A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[Earl Sweatpants]

Sure, they possibly could, but that might have made no difference at all. People constantly complained about the hydrolators being too slow. Horizons left you feeling that way, but apparently, you were in the minority. Of course, you'd have to talk with Mr. Eisner as to why he did both, since both refurbs happened under his watch.

They could have easily taken into consideration the things that were "wrong" with the pavilions that were causing numbers to drop and worked to come up with new innovative ways to fix that, but instead they chose a cheap IP overlay and a total teardown. Its only in retrospect now that people are realizing how awesome things were and could have been today if given the proper adjustments.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

I also think part of the reason Horizons and Living Seas were "abandoned" had to do with losing their sponsors. Not sure how in-depth Disney went looking for replacements or not, but they didn't find any, and thus, we have what we have now. In fact, I think sponsorship ending has done much of FW in. Few remaining pavilions have a true sponsor anymore and you can see what that has left us with.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Aladdin is way overrated. Take out the improvising gimmick and you have a very average stage show. Frozen has it's issues but is a much higher quality production.

I make the same argument for Little Mermaid over Peter Pan in Fantasyland on here and I get lampooned. The backstory of Dinorama is also really well thought out but poorly executed. I just don't buy it. The improvising "gimmick" made for excellent execution. It's why we fell in love with Aladdin to begin with because Robin Williams was allowed a bit more creativity here.

They could have given more freedom with Olaf in the Frozen show to make up for this. Allowing for some variation adds a reason for guests to return. Add something beyond just a simple retelling of the story and guests are captivated. Frozen doesn't have that.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

They could have given more freedom with Olaf in the Frozen show to make up for this. Allowing for some variation adds a reason for guests to return. Add something beyond just a simple retelling of the story and guests are captivated. Frozen doesn't have that.

That's the only real way to plus an IP. Don't just bring it in and re-tell the movie...but take the characters and actually make something unique. Sadly, Disney hasn't completely figured this out yet.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Changes to Universal's APs from OU user NJBrandon. A new lower pass and additional perks to the older passes as well as an increased price. Someone who renewed today said that the renewal price has not increased. I thought this would be a good topic since this thread has been a little slow and ticket pricing is always a hot topic around here. I like that I now have EPA which used to only be for hotel guests even if it's not all year. Adds even more value to my AP.

My pass (Preferred) jumped from $309 to $384 and all extra I get is Early Morning Admission WITH blackouts? What are the renewal rates going to be?

I have to say, in true Disney spirit, I enjoy the product enough to suck it up and pay it. Especially, with all the new content coming online in the next few years. I know Kong has been ripped to shreds by many and I am, quite frankly, baffled. I really like it. It's fun. They also knocked it out of the park with Toothsome's. So, yeah, I'll be renewing.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think you conflate lack of a line with lack of demand Horizons and Imagination 1.0 were Omnimovers done RIGHT with ride capacities undreamed of today. Think pre FP+ PoTC and HM did those ever have a line... with the exceptions of Holiday peaks and NYE.

There's certainly an element of that with Horizons capacity in the 2500-2800 range. But keep in mind while Horizons, Imagination and World of Motion were family favorites, we were excited about the next iterations of those pavilions. It's hard to get excited about a 6 month retheme of DCA's Tower of Terror, or re-telling the Frozen story.

The argument that the fan community blew their justifiable complaint chance on Aladdin is ignorant. Disney is making bad decisions and they should be called out for doing so. Ultimately replacing Horizons with Mission: SPACE was a mistake, but it was a mistake in hindsight, not a mistake at the time. The differences with today's mistakes are that intelligent fans are identifying them as mistakes before it's too late, yet Disney is moving forward anyways.

In the Iger administration, Disney has moved forward with several projects despite fan protests and the fans have been correct. Historically, Disney was smart enough to know what the fans wanted before the fans themselves knew. Now that has flipped.

• My Magic+: Fans recognized very early on that this was a mistake and a financial nightmare.
• Frozen Ever After: Fans recognized the thematic and operational issues that came to fruition
• World Showcase Entertainment changes: Fans were most upset at Off Kilter getting the boot, and the Old Mill stage has been home to a revolving door of lesser acts. (Addendum to this, I think World Showcase Entertainment is actually in pretty good shape outside of Canada).
• Aladdin to be replaced by Toy Story: At the time, the Aladdin show was the best thing in that park, fan's complained and successfully staved off the execution.
• Aladdin ultimately replaced by Frozen: Conflicting opinions here, you know what side I'm on.
• Guardians of the Tower: Honestly, I don't hate it, but that doesn't make it a good idea. They're doing this in 6 months. It's going to take longer to convert Pizza Planet to PizzaRizzo.
  
• Guardians in Energy: Not confirmed by the company yet, so I reserve the right to change my opinion here. My argument now is primarily on thematic fit in what has become the worst Disney park in the country.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

There's certainly an element of that with Horizons capacity in the 2500-2800 range. But keep in mind while Horizons, Imagination and World of Motion were family favorites, we were excited about the next iterations of those pavilions. It's hard to get excited about a 6 month retheme of DCA's Tower of Terror, or re-telling the Frozen story.

The argument that the fan community blew their justifiable complaint chance on Aladdin is ignorant. Disney is making bad decisions and they should be called out for doing so. Ultimately replacing Horizons with Mission: SPACE was a mistake, but it was a mistake in hindsight, not a mistake at the time. The differences with today's mistakes are that intelligent fans are identifying them as mistakes before it's too late, yet Disney is moving forward anyways.

In the Iger administration, Disney has moved forward with several projects despite fan protests and the fans have been correct. Historically, Disney was smart enough to know what the fans wanted before the fans themselves knew. Now that has flipped.

• My Magic+: Fans recognized very early on that this was a mistake and a financial nightmare.
• Frozen Ever After: Fans recognized the thematic and operational issues that came to fruition
• World Showcase Entertainment changes: Fans were most upset at Off Kilter getting the boot, and the Old Mill stage has been home to a revolving door of lesser acts. (Addendum to this, I think World Showcase Entertainment is actually in pretty good shape outside of Canada).
• Aladdin to be replaced by Toy Story: At the time, the Aladdin show was the best thing in that park, fan's complained and successful staved off the execution.
• Aladdin ultimately replaced by Frozen: Conflicting opinions here, you know what side I'm on.
• Guardians of the Tower: Honestly, I don't hate it, but that doesn't make it a good idea. They're doing this in 6 months. It's going to take longer to convert Pizza Planet to PizzaRizzo.
  
• Guardians in Energy: Not confirmed by the company yet, so I reserve the right to change my opinion here. My argument now is primarily on thematic fit in what has become the worst Disney park in the country.

And I think we're likely to see these bad decisions continue until the day IP-ger and company leave office. One can only hope that whoever replaces them can see the light and make the necessary changes to move things back in the right direction.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Changes to Universal's APs from OU user NJBrandon. A new lower pass and additional perks to the older passes as well as an increased price. Someone who renewed today said that the renewal price has not increased. I thought this would be a good topic since this thread has been a little slow and ticket pricing is always a hot topic around here. I like that I now have EPA which used to only be for hotel guests even if it's not all year. Adds even more value to my AP.

A point of note here is that it looks like the two lowest rung passes (now Seasonal and Power Pass) have added discounts for purchasing park tickets. I'm fairly sure the previous blockout date pass (Power Pass) did not offer that discount. As a breakdown here it is:

• Seasonal Pass - Blockout dates in the summer and around holidays, 10% discount on additional park tickets on gate price (minimal savings over buying online, $4 for adults, $3 for kids)
• Power Pass - Blockout dates around holidays, 15% discount on additional park tickets on gate price (better savings over buying online, $16 less for adults, $14.50 for kids), 50% parking
  
• Preferred Pass - No blockout dates, 15% discount on additional park tickets on gate price, 10% on food and merch, free parking
  
• Premier Pass - No blockout dates, all discounts and additional perks

I'm trying to clarify a few other things though. If anyone can confirm these:

• Are the Harry Potter stores/dining locations included in the 10% discounts, I believe they are
• I've also heard that the park ticket discount (10 or 15%) can actually be applied to the online price if you buy the tickets over the phone. The gate price for an adult 2 day hopper for example is $239.99 but the online price is $219.99.

 

[RSoxNo1]

My pass (Preferred) jumped from $309 to $384 and all extra I get is Early Morning Admission WITH blackouts? What are the renewal rates going to be?

I have to say, in true Disney spirit, I enjoy the product enough to suck it up and pay it. Especially, with all the new content coming online in the next few years. I know Kong has been ripped to shreds by many and I am, quite frankly, baffled. I really like it. It's fun. They also knocked it out of the park with Toothsome's. So, yeah, I'll be renewing.

FWIW, Toothsome's is not yet listed on the discount options for the Preferred and Premier Passes

 

[Mike S]

My pass (Preferred) jumped from $309 to $349 and all extra I get is Early Morning Admission WITH blackouts? What are the renewal rates going to be?

I have to say, in true Disney spirit, I enjoy the product enough to suck it up and pay it. Especially, with all the new content coming online in the next few years. I know Kong has been ripped to shreds by many and I am, quite frankly, baffled. I really like it. It's fun. They also knocked it out of the park with Toothsome's. So, yeah, I'll be renewing.

There you go. $384 was non FL resident. That would've been very shocking if your pass jumped nearly $80. No news on renewal price yet.

A point of note here is that it looks like the two lowest rung passes (now Seasonal and Power Pass) have added discounts for purchasing park tickets. I'm fairly sure the previous blockout date pass (Power Pass) did not offer that discount. As a breakdown here it is:

• Seasonal Pass - Blockout dates in the summer and around holidays, 10% discount on additional park tickets on gate price (minimal savings over buying online, $4 for adults, $3 for kids)
• Power Pass - Blockout dates around holidays, 15% discount on additional park tickets on gate price (better savings over buying online, $16 less for adults, $14.50 for kids), 50% parking
  
• Preferred Pass - No blockout dates, 15% discount on additional park tickets on gate price, 10% on food and merch, free parking
  
• Premier Pass - No blockout dates, all discounts and additional perks

I'm trying to clarify a few other things though. If anyone can confirm these:

• Are the Harry Potter stores/dining locations included in the 10% discounts, I believe they are
• I've also heard that the park ticket discount (10 or 15%) can actually be applied to the online price if you buy the tickets over the phone. The gate price for an adult 2 day hopper for example is $239.99 but the online price is $219.99.

The discount definitely applies at HP. I use it every time I get Butterbeer.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The discount definitely applies at HP. I use it every time I get Butterbeer.

Restaurants only or does the cart in Hogsmeade also get it?

 

[Mike S]

Restaurants only or does the cart in Hogsmeade also get it?

I'm sure it's both. One thing I've realized is that at Universal, unlike Disney, the places that accept the AP discounts are nearly everywhere in the parks. I don't even bother asking at Disney anymore. It's ridiculous.

 

[asianway]

"All Kippel"! Haha, best community in joke in a while. Luv it!

Ill take "Kippel as a verb" for $1000 Alex

 

[Mike S]

Ill take "Kippel as a verb" for $1000 Alex

 

[Disneyhead'71]

There you go. $384 was non FL resident. That would've been very shocking if your pass jumped nearly $80. No news on renewal price yet.

The discount definitely applies at HP. I use it every time I get Butterbeer.

Whew! I missed the key at they top. I was thinking it was (Child/Adult), but I forgot APs don't have child prices.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I make the same argument for Little Mermaid over Peter Pan in Fantasyland on here and I get lampooned. The backstory of Dinorama is also really well thought out but poorly executed. I just don't buy it. The improvising "gimmick" made for excellent execution. It's why we fell in love with Aladdin to begin with because Robin Williams was allowed a bit more creativity here.

They could have given more freedom with Olaf in the Frozen show to make up for this. Allowing for some variation adds a reason for guests to return. Add something beyond just a simple retelling of the story and guests are captivated. Frozen doesn't have that.

I'm not sure which side you are arguing on Mermaid vs Pan, but IMO Pan is overrated. I'm not sure the general consensus on Mermaid in Florida, but in California it's not highly regarded by most.

I disagree on the improvising in Aladdin being executed well (in the DCA show.) It dragged on way too long much of the time and personally I found less than half the jokes actually landed. Perhaps I have just seen and participated in too many quality theater productions that included improvisation.

 

[TalkingHead]

Free parking is a must if I'm buying an AP to either Uni or WDW. $20 to park is highway robbery, so there's no way I'd do that as a semi-local.

The parking discount is an interesting perk, but 50% off still makes it $10 to park. I guess that's not too bad if you're only using the pass a few times, but it's still not something I'd want to pay as an AP holder.

In fact, for $389 (+ tax?), I'd say the Preferred Pass is getting close to being overpriced. But other than Potter, I feel that Universal has settled into a rut of decent-but-not-spectacular additions. Of course, the same could be said of WDW, but it's too bad that Universal hasn't pushed the bar more outside of Potter.

To be fair, I think WDW's APs are overpriced, too, except for the weekday pass. If you have a job that allows you to use it, that's by far the best bargain -- it's $275 including tax and includes parking. Sure, it's got the standard summer, Xmas, and spring break block out days and of course you can't use it on weekends. But it's the right price for the product.

Similarly, a Universal pass that decreases the blockout days while raising the price earns a big shrug. Who in their right mind wants to go in June or July, or wants to wait 3 hours in late December to ride the same stuff you've ridden a hundred times before?

 

[TeriofTerror]

I'm with @RSoxNo1 on the Aladdin show. It was the best surprise of my DL trip.
I knew I'd love Carsland, I knew I'd love the Walk in Walt's Footsteps tour, I even knew I'd love Steakhouse 55. But Aladdin was a little hidden gem I wasn't expecting.

 

[Mike S]

I'm with @RSoxNo1 on the Aladdin show. It was the best surprise of my DL trip.
I knew I'd love Carsland, I knew I'd love the Walk in Walt's Footsteps tour, I even knew I'd love Steakhouse 55. But Aladdin was a little hidden gem I wasn't expecting.

I liked it too but theme park shows shouldn't stick around for so long. Just look at Mermaid and B&tB at DHS. Entertainment like that should be plussed or changed on a more regular basis. Although I enjoy it a great deal I accept that one day Finding Nemo will leave DAK for a new offering (hopefully...). Live shows shouldn't have the same permanence as other attractions in a park since theaters are much more easily adapted to change.

 

[TeriofTerror]

I liked it too but theme park shows shouldn't stick around for so long. Just look at Mermaid and B&tB at DHS. Entertainment like that should be plussed or changed on a more regular basis. Although I enjoy it a great deal I accept that one day Finding Nemo will leave DAK for a new offering (hopefully...). Live shows shouldn't have the same permanence as other attractions in a park since theaters are much more easily adapted to change.

I wouldn't say that to the Off Kilter fans!
Change can be good, as long as the replacement is equal to or greater than the original.