community in joke in a while. Luv it!