A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
The comments are most entertaining, and No its not me.

A sample comment no not mine either

Disney has become like walmart, greedy/heartless behemoth, they replace workers with foreign workers and threaten the US worker that they will not get there severance package til the foreign worker replacement is properly trained, plus who wants to pay a $100 dollar day pass to stand in line for 2 hours to get on a 1 minute ride, I don't want to be rubbing against sweaty people in crowds during a hot florida day waiting in line to pay for a $6 bottle of water or a $30 T-shirt made in china, no wonder there merchandise sales is down also.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I was just skimming, but are the Parks mentioned in this? I didn't see it if they were.

No, I was listening to the conference call and there wasn't much mentioned about the parks... other than the drop in WDW attendance is a function in higher prices. Iger suggested it made for a more pleasant park experience.

While attendance may be down, the crowd level and the amount you're waiting is higher than ever.

Also... its very interesting to see Iger saying that [Disney] is not a quarter-to-quarter business, or something to that effect. Never seen that before. When pushed on CEO succession, Iger said he wasnt planning on staying past 2018 and the Board is well on it's way on it's search. I've never heard a Fortune 100 Company call Wall Street out like that but he raises a point, Disney is a long term company. It is not a quarter to quarter business and I've been waiting 12 years to hear that.

Whether anything comes of it, Who knows.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
No, I was listening to the conference call and there wasn't much mentioned about the parks... other than the drop in WDW attendance is a function in higher prices. Iger suggested it made for a more pleasant park experience.

While attendance may be down, the crowd level and the amount you're waiting is higher than ever.

Also... its very interesting to see Iger saying that [Disney] is not a quarter-to-quarter business, or something to that effect. Never seen that before. When pushed on CEO succession, Iger said he wasnt planning on staying past 2018 and the Board is well on it's way on it's search. I've never heard a Fortune 100 Company call Wall Street out like that but he raises a point, Disney is a long term company. It is not a quarter to quarter business and I've been waiting 12 years to hear that.

Whether anything comes of it, Who knows.

Methinks Iger protesteth too much because since MM+ and the Mouse Arrest bands the place sure has been run quarter to quarter and now he hopes no one is noticing that fact.
 

tribbleorlfl

Well-Known Member
I guess what you're saying is in a perfect world where money's not an issue and people can be hand-picked for the work, WDW could straighten things out in 2 years.

Ok, you're right. I guess that proves you're not pixie-dusting.

(And never mind Uni was never in the position of WDW. Smaller resort, less infrastructure, fewer parks, newer attractions...for starters.)
Yes, they absolutely were. I opened IOA and I was shocked how quickly things deteriorated. Within 6 months, there was a nasty green algae stain growing in Bluto's, effects like the exploding pier at Dudley's were broken, props in Spiderman's queue were stolen or damaged and not replaced, etc. Stores, restaurants and attractions were shuttered just like WDW has now.

By the time I left 6 years later, UO was looking real rundown and employee morale was in the toilet. Park-wide unionization efforts came the closest they ever had to passing. Big time staffing cuts and management reorganization. Bonds were coming due and they were looking to restructure their debt. I didn't have much hope for change, either, as GE made it clear they had no experience running theme parks and had no interest in holding onto them

But WWOHP changed everything. Anybody else remember the massive parks-wide refresher that happened right before JKR toured the parks for the HP proposal? Areas that hadn't been touched since opening day got fresh coats of paint and non-working effects were repaired, just for their walkthrough.

Due to WB and JKR's oversight and insistence on quality, UO finally learned what WDW used to know and practice: if you want to be successful in the theme park industry, you have to constantly improve and innovate, keep everything well-maintained and most importantly, invest in your people.

This led the renaissance that's still ongoing there. My hope is they don't go back to resting on their laurels and keep it up.

My hope is WDW will remember what made them the undisputed king and reverse the course just like UO did.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
Yes, they absolutely were. I opened IOA and I was shocked how quickly things deteriorated. Within 6 months, there was a nasty green algae stain growing in Bluto's, effects like the exploding pier at Dudley's were broken, props in Spiderman's queue were stolen or damaged and not replaced, etc. Stores, restaurants and attractions were shuttered just like WDW has now.

By the time I left 6 years later, UO was looking real rundown and employee morale was in the toilet. Park-wide unionization efforts came the closest they ever had to passing. Big time staffing cuts and management reorganization. Bonds were coming due and they were looking to restructure their debt. I didn't have much hope for change, either, as GE made it clear they had no experience running theme parks and had no interest in holding onto them

But WWOHP changed everything. Anybody else remember the massive parks-wide refresher that happened right before JKR toured the parks for the HP proposal? Areas that hadn't been touched since opening day got fresh coats of paint and non-working effects were repaired, just for their walkthrough.

Due to WB and JKR's oversight and insistence on quality, UO finally learned what WDW used to know and practice: if you want to be successful in the theme park industry, you have to constantly improve and innovate, keep everything well-maintained and most importantly, invest in your people.

This led the renaissance that's still ongoing there. My hope is they don't go back to resting on their laurels and keep it up.

My hope is WDW will remember what made them the undisputed king and reverse the course just like UO did.

They're absolutely not the same. Look at the size and scale of the two properties if nothing else. 4 parks, 2 (formerly 3 water parks), monorails versus 2 parks.

Universal had dark days but was never in the shape that WDW is in today.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Yes, they absolutely were. I opened IOA and I was shocked how quickly things deteriorated. Within 6 months, there was a nasty green algae stain growing in Bluto's, effects like the exploding pier at Dudley's were broken, props in Spiderman's queue were stolen or damaged and not replaced, etc. Stores, restaurants and attractions were shuttered just like WDW has now.

By the time I left 6 years later, UO was looking real rundown and employee morale was in the toilet. Park-wide unionization efforts came the closest they ever had to passing. Big time staffing cuts and management reorganization. Bonds were coming due and they were looking to restructure their debt. I didn't have much hope for change, either, as GE made it clear they had no experience running theme parks and had no interest in holding onto them

But WWOHP changed everything. Anybody else remember the massive parks-wide refresher that happened right before JKR toured the parks for the HP proposal? Areas that hadn't been touched since opening day got fresh coats of paint and non-working effects were repaired, just for their walkthrough.

Due to WB and JKR's oversight and insistence on quality, UO finally learned what WDW used to know and practice: if you want to be successful in the theme park industry, you have to constantly improve and innovate, keep everything well-maintained and most importantly, invest in your people.

This led the renaissance that's still ongoing there. My hope is they don't go back to resting on their laurels and keep it up.

My hope is WDW will remember what made them the undisputed king and reverse the course just like UO did.
I'd like to imagine this happening between Walt Disney and the modern WDC executives.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Here's another consideration: why are fanboys still insisting Shanghai had nothing do to with the overall cuts, even though the company itself admitted cost overruns had made worldwide cuts necessary?

Can I have some of that pixie dust? It must make you feel great!

(Also, if Disney is serious about security, CMs need a better checkpoint than a quick glance at their peanut butter sandwiches.)

I have returned from a recent visit to O-Town where I hit up all four WDW parks and both UNI parks and, naturally, I have things to say ... and a bit of news as well.

I hesitated starting this one because well ... we've been down this road before. And some people will come here looking for news on an amazing new Marvel coaster for EPCOT that hasn't been announced yet and be disappointed (don't be, my friends and online stalkers, as there is one coming ... to Shanghai! Guess no one has announced that yet. Maybe it will be borrowed to go along with my GotG Tower tale.) to find me talking about why I don't really care how well Disney is doing at the box office or why US fanbois who are too afraid to visit China really should tone down the drool over SDL (yeah, they got Pirates right ... but nothing else in that park comes close to it).

I also don't get hot and bothered by refurbed/rebranded malls and their infrastructure.

And do you really want to know why security was beefed up? Why are you going through those scanners and security theater (to be fair, this week it is all real ... that's what the Invictus Games, Mrs. Obama and Prince UKer -- I think that's @marni1971 -- will do)? You don't expect a Lifestyler to talk about direct threats on the MK do you? You think you'll get free cupcake party invites by talking about bad people wanting to do bad things at WDW? Nope.

Well, I won't either, I'll just let you connect the dots. I'll just tell you that people are VERY concerned and that I have never seen so much security and that includes during Ronald Reagan's second inaugural, 12/31/99 and post 9/11. There is unheard of security at WDW, made much easier by some of those 'residents' of Golden Oak.

So, why don't we start by talking about those Wall Street results. No, not directly. @PhotoDave219 has that covered in the quarterly earnings thread ... but why don't we talk about what WDW is like right now? Got a drink handy? An adult one? A non-Disney adult one (you know because a tablespoon of alcohol for $12 just doesn't cut it with people not addicted to Pixie Dust and the BRAND).

Let's chat some.
 

Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
But isn't Goofy's Sky School...another mini coaster just on the other side of that? That would be two mini coaster fairly close together...

goofy is a mini coaster but is actually quite a distance from the location i am referring to. right now the only attractions in what used to bee Condor flats is Soarin which has a height requirement. it is normal to see one of the parents sitting around with children waiting in the area for the rest of the family to get out of Soarin with nothing else to do there. The nearest place for them would be grizzly trail but most don't go that far because it separates the family.

Goofy is actually on the other end in Paradise Pier.

the area i am suggesting would place this small coaster a few feet from Soarin in a large area that just serves as green space.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
The stories in this thread have made me realize something. People keep talking about the 50th anniversary and what they want Disney to do for it. New E Tickets, new parades, new fireworks, etc. You know what I want for it? Resort wide renovations on the level DLP is getting for its 25th anniversary. I'd like to see the place shine like it hasn't for a long time. We have a little over 5 years before it hits so that should be more than enough time for them to do it all and of course this would affect guests but it would all be worth it in the long run. Sadly I doubt this would happen. Prepare yourselves for the 50th cupcake party for the amazing value of $149.99 per head.
I'll pay if that includes a restored Epcot.
 

Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
It's not the worth the effort. They might as well just buy a new flat ride for the same cost if they want to add yet another small ride to DCA. Gadget's is not a good attraction and very few will mourn its loss.

thats true, i do know many children though that enjoy the coaster. gives them their first taste of a fast ride.

i would prefer a family train ride in the same area that i suggested. i think that something like casey junior would be fun.
the train can change elevations and go over the geyser area of grizzley rapids and then turn back and use some of the green space for track placement.

i once did a design that would have had the track run behind the restrooms and shop of condor flats and then use the empty space where they have the vintage car and then go back to the green space by the monorail tracks. During the remodel of Condor flats to turn it into grizzly expansion lots of dirt was removed from the side of the mountain between BVS and the old Condor shop. There is actually more space then it seems without affecting grizzly mountain or its foundation.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
More than anything else, the execs seem to be using Shanghai and NGE as scapegoats for their poor management during the last 20 years, and their inability to deliver the incredible lands they promised when they tried to cover their failures.

I'm more interested in the recently overinflated ticket, resort, and food prices. Who's the imaginary demographic Disney is pursuing? A Disney vacation will soon be too expensive for an average upper-middle-class family, and wealthy people won't be impressed when they show up and their $800/night room is closer to a Courtyard Marriott than a Ritz.


Well... how to begin? First of all, thank you for reading and replying. I said I didn't mean to pick a fight, but of course that's how it erupted. One of my big flaws is that each of my posts is the length of an essay, so I appologize in advance.

No, I'm no expert on painting themed facilities. Look, to me it seems that more than 50% of the paint is ready. Maybe not. But everything looks good, no worse than the other parks, that's for sure. If you meant that some things got one or two coats instead of three, well then, I hope they keep touching it all up with new paint. And I also could not even begin to put this on the same level as HKDL opening day (or even present day). But whatever, we disagree. You are correct that most of this topic is nothing but opinion, so it's not worth arguing over.

I'm moreso sick and tired of #thanksshanghai and "oh, the cuts are because of blank." It's giving an excuse to something that doesn't deserve any justification. Did Disneyland become crap in the late 60s because WDW was being built? No. Did MK become crap when Disney spent 90% of their theme park profits on Epcot? No. But today, when the company has billions of dollars in the bank, their capex % of whatever (have no idea of the actual number, maybe @ParentsOf4 knows, but less than the majority of their history) is enough to suddenly warrant cuts? Why the excuse now? Thank you for at least partially agreeing with me there, but everyone else is still putting blame on project or situtation X rather than on the execs making the decisions.

I'm no fanboi, and I'm actually defending Disney less than everyone else!

I've also lost a bit of trust, in general, after the recent Star Wars Land shock. Bob Iger announced that SWL construction would begin in April, and a whole list of things in the back of the park was closed or had been scheduled to close in April for months. The evidence was clear, yet people still insisted that SWL was going in the stunt show area, only because their sources told them so. I was on that sinking ship for a while and only hopped off a bit before most people, so I'm not giving myself credit. I'm just saying that, while this kind of blindness isn't really your fault, in retrospect it's certainly made me say "hmmm" more often.

I'm just trying to use my head. My head obviously has no inside information of any sort, but certain things don't line up, and that's something I can recognize. Maybe you're right. Maybe in 10 years I'll be like "oh huh, he was on the spot, it all makes sense." And I'd love for that to be the case, I really would. I wouldn't mind being completely wrong, to know that your information and everything you said all lines up, and that our most outspoken member is still on course. I don't hate you at all, it's the opposite. The insults... they sting in that good kind of way.

I just, well, have my doubts. Doubts which I think are pretty valid. Hopefully you understand. And if you don't, lets at least move on from here.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Here's another consideration: why are fanboys still insisting Shanghai had nothing do to with the overall cuts, even though the company itself admitted cost overruns had made worldwide cuts necessary?

Can I have some of that pixie dust? It must make you feel great!
Most of those who I have seen take issue with blaming Shanghai Disney Resort, including myself, are not denying the cuts or defending them. That project is the current excuse, the true problem is the whole model where such cuts are the only and immediate response.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Great post. I really am sorry I didn't know you were around. I would have actually bought a round or two!

Not much to add beyond I think I had grumpier CMs than you did. One bothered me enough at DAK to merit a complaint. Never rode Splash Mountain, which is bothering me now, so I can't comment on that. Skipper Logan on Jungle Cruise was fantastic, even when going off script.

But show quality across the board is abysmal. I don't get how ignorant most fans who praise the place must be to not see simple things (and Small World most definitely is a great MK example of that ... Space Mtn and Buzz and CoP round out a ghetto Tomorrowland).

Those parking lot trams? Oy vey. I try and never need one, but I did Saturday night at MK and ... just sad.

Mansion always has crap tossed on the side of the Buggies and they just leave it until closing. One time the CM started the show before the doors had closed totally blowing the illusion. You wonder if she even had/has a clue.

Restrooms were dirty and often had no water coming out of faucets or a trickle.

Hub sorta looks nice. Until you get close up. No trees. No shade. No cohesive art direction. ... But, hey, that FP viewing area will now be used for more rubes paying for cupcake parties.

Apparently, the SDMT has already decided the wicked queen can't cackle at the end. Not sure if she's broken or if the mommy of a special needs child complained.

Only attraction that was noticeably better was Pirates, which was a poopie show last fall. Looked quite good now.

Those are just a few MK observations ...
Now I see why alot of people miss seeing the trees near Cinderella Castle.
 

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