A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
Am I the only person who hates Forbidden Journey? The land is great obviously but that's where the whole wizarding world project shines.

I've been on Forbidden Journey dozens of times and I've never liked it, never thought about it after the fact, the way I replay and desire to experience again HM, Indy, SM, Soarin, Pirates. Jurassic Park and Transformers are both, in my opinion, better attractions at USH than forbidden journey.

The sets are terrible. It is just an oversized haunted house with unrealistic halloween decor-looking animated figures, and they shove you right up against the walls 90% of the time to hide the rest of the ride system from you, while exposing their terrible production design quality in the process. The womping willow is one example, where you can see the top of the tree and the ceiling and the lack of success in the creation of this scene didn't lead the team to throw it out altogether, as it should have. The motion is terrible. The animation is terrible. the kuka arm does NOTHING to deliver the sensation of flight (it is a terrible simulator for screen-based ride sequences, and performs better I think with practical sets). The think just jerks around in ways that match up with messy, unrealistic motion paths on the screens. You can see the edges of the domes, the images curve in the dome and it doesn't produce a 3d effect in doing so. "Theyre flying!" is one of the first lines in the ride, and there is such excitement in the voice. I should feel elated that I'm flying. Instead, I am 3 seconds away from a migraine from the crappy green wormhole and being jerked around in a practical set a fraction as interesting as the queue. They literally took the biggest human aspiration: flying-and made it terribly boring, the least memorable part of the ride, a transition rather than a focus, the act of flipping pages in a book. The practical effects and screens are so blatantly unrelated that you never get to suspend disbelief for one or the other. You can see the other ride vehicles, which is the best part, except you aren't supposed to. I would rather sit on an omnimover through the queue than ever ride KUKA forbidden journey ever again.

Clearly not a fan of the ride or the ride system, but I think the ride system would really shine in a ride in which it was diegetic. The flying bench excuse doesn't cut it because once on board there is no emotional relationship with or awareness of the vehicle. It should be more visible, INCLUDING the track. The entire ride vehicle structure should be emphasized, which would allow for ginormous, kinetic show rooms like the temple in Indy in which several vehicles are observed along different parts of the scene, becoming part of the show beyond the show and effects immediately related to your vehicle. One example I thought up the other night was for this ride system in a wonka-like candy factory, with the ride system and vehicle being part of a massive industrial assembly line. Perhaps the "benches" are dispensing ingredients like sugar on different scenes/ candies, pushing us toward a variety of scenes that give us a variety of room scale, set decor, and play with light vs dark as well. It would also insinuate that the riders are sweet, which is kind of charming. Or we are a stamp, pressing the [wonka] logo into different candies, which would make an aggressive stamping motion that lunges riders right up into the show scene's envelope and back out again a repetitive, funny, 100% diegetic head-chopper-type gag along the way. Or, less, oddly, we are on an elaborate tour, with an elaborate transportation system, with no more ambitious or risky exposition. But in this case, the thrill of seeing these technologically sublime tracked robots flying around a beautifully-decorated room would be encouraged and leveraged, rather than suppressed the way it is in Forbidden Journey, where the scale of the show building and the scale of the vehicles are both irrelevant.

I agree 100% with you on the poor quality of the sets for Forbidden Journey. The story that came out a few years after the ride opened is that a good chunk of the budget went on the ride system, another good amount on the waiting line in the castle and Universal Creative was left with pennies to actually design something around the KUKA arms. The screen carousels saved them a lot of money, but the sets are quite embarassing and its even worst when you consider how close you get to them.

Oddly, I find Escape from Gringotts has the opposite problem: the 3-D glasses and screens hide the beautiful sets that Forbidden Journey need. When I ride Gringotts now, I don't bother with wearing the glasses and just look around at the ride tech and amazing sets.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
consumers catch on quickly. You can visit any of the Facebook groups and most of the questions asked are "Is X worth the extra money?". Once the youtube videos of the up-charged experiences hit the web, everyone will know exactly what they are paying for and profits from those won't be nearly what the company expects. Yes, there will be some who do it as a one-off deal, but those won't produce the huge money they want.

I'd like to think that would be the case - but it's rare for anything critical to get mass views on YouTube. Either they are kissing Disney behind in order to keep the benefits they get from Disney for being an "influencer" (that incredibly obnoxious and insipid term will be in the yearly list of new dictionary words, if it isn't already), or trying to get that status. The rest have so much pixie dust in their eyes they would somehow justify up-charge bathroom stalls.

"We absolutely recommend adding the VIP(oo) Magic Band Entitlement for your entire stay! Not only did we have exclusive access to these amazingly themed, sparkling restrooms (they have unlimited paper towels! on rolls!), they were such a time saver - we never waited more than five minutes between scanning our MagicBands at the door to pants down party time! They were so charming that we found one of our little ones was eating everything in sight, hoping for a touch of diarrhea, just because she thought it was so magical to keep taking a dump into a toilet shaped like Mrs. Potts! Even my husband got a chuckle out of the little toot that comes out of her spout when you, well, toot! This is now a must-doo for us when we doo at Disney - for just $15/day per person ($25/day during peak, holiday, and other busy times) it was an essential part of our tri-annual Disney Dream Vacation!"
 

pax_65

Well-Known Member
It's amazing to me that anyone can watch that, and then take one look at the current park (especially with what's to come) and think they're the same park or that its heading in the right direction...Thank you Disney for slapping us silly with nostalgia then pulling the proverbial rug out from under us by giving us GOTG...

In 1980, the park had something the current park lacks: vision. World Showcase still works (although food, wine, and beer now seem more important than actually learning about the country), but Future World is becoming IPCOT I guess.

It feels like we've lost the optimism of that early park, where we looked to colonize space and the ocean floor, find innovative ways to feed the world, etc. Back then we believed technology would bring us all together. Today we have access to amazing technology and have access to endless information... and we are more divided than ever.

If you were building EPCOT today and kept the same themes, what would Future World look like?
 

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
In 1980, the park had something the current park lacks: vision. World Showcase still works (although food, wine, and beer now seem more important than actually learning about the country), but Future World is becoming IPCOT I guess.

It feels like we've lost the optimism of that early park, where we looked to colonize space and the ocean floor, find innovative ways to feed the world, etc. Back then we believed technology would bring us all together. Today we have access to amazing technology and have access to endless information... and we are more divided than ever.

If you were building EPCOT today and kept the same themes, what would Future World look like?
Well, first off, current management would want NOTHING to do with Future World if they were building Epcot today.

But since you asked...My version of future world would look like:
-Spaceship Earth (almost exactly the same...but lose the hokey video screens and leave a more inspiring ending)
-Oceans (formerly The Living Seas. Lose Nemo, and build a better Seabase Alpha)
-Terra Firma (formerly The Land. Almost the same, just updated attraction elements. Including a new Weather-centric walk-thru attraction)
-Energy (a hands on experience of our most necessary resource + dark ride)
-World IN Motion (updated versions of old pavilion sponsored by Tesla, looking back and ahead to the future of transportation)
-Century 3 (Expanding on the Horizons model and projecting our lives from 2076 and beyond. Trackless ride with hands on exhibits)
-Imagination (Trackless ride with Figment and Dreamfinder. New Magic Eye theatre shows. New Imageworks)
-Wonders of Life (a reinvigorated pavilion touching on all aspects of human life. Dark rides and exhibits)
-The Science Faire (formerly Innoventions. Current and forthcoming explorations of science and technology. Featuring rotating exhibits from budding companies and kickstarted campaigns that answer life's tough questions and make life better for everyone)

That's rough, but you get the point.
 
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Pixieish

Well-Known Member
I'd like to think that would be the case - but it's rare for anything critical to get mass views on YouTube. Either they are kissing Disney behind in order to keep the benefits they get from Disney for being an "influencer" (that incredibly obnoxious and insipid term will be in the yearly list of new dictionary words, if it isn't already), or trying to get that status. The rest have so much pixie dust in their eyes they would somehow justify up-charge bathroom stalls.

"We absolutely recommend adding the VIP(oo) Magic Band Entitlement for your entire stay! Not only did we have exclusive access to these amazingly themed, sparkling restrooms (they have unlimited paper towels! on rolls!), they were such a time saver - we never waited more than five minutes between scanning our MagicBands at the door to pants down party time! They were so charming that we found one of our little ones was eating everything in sight, hoping for a touch of diarrhea, just because she thought it was so magical to keep taking a dump into a toilet shaped like Mrs. Potts! Even my husband got a chuckle out of the little toot that comes out of her spout when you, well, toot! This is now a must-doo for us when we doo at Disney - for just $15/day per person ($25/day during peak, holiday, and other busy times) it was an essential part of our tri-annual Disney Dream Vacation!"

I understand what you're saying, but from what I've seen on FB, people are looking past the bull to see where the value is...well, at least those who aren't wealthy are. I love Disney and am usually pretty gushy about the parks, but I'm not paying an upcharge for seating at a dessert party with a bunch of snacks no one but me is going to enjoy. Same could be said for Fantasmic.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
It's amazing to me that anyone can watch that, and then take one look at the current park (especially with what's to come) and think they're the same park or that its heading in the right direction...Thank you Disney for slapping us silly with nostalgia then pulling the proverbial rug out from under us by giving us GOTG...
Why did they unlist it?
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Well, first off, current management would want NOTHING to do with Future World if they were building Epcot today.

But since you asked...My version of future world would look like:
-Spaceship Earth (almost exactly the same...but lose the hokey video screens and leave a more inspiring ending)
-Oceans (formerly The Living Seas. Lose Nemo, and build a better Seabase Alpha)
-Terra Firma (formerly The Land. Almost the same, just updated attraction elements. Including a new Weather-centric walk-thru attraction)
-Energy (a hands on experience of our most necessary resource + dark ride)
-World IN Motion (updated versions of old pavilion sponsored by Tesla, looking back and ahead to the future of transportation)
-Century 3 (Expanding on the Horizons model and projecting our lives from 2076 and beyond. Trackless ride with hands on exhibits)
-Imagination (Trackless ride with Figment and Dreamfinder. New Magic Eye theatre shows. New Imageworks)
-Wonders of Life (a reinvigorated pavilion touching on all aspects of human life. Dark rides and exhibits)
-The Science Faire (formerly Innoventions. Current and forthcoming explorations of science and technology. Featuring rotating exhibits from budding companies and kickstarted campaigns that answer life's tough questions and make life better for everyone)

That's rough, but you get the point.
I love the trackless Imagination idea.
 

SoManyWasps

Well-Known Member
Disney has combined its WATCH apps into one, called Disney Now. A sneak peek of the new streaming service, perhaps?

http://9to5mac.com/2017/09/28/disne...junior-channels-to-one-app-with-new-features/
/Begin speculation/ Definitely. It was never just about films. Leaving Netflix made it seem that way to an extent. Live TV, sports, kids shows, news, are all going to be components of whatever platform Disney has in development. They're bracing themselves for the end of broadcast/cable, not betting against Netflix. /End speculation/
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
Iger’s MO has been more towards inequality than value engineering. DHS is getting both the cheap, Six Flags level TSL and the uber themed SW:GE side by side. There is no consistently high standard of quality.

Don’t forget that Disney will likely charge guests to have guaranteed access to SW:GE!:)
Yup. The inconsistency predates Iger, but I'd like to see it go away. At least when they built Mickey's Toontown, they took it seriously. But that was the beginning of the end, with a demographically-segmented land. The Pixar iterations that have followed haven't been designed with the same level of sincere conviction.
 

nevol

Well-Known Member
Disney has uploaded "The Dream Called EPCOT", the 1980 promo video, in HD and in full via the Disney Parks Blog. Really hope this trend continues!


Or P+R will make the blog and youtube team stop sharing information like this, because it reminds the audience that there is more to life than screen rides and IP. Just look at the comment section. Not hard to imagine a scenario in which they'd choose to rewrite or censor their own history rather than live up to their own standards and honor their history. But, this is great. It is, however, the most in-touch DPL and Disney Parks Youtube channel seems to have ever gotten to their fan base. While I'm sure clickbait about nachos and hot dogs and new seasonal merchandise can go viral, it isn't the heart and soul of the company. I second your comment then, and encourage them to continue to share content like this!
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
They are more similar aesthetically to each other than with the prequels, but I think it's about a lot more than just that. The Rebellion and the Empire are a base part of pop culture vernacular, as opposed to the Resistance and the First Order. No, I don't think your average visitor is necessarily going to pay huge attention to the time period the place is set in, but I also think there would be a tendency for more visitors to purchase, say, a Darth Vader mask instead of a Kylo Ren mask (to oversimplify things)... I think that adds up to a lot of potential profit lost.

But the new trilogy takes place after the original one. Selling a Darth Vader mask there would still make thematic sense (to the extent that selling one makes sense) because Vader has already existed and is known in the galaxy during that time. That's part of the benefit of using the latest (in chronological sense) timeframe since you can still reference earlier things in the land. There's AT-ATs in the Alcatraz ride, for example, which are known from when the Empire used them, even if the First Order also has their variation of them.
 

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