A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[Piebald]

What happened to Lee? And I remember Corrus back in the day (I think I've been on here longer than some posters have been alive)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Don't forget @PhotoDave219

Nothing quite so magical as telling people to kill themselves for posting a movie trailer.

 

[Mike S]

Nothing quite so magical as telling people to kill themselves for posting a movie trailer.

Wasn’t it over Episode VII?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wasn’t it over Episode VII?

I honestly don’t recall. Trailers were just one of the notable, benign, normal activities that would set off an abusive tirade.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

What happened to Lee? And I remember Corrus back in the day (I think I've been on here longer than some posters have been alive)

Lee posted some info about Jim Hill, that he had a criminal record about, from memory, domestic violence in the mid 90's. Others thought it a bit unessecary to try to harm somebody twenty years later. A heated debate ensued.

 

[Phil12]

I honestly don’t recall. Trailers were just one of the notable, benign, normal activities that would set off an abusive tirade.

Good times.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I honestly don’t recall. Trailers were just one of the notable, benign, normal activities that would set off an abusive tirade.

I thought Dave incredibly coarse and abusive. Probably posting drunk from his favourite hangout Hooters.

 

[alphac2005]

Interesting comments and I personally feel that they're spot on. Having been on the site for 20 years, I can say without question that some of the aforementioned named users brought some very interesting insight, but more than anything, plenty of negativity. The heart of the forums is @marni1971 with Martin's insight into the future and historical knowledge of the parks.

Sometimes I miss some of the past mentioned posters, but at the end of the day, the forum has overall become a lot more upbeat.

 

[Kman101]

sorry.. but he had the "best inside info" ever on these threads.. people state that they didn't like him.. and I don't know why.. with the exception of being told the truth... no ONE.. and I mean NO ONE HERE.. gave you the TRUE SKINNY of the inner workings at WDW. and we are all at a loss since he is gone..

Maybe it was often the nasty tone in which he laid things out. I appreciated his information too and sometimes he'd have a really good thread or some great posts. But he was snarky and dismissive. There are reasons some people had a problem with it. It felt attention seeking but I also still appreciated the information he gave. I actually think it's a bit of a shame he disappeared into oblivion and hasn't started a blog anywhere. I also feel a lot of posters piggy-backed off him and started spewing the same dismissive "fan boi" "pixie duster" ... which as you may or may not have noticed, has quieted down since he left. I know it sounds like I'm knocking him, but I'm just speaking the truth about how it really was. Some were too enamored by him and I get it.

 

[Kman101]

I still would like someone who espouses more on the parks like he did. He filled a void left by Al Lutz for me as others only provide small tidbits instead of larger stories.

But Al Lutz wasn't nasty or negative. I think Spirit could have accomplished a lot more instead of just ranting on here to us. I understand the void left and how some think he filled that, and at times he might have. At least the site that shall not be named is calling WDW and Disneyland out on their lack of maintenance. FINALLY someone is doing it. Why wasn't Spirit doing that? He seemed to come around to rile some folks up and toss in some nuggets of info.

 

[MisterPenguin]

When it comes to inside info, I want to know decisions made; not who are on the ins or outs and who's fighting with whom in the corporate structure.

Because we all know that when people relay office politics, it's always skewed to their point of view and, thus, not totally trustworthy. IOW, the source of internal politics is too often not a reliable reporter even if their take is relayed accurately to us.

And so, I value the loss of office gossip as not much of a loss.

 

[NoChesterHester]

When it comes to inside info, I want to know decisions made; not who are on the ins or outs and who's fighting with whom in the corporate structure.

Because we all know that when people relay office politics, it's always skewed to their point of view and, thus, not totally trustworthy. IOW, the source of internal politics is too often not a reliable reporter even if their take is relayed accurately to us.

And so, I value the loss of office gossip as not much of a loss.

Worth noting that there was a lot of narrative during the Spirit posting era that there was ZERO talent left at WDI and that they were incapable of rising to the challenge again to lead the industry. Pandora was going to be a disaster. It was narrative, not truth.

 

[Kman101]

Worth noting that there was a lot of narrative during the Spirit posting era that there was ZERO talent left at WDI and that they were incapable of rising to the challenge again to lead the industry. Pandora was going to be a disaster. It was narrative, not truth.

Yep, he definitely had his own narrative at times. That's called "wishful thinking because I don't agree with this" ...

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Lee posted some info about Jim Hill, that he had a criminal record about, from memory, domestic violence in the mid 90's. Others thought it a bit unessecary to try to harm somebody twenty years later. A heated debate ensued.

First degree battery was only mentioned because it happened to be included in the entire Orange County Jail document on Jim Hill's criminal record. The crime that was relevant to the conversation was theft. Jim had been a repeat offender for shoplifting merchandise from a gift shop inside Disney World. And he was banned from Disney property for a good while (don't know how long).

Lee brought this up because Disney lifted this ban and started to form a relationship with Jim. Jim is now a famous Disney blogger (or was, dunno if he's as well known today as a few years ago). I gather he's been mentioned in some of their official media, he gives tours and has been invited to many events including D23. Among other things.

Now it's not news that Disney has a rather large amount of amateur pro-Disney people working social media for their benefit. There's a lot of controversy around these non-employee employees however. They generally don't disclose that Disney is effectively bribing them with gifts for positive press. I've also witnessed some become hostile towards people who aren't mindlessly devoted to everything Disney does. Robb Alvey is an example. I don't know what he's up to nowadays, but back a couple of years ago he became notorious for getting into fights on Twitter or his own forums. If someone didn't like a ride he was praising, he'd call them names and ban them. It's unhealthy behavior, often resembling a drug addict/dealer situation. But Disney encourages and rewards it...

I think Lee felt Jim Hill's relationship in particular felt even more sinister and gross than the others. Almost like extortion, Disney being willing to forgive and even reward his theft as long as he plays nice and does what they tell him.

Someone had a great post in that thread about the relationship between Disney and their army of amateur bloggers-

the problem with "social media influencers" is they're inherently for sale. most don't disclose the perks the get (something journalists do), and don't necessarily see themselves bound to the same code of ethics journalists are. now, when you're a consumer who pays attention to the product closely and can cut through the bull, who cares, right? except the more prevalent and prominent social media brand advocates become, the less disney has to interact with the real media. and that allows them to pawn off an inferior product, or cover up stories with big real world implications, etc.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I follow a bunch of v/bloggers and they always mention when they're paying out of their own pocket or are being comped. Some won't even do a review if comped, they'll just document their experience and then do a review after they've paid for it.

Yes, that's anecdotal. But so is the claim there are lots of v/bloggers secretly "on the take." Is that just like the patently absurd claim that an event with thousands of participants is 'filled with bloggers'?

IOW, I'd need to see some sort of proof that these freeloading pixie dusters exist, and it'll need to be more than just pointing out two of them.

 

[jt04]

Remember how he chose his current avatar to make light of the boy who was killed by the alligator at GF?

I think that is what sealed the spirit's fate around here.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I don't think WDI is completely devoid of talent, but I definitely think a TON of talent has left or been fired over the years. And corporate interference sure as hell makes it hard for whoever is left to work their magic.

Very little of what Disney has done recently has impressed me. Cars Land is fantastic, Radiator Springs Racers is as well. And I love the environment of Pandora. I do really like the boat ride, but it's criminally short and does contain the flaws others have criticized it for (still like it but yeah I wish there was a lot more of it). I wasn't impressed by the simulator.

New Fantasyland was a complete mess. Little Mermaid is bland at best, arguably bad. 7DMT is kind of fun but short and has some severe flaws (especially its state after dark). Circus area is a waste, and the new Dumbo location has poor views now compared to before. Gutting and replacing the classic Snow White ride with a meet n greet. And whoever designed the scenery was really bad at forced perspective effects.

Didn't like the Frozen ride (even had it been built in an appropriate area, the scenes are mostly lame). Don't like Paris' Ratatouille, so I don't expect to enjoy Epcot's. Highly dislike Epcot's overall direction.

I'm mixed on Star Wars. The land should look pretty at least. I'm not interested in the Falcon ride, tired of simulators and screen based scenery. Hopefully Resistance delivers, though again i'm worried the environments will feel sparse and lacking physical scenery or animatronics. No interest whatsoever in Mickey based on what i've seen so far.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And whoever designed the scenery was really bad at forced perspective effects.

Forced perspective industry wide seems to have somehow fallen into this complete misunderstanding that it is nothing more than things being smaller.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Forced perspective industry wide seems to have somehow fallen into this complete misunderstanding that it is nothing more than things being smaller.

I think there are still some very high quality examples of forced perspective effects outside of New Fantasyland. Both by Disney and Universal. The two Harry Potter lands are extremely good IMO (for the most part). And I think the imagineers did a fantastic job with Cars Land and more recently Pandora. It's really the New Fantasyland content that gets to me. All of the mountains and buildings, and even the scenes inside of the Little Mermaid ride. Someone really messed up.

It does seem to be a dwindling talent compared to decades ago however. I have a theory that the examples of poor forced perspective effects are partially correlated with there being far fewer Disney animators who have a lot of experience in 2D animation. As well as people who know how to design elaborate physical sets for live action movies.

For the first several decades after the theme parks opened, Disney had already amassed an army of insanely talented and experienced artists who had proven their mastery with hand drawn animation. They also had people with experience designing physical sets from their live action movies. The animators had a good understanding of how to make 2-dimensional scenery and characters appear to have depth and dimensionality. They were also used to oversee and design the parks and their environments as well, and no doubt this experience paid off. Even looking at an ancient scene like the flight over London in Peter Pan's Flight (WDW version), its sense of scale hold up today.

3D animation is vastly different than 2D. I'm not saying CGI animation is "easy" to do either, far from it. But I think it's fair to say that CGI requires less knowledge and experience with forced perspective effects. Reason being that in a simulated computer environment, size and scale doesn't pose as much of a concern compared to a drawing. You can create areas and objects as large or far off as you want with relatively little limit. And over time, computers and software have also gotten infinitely faster and smarter. Lighting effects for instance can be auto generated by powerful computer hardware (though obviously artists will tweak this for stylistic purposes).

Theme parks have space limitations that a simulated CGI movie scene won't. So creating the illusion of size, space, distance and all the other elements involved in forced perspective effects can be a challenge for someone not accustomed to working within these sorts of limitations. Those who have experience in this field, such as classic 2D Disney animators and people who specialize in physical movie sets are going to be more adept at this sort of thing. At least this is my take on things.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

When it comes to inside info, I want to know decisions made; not who are on the ins or outs and who's fighting with whom in the corporate structure.

But...those decisions made are very much the result of that corporate infighting. It's how one comes to understand how and why TWDC makes certain decisions. For just the results, without any understanding of how they came to be, it suffices to read the Disney Parks Blog.