A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[jackmosby]

Sorry, I keep editing the posts as I go along. By the time you reply I've always likely added to or edited the ones you are replying to. Stylistically/climatically/geographically it would make more sense blended into another land on the edge of fantasyland, rather than interrupting a bunch of other north atlantic environments, and again, with its facade on a body of water rather than jutting off of a beach into a midway. The sequencing irks me. It all irks me, several irks, which I've dribbled out. Tomorrowland speedway should never be visible, lol. I think we can agree that it isn't the best thing to walk past from one immersive land to another. I think that raises a good point though. Not that the exact location is available anymore, but if the sub lagoon was still in operation, then eric's castle would work wonderfully. And even if the circus and eric's castle were swapped, that would do wonders, emphasizing the relationships between the castle courtyard/fair/circus, and further emphasizing the remoteness of eric's castle, its climatic differences, its lack of relationship to the medieval castle courtyard.

Cannot argue with that at all, I agree 100% that it would work better as a transition between Fantasyland and Adventureland (not that this is possible in the MK, of course). But that's the problem with WDI those days : they often forget to (or, most likely, Chapek don't let them) exploit the theme park medium anymore, how to tell a story visually and coherently.

 

[nevol]

WRT 'Value Engineering' it will be TDO that insists on 'value engineering' the rides and the land for the MCO version...

TDO already value engineered a third attraction out of SW:GE before construction started. A transportation attraction on the back of banthas. Anaheim wanted it, WDI begged for it, TDO shot it down.

 

[nevol]

Cannot argue with that at all, I agree 100% that it would work better as a transition between Fantasyland and Adventureland (not that this is possible in the MK, of course). But that's the problem with WDI those days : they often forget to (or, most likely, Chapek don't let them) exploit the theme park medium anymore, how to tell a story visually and coherently.

So sad. Was listening to the Sam Gennenway episodes on the Disney Dish podcast recently. Walking tour of the magic kingdom. So much amazing information revealing how deliberate every design decision was as it moved you through both space and time. I struggle to imagine that I would get the same level of thrill out of listening to Sam describe some of Disney's recent work while stuck in LA traffic. Rather than oohing and ahhing about the land fades from Adventureland to Frontierland, where the spanish/mission style architecture that appeared in both is placed in proximity to one another and the landscape of cacti is the clear evidence that we are no longer in the Caribbean, I imagine it being like "and here is where TDA got really desperate, because they were told there wasn't enough for familiies to do here, so as you step off of this path onto this one, you enter a bugs land, which satisfied the corporate synergy mandates and allowed them to recycle an attraction that was already developed for orlando. There were a ton of beautiful renderings and storyboards for lands and attractions that could have been here, but all of those people were fired for refusing to dumb down their ideas. Plus, the company just wanted to shed the expensive middle-aged guys with reasonable compensation packages and benefits to replace with younger talent on a contract-hire project basis." (faceplant into the steering wheel, 10-car pileup ensues) There is evidence that it can still be done, but there is no obligation to those principles, and it depends on the project, rendering moot even the best of new work, sadly.

 

[ford91exploder]

TDO already value engineered a third attraction out of SW:GE before construction started. A transportation attraction on the back of banthas. Anaheim wanted it, WDI begged for it, TDO shot it down.

Why am I NOT surprised. In the end TDO wants an X-wing spinner and a 'interactive' Falcon walk through (with gift shop at the exit)

As to the attraction you mention that would have been amazing. As for my dour view of Disney's future. Its repeated decisions like that one which guide it

That missing ride would have added atmosphere and more importantly increased the CAPACITY of the land by a third assuming each ride had approximately equal capacity

 

[nevol]

Why am I NOT surprised. In the end TDO wants an X-wing spinner and a 'interactive' Falcon walk through (with gift shop at the exit)

As to the attraction you mention that would have been amazing. As for my dour view of Disney's future. Its repeated decisions like that one which guide it

That missing ride would have added atmosphere and more importantly increased the CAPACITY of the land by a third assuming each ride had approximately equal capacity

And transportation attractions add kinetics. They also provide pleasure to more passersby than riders. How many people actually ride a horse-drawn streetcar on Main Street compared to those who might smile as they see one or take a picture of one, or subconsciously take note of the details as they inform the believably and excitement of the space? Micechat raised this story a year ago when discussing how the leadership of anaheim and orlando would become more autonomous, with anaheim now having more liberty to decide how much money to spend on its parks and on what. This was all before the best unbuilt WDI concepts were to be greenlit for DCA (a plan only delayed a year by eastern gateway) and sadly, too late still, as it happened just after the bantha decision was made. Bantha advocates were terrified that the land was soo sprawling, it needed some energy and it needed some connectivity between battle escape and falcon. Jim Hill echoed the bantha story but in a completely different narrative (not related to Anaheim or leadership structures) as one of a few projects in orlando plagued by handicap accessibility/loading/capacity/legal liability/reliability if I recall correctly. It would have given guets a birds eye view of the land, perhaps even headed up a hill (i'm kind of imagining an autonomous/trackless autopia track as I hear this) but I don't recall if he mentioned it being a transportation attraction with two stations or one with a single load/unload area that would make it more of a standalone third attraction. This wasn't some ginormous Indy mini-land with a mine train and EMV and Disneyland Railroad inside a cavern the size of Disneyland early blue-sky development, either. This almost made it across the finish line (and hopefully will surface in the future, once the lands are raking in cash and the lines are 400 minutes each).
https://i0.wp.com/media2.slashfilm.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/ZZ5611BC94.jpg

 

[lazyboy97o]

So I just found out today that an annual pass to Universal Orlando Resort renews automatically and you have to actually go into the site to choose not to renew. It wasn't until now that I noticed the payments for a pass I didn't want. Luckily it's only made two payments so far. Tomorrow morning whatever Passholder hotline they have will be getting an earful.

This is bull.

I’m sorry, but you’re the one who didn’t pay attention to the terms at sign-up, your renewal notices and your bank accounts. This is not something new to FlexPay.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I personally love the art direction of Fantasyland at the MK. And I find it shocking that so few "get" the theme. It perfectly explains the environmental mash ups and tiny castle. And I admire WDI for thinking a little bit outside the box.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

In the end TDO wants an X-wing spinner and a 'interactive' Falcon walk through (with gift shop at the exit)

Value engineering is already last decades Disney. Dwarf is around when it died.

Iger will invest any amount. The problem I fear more is a monetisation of SW land. A $39.99 lightsaber to make the windows interact (why Diagon Alley is rubbish), $69.99 saber for personalised effects. The restaurant keeps its cards in its sleeve except for paying visitors. There will be items and added experiences exclusive to the multi-day SW storyline for the $900 a night SW hotel guests.

Meanwhile the plebs, those who only paid $130 for their ticket, can walk around to glimpse at everything they can't afford - certainly not every trip, never mind every visit to DHS. They can console themselves with $8 blue milk.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Value engineering is already last decades Disney. Dwarf is around when it died.

Iger will invest any amount. The problem I fear more is a monetisation of SW land. A $39.99 lightsaber to make the windows interact (why Diagon Alley is rubbish), $69.99 saber for personalised effects. The restaurant keeps its cards in its sleeve except for paying visitors. There will be items and added experiences exclusive to the multi-day SW storyline for the $900 a night SW hotel guests.

Meanwhile the plebs, those who only paid $130 for their ticket, can walk around to glimpse at everything they can't afford - certainly not every trip, never mind every visit to DHS. They can console themselves with $8 blue milk.

Iger’s MO has been more towards inequality than value engineering. DHS is getting both the cheap, Six Flags level TSL and the uber themed SW:GE side by side. There is no consistently high standard of quality.

Don’t forget that Disney will likely charge guests to have guaranteed access to SW:GE!

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Value engineering is already last decades Disney. Dwarf is around when it died.

Iger will invest any amount. The problem I fear more is a monetisation of SW land. A $39.99 lightsaber to make the windows interact (why Diagon Alley is rubbish), $69.99 saber for personalised effects. The restaurant keeps its cards in its sleeve except for paying visitors. There will be items and added experiences exclusive to the multi-day SW storyline for the $900 a night SW hotel guests.

Meanwhile the plebs, those who only paid $130 for their ticket, can walk around to glimpse at everything they can't afford - certainly not every trip, never mind every visit to DHS. They can console themselves with $8 blue milk.

This "new" sense of "paid entitlement" is something I fear is getting very out of hand at the US Disney Parks.

I'm not naïve enough to say that there was never a modicum of this from the very beginning of Walt's fantasy playlands; but, there has been a significant uptick in the quantity of paying more to get more at the parks and more alarmingly - the visibility of it.

It's one thing to have a secret Club behind a hidden entrance for those that want to pay for it; but, it's an entirely different matter when you start seeing entire sections of the park carved up for VIP viewing, upcharge events, and special perks. The difference in my opinion is "seeing" it.

Club 33 or one of the EPCOT corporate hospitality venues were tantalizing because if you knew about it - there is an aura of mystery around it. The forbidden fruit factor at work. The unknown is always tempting.

Now, on a trip to Disneyland guests will find entire sections of the Hub roped off for VIPs and upcharge access. Over the course of the last several years, this has grown from a small section in the northern spoke to now wrapping around the entire front side. You see similar sections for Fantasmic and the parades. Of course the same holds true at WDW with more and more real estate and services withheld for those that pay for it.

For me at least, the alarming part is there is no veil of secrecy around this. Parks is taking the exact things that people want to do or see - and they are finding ways to monetize it. Instead of hiding it behind the curtain, they are now drawing attention to it (did you see the giant lanyards they gave to Disney After Hours guests - not very incognito). Instead of making every guest feel that they are special the moment they walk through the gate, they are creating fiefdoms of the "haves" and the "have nots". They want the average guest to see and know there is a way to get more at Disney Parks if you are willing to pay for it.

Are we at the breaking point yet where people will say enough is enough?

Unfortunately, I don't think so. For me at least, I recognize that Time is more valuable on my vacation than Money. If they continue to offer up good and services that give me ways to save time while I'm on vacation (like Disney After Hours or Fantasmic or World of Color dining) - I'll continue to take advantage of them. I just don't like how "in-your-face" it is to the guests. When FastPass gets monetized, I'm sure I'll feel guilty like I do when I'm at Universal blowing past everyone in standby while I'm deep down thanking them for not staying at a Universal Deluxe Resort.

Star Wars will unfortunately have some really cool stuff for those that want to pay for it.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Iger’s MO has been more towards inequality than value engineering. DHS is getting both the cheap, Six Flags level TSL and the uber themed SW:GE side by side. There is no consistently high standard of quality.

Don’t forget that Disney will likely charge guests to have guaranteed access to SW:GE!

It's a $125 prix fixe dinner where you get a 18 oz. Bone-In Kobe Rib-eye with a side of Tater Tots.

 

[Pixieish]

This "new" sense of "paid entitlement" is something I fear is getting very out of hand at the US Disney Parks.

I'm not naïve enough to say that there was never a modicum of this from the very beginning of Walt's fantasy playlands; but, there has been a significant uptick in the quantity of paying more to get more at the parks and more alarmingly - the visibility of it.

It's one thing to have a secret Club behind a hidden entrance for those that want to pay for it; but, it's an entirely different matter when you start seeing entire sections of the park carved up for VIP viewing, upcharge events, and special perks. The difference in my opinion is "seeing" it.

Club 33 or one of the EPCOT corporate hospitality venues were tantalizing because if you knew about it - there is an aura of mystery around it. The forbidden fruit factor at work. The unknown is always tempting.

Now, on a trip to Disneyland guests will find entire sections of the Hub roped off for VIPs and upcharge access. Over the course of the last several years, this has grown from a small section in the northern spoke to now wrapping around the entire front side. You see similar sections for Fantasmic and the parades. Of course the same holds true at WDW with more and more real estate and services withheld for those that pay for it.

For me at least, the alarming part is there is no veil of secrecy around this. Parks is taking the exact things that people want to do or see - and they are finding ways to monetize it. Instead of hiding it behind the curtain, they are now drawing attention to it (did you see the giant lanyards they gave to Disney After Hours guests - not very incognito). Instead of making every guest feel that they are special the moment they walk through the gate, they are creating fiefdoms of the "haves" and the "have nots". They want the average guest to see and know there is a way to get more at Disney Parks if you are willing to pay for it.

Are we at the breaking point yet where people will say enough is enough?

Unfortunately, I don't think so. For me at least, I recognize that Time is more valuable on my vacation than Money. If they continue to offer up good and services that give me ways to save time while I'm on vacation (like Disney After Hours or Fantasmic or World of Color dining) - I'll continue to take advantage of them. I just don't like how "in-your-face" it is to the guests. When FastPass gets monetized, I'm sure I'll feel guilty like I do when I'm at Universal blowing past everyone in standby while I'm deep down thanking them for not staying at a Universal Deluxe Resort.

Star Wars will unfortunately have some really cool stuff for those that want to pay for it.

THIS EXACTLY. And if Disney doesn't think even little kids will feel the difference, they're dead wrong. Kids deal with enough clique crap at school...they don't need to feel it on vacation, too.

 

[FullSailDan]

Apparently that's what happens with the monthly payments.

Not with Disney though.

I'm hoping to get a full refund.

Good luck with that. After having a pass for a year, the husband and I went maaaaaybe 3 times despite being 15-20 minutes away. We discovered the same, "must go in person" policy (which is absurd! what if we had been forced to move suddenly?) Made the cutoff for cancelling and then they still charged us for 2 or 3 months after. Raised all kinds of trouble with their customer service, no help, tried the social media shaming route and got a "Sorry, our system is automated" and never a refund. Finally had to call Visa and refuse any further charges from universal. Thankfully Visa refunded us but said since it was an automatic draft we technically didn't qualify for it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Am I the only person who hates Forbidden Journey? The land is great obviously but that's where the whole wizarding world project shines.

I've been on Forbidden Journey dozens of times and I've never liked it, never thought about it after the fact, the way I replay and desire to experience again HM, Indy, SM, Soarin, Pirates. Jurassic Park and Transformers are both, in my opinion, better attractions at USH than forbidden journey.

The sets are terrible. It is just an oversized haunted house with unrealistic halloween decor-looking animated figures, and they shove you right up against the walls 90% of the time to hide the rest of the ride system from you, while exposing their terrible production design quality in the process. The womping willow is one example, where you can see the top of the tree and the ceiling and the lack of success in the creation of this scene didn't lead the team to throw it out altogether, as it should have. The motion is terrible. The animation is terrible. the kuka arm does NOTHING to deliver the sensation of flight (it is a terrible simulator for screen-based ride sequences, and performs better I think with practical sets).

I think the arm and video (SCREENZ!!!) are fine. But I'm 100% with you on the laughable quality of the set pieces. But whenever I bring up how awful they are, this board generally jumps to its defense. I don't get it. Then again, I think most of the AAs in MK's PotC are laughably outdated. [Good AAs can be found in HoP, NRJ, the Wicked Witch in TGMR (R.I.P.), FEA; so... no excuse for bad ones.]

 

[disneygeek90]

Good luck with that. After having a pass for a year, the husband and I went maaaaaybe 3 times despite being 15-20 minutes away. We discovered the same, "must go in person" policy (which is absurd! what if we had been forced to move suddenly?) Made the cutoff for cancelling and then they still charged us for 2 or 3 months after. Raised all kinds of trouble with their customer service, no help, tried the social media shaming route and got a "Sorry, our system is automated" and never a refund. Finally had to call Visa and refuse any further charges from universal. Thankfully Visa refunded us but said since it was an automatic draft we technically didn't qualify for it.

Good to know. I'm doing the monthly pass now but don't know if I will keep past my 15 month offer. While I enjoy going, it's not something I feel I have to do overly often like Disney. Maybe an "every other year" type thing. But being 10 mins away it sometimes seems silly not to have one.

 

[matt9112]

That..was.. awful.. the animatronics and stuff were nice, but the backgrounds, phase and screens.. BAD.. x_x

thought it looked just fine....

 

[truecoat]

Meh...I'm not a Star Wars fan. It's okay, but I've never been into it like so many people are.

Give me a full scale USS Enterprise to command...then Youd see me crying tears of joy!

You came very close to getting your wish. The Fremont street hotels agreed to build this and then an idiot at Paramount decided to back out of the deal.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Season Pass Podcast has released another Tony Baxter episode, guest starring the amazing yet oft forgotten Tom Morris.

 

[pax_65]

This "new" sense of "paid entitlement" is something I fear is getting very out of hand at the US Disney Parks.

It's one thing to have a secret Club behind a hidden entrance for those that want to pay for it; but, it's an entirely different matter when you start seeing entire sections of the park carved up for VIP viewing, upcharge events, and special perks. The difference in my opinion is "seeing" it.

I totally agree... and it really changes the whole feeling for me. And it doesn't really matter which side of the rope you're standing on (except that the view and food is better )... there is a visible separation that wasn't there before. Once we were all guests coming together for a good time - coming from the Grand Floridian or the Motel 6 on 192, we were standing together having a shared experience.

Now we are separated, we are having different experiences. And no matter where you stand, you constantly feel like your experience could be even better if you swipe your Magic Band just one more time. It's exhausting.

As you pointed out, a WDW vacation has never been cheap... and you could always pay more for a better experience. But once you were there, it wasn't really about money for the average guest. It was about something more, and everyone shared in that. No longer.

 

[Princess Leia]

No, sadly I see the new half dozen pages don't have much to say ... but at least we aren't talking about when the new HoP show will debut here (does that constitute political discussion, which is only acceptable down on the 'crazies board'?)

Is that even still scheduled to open this year? I’m going with friends in late November, and one of my friends wants to go in and boo. Personally, i’d rather just hit Haunted Mansion and Muppets and then stay out of Liberty Square.