A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

hopemax

Well-Known Member
I agree about the oldtimers being missed and Greg was widely respected on both coasts. I thought he was VP of EPCOT until Georgie K got the gig in 1995, though? Wasn't he at MK and when he moved up to Sr VP of Ops, Erin Wallace became VP of MK, only to move up and be replaced by Phil Holmes who somehow still remains employed with the company as VP of The Corpse of The Disney-MGM Studios.

I got the dates from his LinkedIn profile. Didn't look deeper than that.

But looking deeper. Looks like he replaced Bill Sullivan at MK announced Feb 2004, and prior to that he was Epcot VP. Linda Warren was Epcot VP before George K.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1994-02-05/business/9402050662_1_walt-disney-epcot-senior-vice

Edit: Looking at the list of Epcot VPs in the last decade, no wonder that park has no identity, people come and and go faster than the construction time for an attraction!
 
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ProfSavage

Well-Known Member
Hey @rybarr87 props for the Bene Gesserit litany against fear.

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Schneewittchen

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, the "little guy" gets no reward in the end. The sad thing, is that WDW is playing out like Disneyland did 15 years ago. When they added the NBC overlay on the Haunted Mansion they found out how much of the structure had rotted away, and it took several years of NBC overlays to squeeze out the budget to restore the attraction. When they rehabbed Space Mountain, it wasn't just the track that was bad, they also found about half of the projectors had stopped working. How much effect does that much not working have on the experience for the "little guy?" When the Enchanted Tiki Room was restored, the difference was night and day. Given how many effects I know aren't working in various attractions, and given Disneyland's history, and given Florida's more punishing climate, I don't even want to think about what percentage of effects are actually functional at WDW and what shape the structures are in; because in the great scheme of things, what an individual guest knows about the effects is small (unless you're Martin). That does no one any favors. Guests pay for a deteriorated experience, and then go home feeling like things are "dated." WDW is looking at spending many more millions to design a new attraction, when there was more mileage to be had out of the original, if only everything was kept clean and functional. And take what we hear out of the Frozen redo, "the building was in worse shape than they thought, and that created delays." You think that is only true about Maelstrom's show building? New paint is only one detail out of hundreds that need to be attended to; but somehow they've learned as long as you paint you don't have to do X,Y,Z because people will see the new paint and think everything is taken care of.

Only, unlike Disneyland, there is no one who believes a different way is better. This is the WDW, management desires. At some point, the narrative will once again be that "theme parks are a mature market," and not worth the investment, when all it really was, was people that got tired of spending a lot of money for something that is dirty and broken.

You've reminded me of a facilities truth that I sometimes forget. I work for a large public entity with lots of buildings on a campus.

We get budget money or grants or donations and then build awesome new buildings with bells, whistles, lasers and doodads. But the budget for maintaining our facilities never goes up. It's so bad that rotten woodwork on the exterior of a once stately, historic building just gets a new coat of paint to try and cover up the real problems - mold, vermin, leaky roof. Eventually, it gets so bad that work finally gets funded, the whole building is gutted, the historic fascade is "preserved" and we get a new facility.

Sounds like Disney wants to work for me.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Great post. I really am sorry I didn't know you were around. I would have actually bought a round or two!

Not much to add beyond I think I had grumpier CMs than you did. One bothered me enough at DAK to merit a complaint. Never rode Splash Mountain, which is bothering me now, so I can't comment on that. Skipper Logan on Jungle Cruise was fantastic, even when going off script.

But show quality across the board is abysmal. I don't get how ignorant most fans who praise the place must be to not see simple things (and Small World most definitely is a great MK example of that ... Space Mtn and Buzz and CoP round out a ghetto Tomorrowland).

Those parking lot trams? Oy vey. I try and never need one, but I did Saturday night at MK and ... just sad.

Mansion always has crap tossed on the side of the Buggies and they just leave it until closing. One time the CM started the show before the doors had closed totally blowing the illusion. You wonder if she even had/has a clue.

Restrooms were dirty and often had no water coming out of faucets or a trickle.

Hub sorta looks nice. Until you get close up. No trees. No shade. No cohesive art direction. ... But, hey, that FP viewing area will now be used for more rubes paying for cupcake parties.

Apparently, the SDMT has already decided the wicked queen can't cackle at the end. Not sure if she's broken or if the mommy of a special needs child complained.

Only attraction that was noticeably better was Pirates, which was a poopie show last fall. Looked quite good now.

Those are just a few MK observations ...
I rode a MK tram Saturday night... Maybe............ :cautious:

I agree on the rest but I'm sure I heard the Witch's cackle on SDMT over the weekend.
 

Schneewittchen

Well-Known Member
Ive lived a large amount of my life around DC. I lived in NoVa when that beltway sniper happened.

From my experiences.... you can't be afraid of the "what ifs." All you end up is afraid of fear itself. (Sorry Churchill)

Its like worrying the sun will explode or a satelite/meteor will crash from the sky. Cant worry about that stuff....

Yep, I'm a DC person too. 9/11, the sniper, etc.

The whole town is a target, and you just can't live if you're afraid of what might happen. 5 million people live here. The odds are ever in my favor that if something bad happens it won't affect me....
 

DanaG

Member
I think I've put some out already and need to run off for the evening shortly ... but if you have specific questions I'll be glad to try to answer them.

The quick version is UNI deserves the money in O-Town and Disney absolutely does not. (And before my haters, love ya Jake, get on me here let me state that I barely spent money on Disney at all. A pittance is all they got from me ... and that doesn't include the Coke I stole or the bars of soap from the housekeepers carts!



I would just like to make one small
Comment on this:
I have two smallish children. (And I own a small travel company that does a lot of Disney- full disclosure) Most of my families with older children are adding time at Universal or spending entire trips there. However, families with small children (mine included) don't find that they can fill multiple days at Universal. So, while the parks might be cleaner and the hotels might be nicer (i.e. cabana bay) many families are still choosing Disney over Universal because the Disney parks (perceived or not) are seen as more small child friendly.
In addition, it is cost prohibitive for families to add one or two days at Universal when they are thinking adding one more day at Disney only costs $11 (i.e. Going from a five day to a six day ticket)
And the families that are making these trips are not coming back and discussing the trash at the parks with me (i am sure it's true, it's just not something I hear feedback on).
I got sidetracked- but bottom line I think that Universal has some work to do for families with young children. People do not see the value in a park where kids can ride a minority of rides. Therefore Disney will continue to "win" those families for the foreseeable future.
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
I would just like to make one small
Comment on this:
I have two smallish children. (And I own a small travel company that does a lot of Disney- full disclosure) Most of my families with older children are adding time at Universal or spending entire trips there. However, families with small children (mine included) don't find that they can fill multiple days at Universal. So, while the parks might be cleaner and the hotels might be nicer (i.e. cabana bay) many families are still choosing Disney over Universal because the Disney parks (perceived or not) are seen as more small child friendly.
In addition, it is cost prohibitive for families to add one or two days at Universal when they are thinking adding one more day at Disney only costs $11 (i.e. Going from a five day to a six day ticket)
And the families that are making these trips are not coming back and discussing the trash at the parks with me (i am sure it's true, it's just not something I hear feedback on).
I got sidetracked- but bottom line I think that Universal has some work to do for families with young children. People do not see the value in a park where kids can ride a minority of rides. Therefore Disney will continue to "win" those families for the foreseeable future.
With the aquisition of the DreamWorks properties and in addition to the IPs that Nintendo will bring, I'd find it difficult to imagine Disney doing more to bring in the little kids in the next ten years.
 

DanaG

Member
With the aquisition of the DreamWorks properties and in addition to the IPs that Nintendo will bring, I'd find it difficult to imagine Disney doing more to bring in the little kids in the next ten years.

That is totally true. And while I think it works to resolve the issue I don't think that my kids (personal) are as excited about Madagascar characters as Sofia and Jake. Dreamworks doesn't have a tv station that plays cartoons daily whereas Disney does. Not saying it's not going to make a difference I just don't think the properties they are acquiring have the same reach that the Disney characters have.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
With the aquisition of the DreamWorks properties and in addition to the IPs that Nintendo will bring, I'd find it difficult to imagine Disney doing more to bring in the little kids in the next ten years.

Wonder who Hasbro is selling all those MARVEL toys to? And Star Wars. And Pixar. And ........ Star Wars Rouge One.... Star Wars 8. You get the point.

Great to see videos from the park that the "Weatherman" could never get negotiated from opening day. Not actually opening day but they seem to be ahead of schedule.

And Pandora "the land JC was too difficult for it to get past the concept stage" seems to have moved past the concept stage.

And Star Wars Land, "the land that would not happen until 2021 at the earliest" is picking up speed as Walt's plane has been safely removed.

And Soarin looks great with added new capacity due to demand. Ditto TSMM.

DAK 2.0 makes for a full day park. Etc. Etc. I return to the parks next year. They have earned my business for sure. Just as they have at the movies.
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
That is totally true. And while I think it works to resolve the issue I don't think that my kids (personal) are as excited about Madagascar characters as Sofia and Jake. Dreamworks doesn't have a tv station that plays cartoons daily whereas Disney does. Not saying it's not going to make a difference I just don't think the properties they are acquiring have the same reach that the Disney characters have.

Thats actually being worked on. Just to note which is part of the reason why Comcast wanted to acquire Dreamworks was for their TV operation. Dreamworks also has a huge library of hidden teasures they haven't pulled out yet and have rights that people are just finding out about (didn't know they actually bought the intellectual rights to troll dolls, I thought just the movie but found today that they actually own the company)/
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
That is totally true. And while I think it works to resolve the issue I don't think that my kids (personal) are as excited about Madagascar characters as Sofia and Jake. Dreamworks doesn't have a tv station that plays cartoons daily whereas Disney does. Not saying it's not going to make a difference I just don't think the properties they are acquiring have the same reach that the Disney characters have.
But Mario and his brother... They're iconic, more so than soo many characters. They don't even need a TV show for people to know who they are. It's going to be pretty cool once it happens.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
But Mario and his brother... They're iconic, more so than soo many characters. They don't even need a TV show for people to know who they are. It's going to be pretty cool once it happens.
I know I've read that Mario is just as recognizable or possibly more so than Mickey Mouse.
I will believe it when I see the construction.
And we'll believe your pendulum BS when we see it as well.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
Great to see videos from the park that the "Weatherman" could never get negotiated from opening day. Not actually opening day but they seem to be ahead of schedule.

SDL was supposed to open in 2015. It is now May 2016. It's safe to say they are a tad behind schedule. We have also only seen POV ride's thru's for a handful of attractions and a video I was watching the other day of people walking around the park showed quite a few attractions and buildings void of patrons meaning they aren't ready yet.

And Star Wars Land, "the land that would not happen until 2021 at the earliest" is picking up speed as Walt's plane has been safely removed.

So the backlot tour closed in 2014 and all they have to show for it is dismantling catastrophe canyon and Walt's plane is gone? Streets of America has been closed a month and all they have done is removed some lights? Did I miss anything? They are moving at a snails pace.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
So the backlot tour closed in 2014 and all they have to show for it is dismantling catastrophe canyon and Walt's plane is gone? Streets of America has been closed a month and all they have done is removed some lights? Did I miss anything? They are moving at a snails pace.
He'll probably come at you with something like "Disney's amazingly magical and always perfect work takes time!!!" Meanwhile we can list several other attraction closures where work on their demo and replacement started almost immediately.
 

SpaceMountain77

Well-Known Member
Contrast that with the corpses of EPCOT and The Disney-MGM Studios. How and why people go to these parks, beyond having park-hopping ability just astounds me. Completely. I don't understand and I love to observe and people watch. But what do you do there? There are no attractions.

We were at WDW last week and I went to EPCOT for the Behind the Seeds tour at The Land. I have a Ph.D. in Psychology and try to follow the published research that comes out of DAK and EPCOT. If anyone is interested, quick PsycINFO and JSTOR searches will reveal articles here and there in agriculture and animal science.

Recently, I learned of grant money that Disney has been receiving from the USDA. I paid for the tour so that I could find out more about the grant (e.g., what was funded, personnel, dissemination, etc.). I also took the time to visit the museum galleries.

My research centers on community-based learning and, specifically, learning experiences in aquariums, museums, and zoos. I visit because I am curious about their remaining efforts and often wonder if my experiences align with their needs.
 

No Name

Well-Known Member
Really? Sounds to me like a classic "I'm gonna bring the big bad Spirit down and prove he is an ordinary fanboi with delusions of grandeur like many here" deal.

I am not digging out of anything. When I am wrong, I admit it and move on. That is what professional adults do.

You have no basis for backing up the point that 50% of the final paint treatments for SDL will be ready for Opening Day beyond looking at pics from the Tweeter and extrapolating (are you an expert on painting themed facilities? do you know what the final version of these facilities should look like? Nah? Didn't think so.)

BTW, what is the deal with that cute twink Daykota who seemingly is being paid by Disney to shill for SDL on the Tweeter 28 hours a day? Where did he come from? What is his tale?

You have nothing to offer except your opinions. Pirates apparently (because I won't view videos of things I intend to experience later this year) is the home run that was hoped for and I sorta expected. It was the only E-Ticket that didn't have its budget gutted and that didn't have major build issues. It will be the signature attraction for SDL (something I predicted years ago here). Tron is not going to be all that. It had major budget cuts and looks kewler than it will be. The rapids ride should be quality, but has only one major show scene and is in a part of the world where winters are frigid. Soarin ... well, you can experience the same thing, just with a crappier queue, right here in the swamps starting on 6/17. That's it for major attractions. The roster is incredibly weak and only looks better than HKDL at opening.

I hope the park is pretty damn good. For what it has cost and the time and energy, I sure don't want a crappy park. Disney has plenty of them in FL right now.



Original internal opening was spring of 2015. Original announced opening was winter of last year. That was followed by spring of 2016. By the calendar they will make that final one by five days. Yes, they were oh soooo far behind schedule.



My information on Shanghai has been dead on accurate since I began posting on the subject. I really shouldn't dignify it, but I'd love to have a nice flame war going (maybe my 'premium' pals can join in!) on about just how accurate I have been.



Are you dimwitted? Slow? The reason has never changed. It was always Shanghai and NGE (others blamed everything from DLP to ESPN). Did I think it was more SDL percentage-wise? Yes. But you just aren't going to nail me on such a small issue. The bottom line is everything happening in the swamps is the result of billions being poured into Shanghai and Next Gen.



Tech issues and implementation of new facets keeps the costs going up, mixed with the total and utter failure of MM+ to increase revenues as projected and promised the BoD.



That much I agree with. But I'd go a step further as he is only doing Iger's bidding.



I don't mind being criticized at all. Hell, I don't mind being hated by morons in the fan community who don't even know what they are fans of and for. I do mind people misrepresenting my opinions, posts and statements.

Well... how to begin? First of all, thank you for reading and replying. I said I didn't mean to pick a fight, but of course that's how it erupted. One of my big flaws is that each of my posts is the length of an essay, so I appologize in advance.

No, I'm no expert on painting themed facilities. Look, to me it seems that more than 50% of the paint is ready. Maybe not. But everything looks good, no worse than the other parks, that's for sure. If you meant that some things got one or two coats instead of three, well then, I hope they keep touching it all up with new paint. And I also could not even begin to put this on the same level as HKDL opening day (or even present day). But whatever, we disagree. You are correct that most of this topic is nothing but opinion, so it's not worth arguing over.

I'm moreso sick and tired of #thanksshanghai and "oh, the cuts are because of blank." It's giving an excuse to something that doesn't deserve any justification. Did Disneyland become crap in the late 60s because WDW was being built? No. Did MK become crap when Disney spent 90% of their theme park profits on Epcot? No. But today, when the company has billions of dollars in the bank, their capex % of whatever (have no idea of the actual number, maybe @ParentsOf4 knows, but less than the majority of their history) is enough to suddenly warrant cuts? Why the excuse now? Thank you for at least partially agreeing with me there, but everyone else is still putting blame on project or situtation X rather than on the execs making the decisions.

I'm no fanboi, and I'm actually defending Disney less than everyone else!

I've also lost a bit of trust, in general, after the recent Star Wars Land shock. Bob Iger announced that SWL construction would begin in April, and a whole list of things in the back of the park was closed or had been scheduled to close in April for months. The evidence was clear, yet people still insisted that SWL was going in the stunt show area, only because their sources told them so. I was on that sinking ship for a while and only hopped off a bit before most people, so I'm not giving myself credit. I'm just saying that, while this kind of blindness isn't really your fault, in retrospect it's certainly made me say "hmmm" more often.

I'm just trying to use my head. My head obviously has no inside information of any sort, but certain things don't line up, and that's something I can recognize. Maybe you're right. Maybe in 10 years I'll be like "oh huh, he was on the spot, it all makes sense." And I'd love for that to be the case, I really would. I wouldn't mind being completely wrong, to know that your information and everything you said all lines up, and that our most outspoken member is still on course. I don't hate you at all, it's the opposite. The insults... they sting in that good kind of way.

I just, well, have my doubts. Doubts which I think are pretty valid. Hopefully you understand. And if you don't, lets at least move on from here.
 
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