A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hmmm. Sounds like someone's trying to dig themselves out of a hole. A Shanghai hole. Because it looks like more than 50% of the exterior paint will be ready on opening day. It looks like the park is a very quality one. Your comment about nothing else coming close to Pirates sounds like a classic cover-up/backtrack. The other rides may not come close to Pirates, but they're good, Pirates is just amazing. And with 14 rides, 3 shows, a parade, a stage show, a nighttime spectacular, multiple walk-through attractions, heck, a climbing course kind of thing, and more, I'd say the park is pretty damn good.

Really? Sounds to me like a classic "I'm gonna bring the big bad Spirit down and prove he is an ordinary fanboi with delusions of grandeur like many here" deal.

I am not digging out of anything. When I am wrong, I admit it and move on. That is what professional adults do.

You have no basis for backing up the point that 50% of the final paint treatments for SDL will be ready for Opening Day beyond looking at pics from the Tweeter and extrapolating (are you an expert on painting themed facilities? do you know what the final version of these facilities should look like? Nah? Didn't think so.)

BTW, what is the deal with that cute twink Daykota who seemingly is being paid by Disney to shill for SDL on the Tweeter 28 hours a day? Where did he come from? What is his tale?

You have nothing to offer except your opinions. Pirates apparently (because I won't view videos of things I intend to experience later this year) is the home run that was hoped for and I sorta expected. It was the only E-Ticket that didn't have its budget gutted and that didn't have major build issues. It will be the signature attraction for SDL (something I predicted years ago here). Tron is not going to be all that. It had major budget cuts and looks kewler than it will be. The rapids ride should be quality, but has only one major show scene and is in a part of the world where winters are frigid. Soarin ... well, you can experience the same thing, just with a crappier queue, right here in the swamps starting on 6/17. That's it for major attractions. The roster is incredibly weak and only looks better than HKDL at opening.

I hope the park is pretty damn good. For what it has cost and the time and energy, I sure don't want a crappy park. Disney has plenty of them in FL right now.

From the loads of videos and pictures we've seen, the park could open for real today, and there is still a month left before that June 16th official opening date. But I thought they were oh soooo far behind schedule... hmmm.

Original internal opening was spring of 2015. Original announced opening was winter of last year. That was followed by spring of 2016. By the calendar they will make that final one by five days. Yes, they were oh soooo far behind schedule.

Is that part of Chappie's big lie? The lie that was supposed to (and did) cover up for his cuts. SDL's situation is clearly not as you painted it to be, so something must be up. I think your source, or you, or both, are being completely duped by the man himself.

My information on Shanghai has been dead on accurate since I began posting on the subject. I really shouldn't dignify it, but I'd love to have a nice flame war going (maybe my 'premium' pals can join in!) on about just how accurate I have been.

Oh! So now SDL has been basically revealed, looks fabulous, and suddenly the reason for the cuts has changed? Coincidence? Before, you insisted that it was Shanghai. Now it is NGE. Why the change? Once again, something must be up. Maybe Chappie realizes that his SDL story aint gonna work anymore. Or maybe this is you digging out of that hole.

Are you dimwitted? Slow? The reason has never changed. It was always Shanghai and NGE (others blamed everything from DLP to ESPN). Did I think it was more SDL percentage-wise? Yes. But you just aren't going to nail me on such a small issue. The bottom line is everything happening in the swamps is the result of billions being poured into Shanghai and Next Gen.

And why NGE? LOL. The bulk of that spending happened a year or two or more ago. I don't have their checkbook with me, but I can't see any MyMagic+ stuff suddenly causing a big dent in the budget now.

Tech issues and implementation of new facets keeps the costs going up, mixed with the total and utter failure of MM+ to increase revenues as projected and promised the BoD.

Either way, lets look at this with our own minds. Why don't we all stop blaming the cuts on other events, and put the blame where it really lies, in Chappie's hands. Chappie is the one making these cuts. He doesn't have to be, but he is. And it really doesn't matter why.

That much I agree with. But I'd go a step further as he is only doing Iger's bidding.

Well, exciting rumor, I should say. I've never had more trouble believing you. Lots of things just don't add up. You were pretty wrong on the condition of Shanghai. And you're now changing course on the reason for the cuts. I just hope you're not wrong on this part.

I don't mean to pick a fight. I love reading your posts for what they are. But I just had to point all this out. Sorry for digging your hole even deeper.

I don't mind being criticized at all. Hell, I don't mind being hated by morons in the fan community who don't even know what they are fans of and for. I do mind people misrepresenting my opinions, posts and statements.
 

ProfSavage

Well-Known Member
No. That isn't what I am saying.

What I am saying is WDW was and remains a very troubled place and it is incredibly sad to see how far the place has fallen from its first 25-30 years to now.

To be clear, I firmly believe that WDW has never been worse than it is right now overall.

Small things are absolutely better and improving. But as a whole? Never been worse.

I know, I was just being facetious. My new favorite hashtag is #EverythingIsAwful. But I see what you're saying, and from you and others have reported (I haven't visited the property in 10 years) I believe it.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I can't even. About everything posted, but especially this.

I thought I had thoroughly convinced myself of how ugly the end would be, but this management team continues to astound me with the ways they are going to kill the golden goose. When it breaks, the amount of meaningful investment that will be required to repair the damage...I don't see how a third party would even want to touch Disney theme parks. Maybe, Disneyland based on historical importance and being a much smaller property. Which means WDW will sputter around like Six Flags becoming increasingly irrelevant.

I wonder myself what will happen. WDW is getting investment, but is it far too little, far too late? The next major addition, Pandora, was announced in fall of 2011 and will open in fall of 2017. Disney is very purposely not giving dates for either the Toy Story or Star Wars additions to the Studios or what Phase III is and when it will be done and when the rebranding of the park will happen.

But right now, WDW still prints money. That makes me almost want to puke, but it is true. It has turned little Winter Haven immigrant pharmacist's son, Georgie K, into an eight figure millionaire.

Things will continue down the current path until at least 2019 with Iger not leaving for another 25 months. I don't see the parks being sold off. Maybe an equity investor (akin to what VIA is attempting with Paramount Pictures) to come in. Dunno ... The selling P&R deal was first floated in 2007 by The Weatherman because ...well ... because he has no interest, love or passion for the business. He is all about IP and tech. That has never changed.

It won't happen tomorrow, but the amount of families willing to drop $5K into a vacation experience that has them standing in inefficient lines, and opening their wallet at every turn is a finite resource. Especially, as families continue to get squeezed from three sides (their children's education/child care, their own retirement, as well as their parents.)

But my question is, with some attendance slowdown showing up in this quarter's results, how will we know how bad things are? As PhotoDave pointed out, and I've suspected for quite awhile, line length /= crowd level. So it's not like the parks are going to feel less crowded. How many quarters will "modest decline" = "serious problem" even if there is a positive quarter here and there.

I don't know. I do know that people seem to have lost all tolerance for crowds and lines, likely having to do with how much they are paying. When a day at EPCOT cost $56 I think waiting in line for an hour didn't drive most people nuts. When people are blowing eight grand in a week? Different story.

But I absolutely didn't notice any parks (WDW or UNI) approaching what I would even consider being moderately crowded. MK was, obviously, the busiest. But still I never saw waits much longer than 20-45 minutes for headliners at busy times ... and often they were wrong (like Space Mtn posting 30 minutes when it was more like 5-10).

My first day up there was Sunday, May 2nd and I was at EPCOT. Was shocked by the lack of crowds even with all the Spring Food and Wine Fest booths set up and two headliner attractions (Soarin and Maelstrom) closed. It just was not busy at all. My guess is it would have felt like May 1996 if you had gone and removed all that clutter around the lagoon.

This summer will be telling somewhat because Disney has new product (to some extent) in all its parks (as does UNI and SW). If summer is down, then I think the serious underlying problems will finally be showing themselves.

BTW, can't help but notice as a Floridian that UNI is advertising all the time and has been all spring. There is nothing from Disney at all on TV or radio. Just some billboards making it seem like DHS is an entirely new Star Wars park. And some for Disney Springs.

In other news, I recently returned from a fabulous 12 days in Hawaii, well, up until the head/chest cold kicked in. Hawaii has a reputation of being expensive. And it is, but I know I ate far better food at the same price as at WDW, and I know I came home with quality souvenirs at the same or cheaper price as WDW. So next up, well, actually visiting my Dad which means, WDW for the 45th, whether they celebrate it or not, but after that London and then hopefully Japan in 2017. And my husband shared this link with me http://www.travelchannel.com/intere...e-overwater-bungalows-you-can-actually-afford

I am soooo jealous. I haven't been to the islands in years. Planning on going in 2018, but would like to go tonight!

I know people don't like it, but I have to ask why people insist on giving Disney their $$$ in FL. I don't get it at all.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I definitely noticed the lack of cool A/C when I visited 2 weeks ago. Most indoor places seemed to be at least 80 degrees, but hey, we saw our name on IASW, so that makes up for EVERYTHING!

It's like putting $2,000 wheels on a 30 year old car....the oil leaks, the a/c is bad, the paint is chipping, but OOOH, SHINY!!

Well I can see putting 2000 wheels on a 30 year old car, IF the rest of the car has been rebuilt maintained to that standard (Like a Fantom Works project car) unfortunately Disney is not a Fantom Works restoration of a muscle car, it's a 30 year old Yugo these days.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I would figure that after over 24 years of good and loyal service, Gadget is reaching the end of its service life. Placing Frozen would move that plot of land from a 480 pph attraction to a 2000+ pph Frozen ride if they use the trackless ride system. Not a bad trade!

The one Vekoma Roller Skater I see surviving is the Nuthouse Coaster at USF. Over on another forum, I was laughed at for daring to suggest they would retheme it and add a second train to it for Nintendo, but why not? They already showed they don't mind placing family coasters in Hogswart at both USJ and USH, so why not add the transfer track and second train for Nuthouse Coaster and spend some of that budget elsewhere?

Just had to comment that I rode the kiddie coaster at UNI for the first time in my life last week. Not sure why I had never done it.
Oh, and spent some quality time with our mutual friend! :)
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
While I wish I had insider credentials, I don't. I have my own pocketbook. I have lost my Disney Magic in a big way. I have sold both my vacation homes in the carribean because after 26 visits, I'm sick of that too, in addition to my position in DIS. I need to find a new vacation venue. DVC didn't make the cut. With the world the way it is, I am at a loss. As a theme park fan, I'm now worried about Tokyo (a plan for 2017) I also think Orlando in 201 will involve Pandora and US/IOA and Seaworld. At least the hubby likes roller coasters

I will never go to Shanghai, which I am sure their government prefers. National parks two years in a row is not helping my theme park fixation. I think Tokyo is an option so far. Sigh....I am losing the vacation battle due to the decisions of DIS the corporation.


Have you possibly considered maybe visiting some of the famous theme parks over in Europe?
Efteling, Trivoli Gardens, Europa Park...just a few suggestions.

A realize not everyone is able or keen on traveling the distance, but it would certainly give you the adventure and change out of the norm you seek.

:)

-
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Just reading all of this is absolutely terrifying

Ive lived a large amount of my life around DC. I lived in NoVa when that beltway sniper happened.

From my experiences.... you can't be afraid of the "what ifs." All you end up is afraid of fear itself. (Sorry Churchill)

Its like worrying the sun will explode or a satelite/meteor will crash from the sky. Cant worry about that stuff....
 

ProfSavage

Well-Known Member
Ive lived a large amount of my life around DC. I lived in NoVa when that beltway sniper happened.

From my experiences.... you can't be afraid of the "what ifs." All you end up is afraid of fear itself. (Sorry Churchill)

Its like worrying the sun will explode or a satelite/meteor will crash from the sky. Cant worry about that stuff....

I thought that was FDR? Either way, fear is the mindkiller.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Hey @rybarr87 props for the Bene Gesserit litany against fear.

dune.jpg
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
@WDW1974 Any new rumors on Disneyland Paris besides the refurbishments?

Not really. Besides, the fact Vapiano (my favorite chain Italian in Germany -- although there is one in Miami) is coming to Disney Village there really isn't much newsworthy beyond the fact the park and resort is continuing its massive rebuilding/rehabbing project as we are now 11 months away from the 25th Anniversary.

Marvel will be coming to WDSP (in place of original plans for Avatar) down the road ... but that is likely 4-5 years away.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just as @WDW1974 ventured into the Kingdom for the first time in awhile, my wife and I took our youngest to the Magic Kingdom, which we hadn't visited since June 2011. To put it in perspective, I went as a child on vacation to WDW annually from New England and when my wife and I lived in Orlando, my goodness, we burned holes through those annual passes. Here's some of our observations and they're probably what you've noticed as well:

To start on a positive note, we found the Cast Members to be downright pleasant everywhere we went, which was a huge improvement over our prior several visits (and dropping by Downtown Disney over the past few years). They were helpful, very nice, and really great with our little guy. It was the first time in ages that we didn't see Cast Members chatting about things on-stage with other Cast Members, which had/has become a huge problem over there. I also noticed that operations and legal seemed to give them some latitude because if there was stupid behavior or someone not listening during a safety spiel, they flat-out called them out. It was a pleasant surprise.

Selfies have become a disease. It was deplorable. It doesn't matter where on the globe the visitor was from, it was insane whether at the MK or UNI. Parents desperate to be their children's friends taking selfie one after another throughout entire rides were maddening. People taking pictures of themselves literally in every nook and cranny, yet barely taking pictures of what they came to see (I assume themselves at this point) or paying attention to anything. Spend a day at the Magic Kingdom and it's a perfect microcosm for what has gone south. Now, for the main event, what our money sucking DISNEY (R) Company has done. (Let's just ditch "The Walt" out of the company name because we're way beyond that point today...")

Since we were going to have our six year old going around the MK from opening to late in the night, we figured why not take the tram to start the day? He thought it looked cool and since he was going to use his legs all day (unlike some children upwards of 10 in strollers.. ugh), we figured, cool. We boarded the tram and the gray paint was filthy nearly everywhere. Not a surprise. The Cast Member doing the spiel was really enthusiastic and did a good job. It reminded me of the old days.

We took one of the ferries over from the Ticket and Transportation Center and right away, the declining degrees were apparent: It was filthy. Dirt on the light bulbs, worn off paint, filthy floors, you name it. We entered the park with the superficial security and were thinking about if this is the security "show" that they are putting on for the masses, what must be going on that we don't see? Orange County and Disney K9 vehicles were very noticeable right from the get-go. The security screeners were very kind and I was pleased that they at least made a process that when it's busy is going to be downright exhausting, pleasant. Interestingly enough, we found that the metal detectors at the MK were not nearly as sensitive as the one coming from Loews Resorts at UNI where we stayed.

There was no shortage observations, so let me just stick to some of the highlights. :) We found trash to be all over the place. My wife would mention that we would go back to the same area quite a good time later and the same trash was still there. The cleaning crew cuts are incredibly noticeable today along with the fact that people are nothing short of being classless slobs. On the Haunted Mansion, when boarding the Doom Buggies, to the right of the vehicles, there were countless water bottles, wrappers. and junk that people had tossed aside.

The Aladdin spinner looked way better than last time as the paint had been peeling all over it, but the little things like paint chipped in the queue, worn off the pathways, that was very apparent. Show areas of the Jungle Cruise where there are rocks as ground coverage had weeds all over the place, but I'm sure that's now rationalized as it simply looks natural. Splash Mountain looked way better than the last time and all the show scenes looked to be in good shape. I was really pleased. Just as @WDW1974 stated, short lines to be had on many attractions. 5 mins in the morning and 5 mins at night to get on Splash.

It's time to go down the rabbit hole and hopefully get through to some of the pixie dusters. Marquee attractions like It's a Small World and the Haunted Mansion were downright disasters. Before this era, these rides would not be in operation because their working conditions were so deplorable. The first time in the Haunted Mansion, we had audio issues in the stretching room to the left, they had an area where they had a piece of the wallpaper cut out and replaced, which was amazingly apparent, when the room was fully stretched out, the top of the wallpaper above was ripped, blackened, a mess. In the other stretching room, the audio was upgraded and apparent, but so was one of the stretching room picture frames that was warped and bowed out. It was unreal. The scrims throughout the graveyard scene were filthy. Not to be outdone was It's a Small World, which was probably the worst looking show that we've seen in almost 35 years of visiting WDW.

It's a Small World, go through the queue and be welcomed by the clock tower that is filthy. The numbers with brown dirt and dust caked on them. As for the attraction itself, there were so many show elements that were down that I lost track. Black walls that had huge white streaks running down them. The final scene won hands down as the we had clowns in balloons frozen in time, lights off in several scenes, burnt out light bulbs, and even one step better than burnt out lightbulbs, places where they had simply removed them and hadn't replaced them. Top it all off with the narcissistic or caste system setup with the names of certain guests at the end. The Space Mountain building was dirty and rusty all over the place. You could see areas of the support beams on the side where they let the paint peel and then covered it with a thin layer of paint where it becomes very apparent of the different layers of paint being applied.

When exiting the Peoplemover, there was dust and dirt caked at the end of the Goodyear walkway. They can't even simply clean the place any longer? $112 to get in the place, they can manage to not have giant dustballs. 50's show scene father in the Carousel of Progress has the movement of someone with a neuromuscular disorder. Buzz Lightyear's "Z" targets were worn down, I could go on. It all looks tired.

After long days at our company, my wife and I would visit twice a week one of the parks and have dinner. When we would go to Epcot, a meal at The Electric Umbrella for two orders of chicken fingers and two beverages ran a tab of $17 with tax. This was from the late 90's until the mid-00's. We ate with our son at Cosmic Rays and for $50.18 we had two veggie burgers with fries, three beverages, and a salad with grilled chicken. Dole Whip at $4.19 a cup. Price points on merchandise that are so overinflated, it was something.

I couldn't help but think of the families there that went because of that marketed obligation to visit WDW and how they paid for their trip. The costs are astonishingly high and how much debt are many of these guests racking up just to pay for the basics of the vacation? Most families staying on-property, paying the exorbitant prices for lousy food, and kitsch in the shops simply don't have it. For many of us that can swing the cost, we aren't interested in doing so as at this point, it's fiscally foolish and I can't get past how much less you're getting while paying so much more. Queues that now take twice the time because of the FastPass+ disaster. Omnimovers like The Little Mermaid moved at a snails pace because of the alternating loads of the standby and FastPass.

Lastly, when leaving, we must have hit the Monorail jackpot because our train had been full refurbished inside and was the best that it had looked in years.... and it didn't smell!

For those of you that are new or newer to WDW, you honestly don't have any idea as to how far the product has fallen. They wrote the book on quality, care, and being superior. They now fail on nearly every account. I was glad to visit attractions that we haven't been on in several years and used to on a regular basis, but after that full day at the MK, there isn't a desire to go back unless they get their act together. The next Disney theme park that we'll do is overseas. It's all a far cry from being a child that was so inspired by EPCOT Center.

Great post. I really am sorry I didn't know you were around. I would have actually bought a round or two!

Not much to add beyond I think I had grumpier CMs than you did. One bothered me enough at DAK to merit a complaint. Never rode Splash Mountain, which is bothering me now, so I can't comment on that. Skipper Logan on Jungle Cruise was fantastic, even when going off script.

But show quality across the board is abysmal. I don't get how ignorant most fans who praise the place must be to not see simple things (and Small World most definitely is a great MK example of that ... Space Mtn and Buzz and CoP round out a ghetto Tomorrowland).

Those parking lot trams? Oy vey. I try and never need one, but I did Saturday night at MK and ... just sad.

Mansion always has crap tossed on the side of the Buggies and they just leave it until closing. One time the CM started the show before the doors had closed totally blowing the illusion. You wonder if she even had/has a clue.

Restrooms were dirty and often had no water coming out of faucets or a trickle.

Hub sorta looks nice. Until you get close up. No trees. No shade. No cohesive art direction. ... But, hey, that FP viewing area will now be used for more rubes paying for cupcake parties.

Apparently, the SDMT has already decided the wicked queen can't cackle at the end. Not sure if she's broken or if the mommy of a special needs child complained.

Only attraction that was noticeably better was Pirates, which was a poopie show last fall. Looked quite good now.

Those are just a few MK observations ...
 

Thanks phoenicians

Well-Known Member
Not really. Besides, the fact Vapiano (my favorite chain Italian in Germany -- although there is one in Miami) is coming to Disney Village there really isn't much newsworthy beyond the fact the park and resort is continuing its massive rebuilding/rehabbing project as we are now 11 months away from the 25th Anniversary.

Marvel will be coming to WDSP (in place of original plans for Avatar) down the road ... but that is likely 4-5 years away.
I know at one point there was a rumor for tsmm but I'm assuming that's not happening anymore
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I've read Europa is about to get their own Soarin' style ride. Mack is churning out new ride concepts left and right this days. Their ride system for Arthur would be Ideal for Peter Pan style rides.

We have been planning a month in Europe for 2018 and so far Europa Park, Efteling, Phantasialand and Puy du Fou are the only parks planned. No DLP at this point

I would do DLP in 2018 in a heartbeat. Much of the place will look brand new. ... I am headed to Phantasialand for the first time later this year. And I love EP, absolutely love it.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How do you get Cabana Bay for $50?! Granted, I'm OK with the price I'm paying for my November trip (staggeringly cheaper than the Disney leg of my trip; I've since added two more days to the Uni end because of it! At the end of the day, it's about $110 a night) but $50 sounds great. Do you have any recommendations for accommodations there? Do you have a preferred building or floor? (It'll be my first trip to Universal. I'm upping from 4 days to 6 because it's basically a $150-200 difference and why not?)

Got a TM rate thanks to a good friend. A suite that sleeps six for $50 a night is ... a great way to visit O-Town. I had a CM rate at ASMu that was actually decent ($67.20 a night including tax), but that was for a standard room. And there is no comparing the two. To do so would be insulting to Loews and UNI. Cabana Bay is a top notch product. Great pool area, including lazy river and jacuzzi. Great pool bar and grill. Reasonable prices on quality food at food court. Starbucks in lobby. Bowling alley.

Just no way to compare the 'value' product at Disney and UNI. Disney isn't even in the same UNIverse.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Not to try and speed up the natural flow of the discussion but what were your thoughts on Universal and Cabana Bay @WDW1974 ? I'd love to get your thoughts on the contrasts between WDW and Uni from your trip.

I think I've put some out already and need to run off for the evening shortly ... but if you have specific questions I'll be glad to try to answer them.

The quick version is UNI deserves the money in O-Town and Disney absolutely does not. (And before my haters, love ya Jake, get on me here let me state that I barely spent money on Disney at all. A pittance is all they got from me ... and that doesn't include the Coke I stole or the bars of soap from the housekeepers carts!
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
What a sad, amazing and honest post.

The truth does indeed hurt.

Especially the part about the HM and IASW, which both have extensive refurbs (9 and 18 month respectively, if I recall) within the past ten years and were in absolutely pristine condition. This is nothing more than terrible neglect.

The other part that really spoke to me was about food prices. I never used to have an issue with them, I'm from the North East and food is expensive up here. $8 or $9 for a fast food burger and a decent order of fries wasn't outrageous to me. When it's $13+, and it's gone up so quickly for less food (1/2 the fries and mostly no topping bars), it's embarrassing for them. (Before anyone chimes in about sports stadiums, yes, those are ridiculous too - but you are only there a few hours, whereas people that stay on site are stuck eating 3x a day at these ridiculous prices.)
 

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