A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[Sonconato]

The Waldorf Astoria on property @ Bonnet Creek is nicer than any Disney Deluxe hotel, service and amenity wise (even the Disney executives from LA would go there to use the spa pre-Four Seasons), and is generally 2/3 of the price of the Disney deluxe hotels.

We have never been there and are not commenting on the quality of the hotel or any hotel at Bonnet Creek, however, we had recently learned that Bonnet Creek is actually not on Disney Property. We were surprised! Apparently the owners of that property held out back when Walt was purchasing the land. It really shouldn't make a difference, other than perhaps it's more affordable for a great quality place.

 

[Goob]

Since August and September are the slowest months of the year, who can blame them for starting Halloween early? Why does that bother anyone?

 

[ParentsOf4]

WDW has dropped rates for CMs, APers and FL residents as low as $32 (CMs) over the last decade. And WDW regularly had these rooms for as low as $49 for APers maybe a decade ago and slightly higher since.

In their 10Q/10K financial disclosures, Disney reports Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS), representing the amount spent per occupied hotel room at Disney's hotels. PRGS has shown a steady increase since 2010:

The 3rd quarter (July to September) consistently has the lowest PRGS, indicating the lowest demand. It's not surprising that CMs, APers, FL residents, etc. receive the best discounts for these months.

 

[GoofGoof]

Since August and September are the slowest months of the year, who can blame them for starting Halloween early? Why does that bother anyone?

Maybe dentists. Too much candy that early means rotten teeth . Then again that's good for business

 

[JoeCamel]

I betcha when she created the concept of butterbeer, J.K. Rowling had no idea that she was creating a revenue stream with more profit than what most make in a lifetime!

Don't forget wands! $50 for $3 plastic? Nice markup!

 

[Disorbust]

So does the spending per room include park tickets? Just curious because if it does I wonder if dollar per room spent would ;look more flat.

 

[DisneyDaver]

View attachment 225578
Found this when moving this weekend

This is awesome! How I miss Discovery Island. Though I suspect that today's kids would find it boring. Not sure they would appreciate the 80's version of EPCOT either (which I also loved) ... unfortunately we will never know because that EPCOT is not coming back.

 

[BrianLo]

1) It turns out that no matter how often they put Iron Man in front of Captain America in the Chinese market, the polling (and merch sales) indicates that Marvel is perceived to push an American agenda. If costs of developing big Marvel attractions won't be spread out to include the Chinese parks, Disney is perhaps considering them to be not worth the investment.

@the.dreamfinder already addressed this, but Marvel is actually quite successful in China. Much to their chagrin they have not been able to make Star Wars work to the same extent. HKDL is the one leading the pack with Marvel attractions, so no I don't think this is the reason. Unless their Chinese partners are throwing a fit that they want more exclusives.

 

[matt9112]

Those of us who find value and enjoyment out of today's WDW aren't allowed to have opinions because we're "idiot pixie dust snorters"

value arguably is subjective....but I would say a 5000 dollar toilet for example is a bad value period but you may still find it worth while. when we talk value we do need to look at the industry norms and use these indicators as a barometer of Disney products value wise. there is absolutely no justification for 1000$ a night rooms on property anywhere let alone the 1700 some command....its borderline indefensible however people pay it and thus TWDC has found enough people who value that price point. I'm not arguing rooms shouldn't be more than hotel blvd (to a point) I'm arguing the margins are absurd.

 

[matt9112]

I mean ... prices go up. I agree they've gone up WAY too much but we shouldn't expect the pricing to be what it was three decades ago. I'd love to book a moderate resort for what I paid for one ten years ago, but is that realistic? Now as for what you PERSONALLY think it's "worth" ... I've made mentions in the past of them taking things away and still raising prices. Do they understand they don't HAVE to raise prices every year? But yet people still pay them. There has to be a tipping point somewhere.

prices should follow inflation unless the product quality has increased....has the latter happened? than why has the former absolutely not?

 

[matt9112]

I'm different. I live closer. I don't have to buy airfare, I don't have kids, I travel solo. For me it's still affordable (I don't pay for a Disney hotel. I pay under 80 bucks a night for a room on Hotel Plaza Blvd). I understand some are at their tipping point. I get it. If I lived elsewhere and had more people to pay for, I probably wouldn't do it (and there was a period of time I didn't go, for several years, 2008-2015 springs to mind - when they weren't investing in the parks - and I traveled elsewhere, took cruises, went to California) But nothing they've done so far has really made me not want to go. I don't like every decision they make. But we have to understand just because we feel a certain way, not everyone shares that opinion. Because some find less value, there's thousands of others who do. For those who hate what Epcot has become or is becoming, thousands more embrace it. For those that don't like Marvel shoved in, or Star Wars, thousands of others do.

We're a very small minority who look at the parks differently, right or wrong others don't see it the same way and that's who they're catering to.

I'm not going to throw my arms up because they should have used their money better and given us something other than Toy Story Land.

I have to say if they gutted SSE that could be a tipping point. But so far nothing they've done has made me not want to go. I don't like Guardians going into Epcot but it's not stopping me from going. I don't think Frozen was the right fit for WS but I'm fine with Ratatouille. I don't think TRON was the answer for the MK but I'm still looking forward to it. Not everything is make or break for me or black and white.

What do you think the tipping point should be?

such a good post. I'm local also and like you if I wasn't probably wouldn't go nearly as often. heck when I joined the forum I still lived in Boston (thank God I left) so it's much easier to justify. we usually do one night stays only (Saturday nights) at an offsite hotel (usually 100 to 125 a night) clearly I still love the parks but it is still sad seeing money become the ONLY goal.

 

[BrianLo]

I always find this WDW burn out thing a bit fascinating. It seems for many "Disney" is owning 3-4 DVC's with a minimum biannual pilgrimage... or nothing. I think there is a lot of people who have recently awoken to the fact they've been swindled for the last decade, but the reaction feels like a delayed commitment you should have made a decade ago, not today.

Why is this particular year, the one where they actually opened an E-ticket in the swamps the one that breaks the camels back?

I agree that WDW has done an absolutely terrible job of investing and decreasing their overall value proposition. It's hindsight, but a lot of people here have themselves to blame for not being able to break from their addiction when the slope was truly trending towards negative. Spiralling really.

Creative decisions aside (because that's a whole different discussion), it's also clear they are investing again... FINALLY! That's not something even up for debate unless you want @ParentsOf4 to hit you over the head with a chart.

WDW is a whole lot more enjoyable if you didn't actually burn yourself out on the product in the last decade. The solution isn't quitting cold turkey now, it was moderation for the last 10-20 years. Can't exactly help if you made that mistake already.

 

[Kman101]

such a good post. I'm local also and like you if I wasn't probably wouldn't go nearly as often. heck when I joined the forum I still lived in Boston (thank God I left) so it's much easier to justify. we usually do one night stays only (Saturday nights) at an offsite hotel (usually 100 to 125 a night) clearly I still love the parks but it is still sad seeing money become the ONLY goal.

It is sad to see how greedy they are but if people give them what they want ...

I usually stay a day or two. I used to take day trips and drive home but now I stay a couple of nights every couple of months. I couldn't imagine coming up with the dough a family would spend lol

 

[matt9112]

It is sad to see how greedy they are but if people give them what they want ...

I usually stay a day or two. I used to take day trips and drive home but now I stay a couple of nights every couple of months. I couldn't imagine coming up with the dough a family would spend lol

it's not easy Disney takes ALLLLOT of our expendable income. luckily I only have one child. we are doing three days at the dolphin this weekend. my first taste of the lavish lifestyle of the family's I see in Disney promo commercials. I'm hoping the crowds don't exist just like those commercials too!

 

[ford91exploder]

I always find this WDW burn out thing a bit fascinating. It seems for many "Disney" is owning 3-4 DVC's with a minimum biannual pilgrimage... or nothing. I think there is a lot of people who have recently awoken to the fact they've been swindled for the last decade, but the reaction feels like a delayed commitment you should have made a decade ago, not today.

Why is this particular year, the one where they actually opened an E-ticket in the swamps the one that breaks the camels back?

I agree that WDW has done an absolutely terrible job of investing and decreasing their overall value proposition. It's hindsight, but a lot of people here have themselves to blame for not being able to break from their addiction when the slope was truly trending towards negative. Spiralling really.

Creative decisions aside (because that's a whole different discussion), it's also clear they are investing again... FINALLY! That's not something even up for debate unless you want @ParentsOf4 to hit you over the head with a chart.

WDW is a whole lot more enjoyable if you didn't actually burn yourself out on the product in the last decade. The solution isn't quitting cold turkey now, it was moderation for the last 10-20 years. Can't exactly help if you made that mistake already.

Your analysis fails to include longer term DVC members who at one time every visit meant something new to do / see / eat, its only been the last 10 years where every recent visit has been 'whats been removed this trip'.

For many of us that's been the tipping point where before an annual trip meant new experiences now its just what's been taken away this time, And weve stopped trusting Disney on finishing projects

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Since August and September are the slowest months of the year, who can blame them for starting Halloween early? Why does that bother anyone?

More party nights means fewer opportunities to see Happily Ever After or experiencing the park after dark without paying extra. I'm fine with starting the party early in September to accomodate demand, but August is overkill.

 

[matt9112]

More party nights means fewer opportunities to see Happily Ever After or experiencing the park after dark without paying extra. I'm fine with starting the party early in September to accomodate demand, but August is overkill.

imagine your on vacation and your MK day falls on a party date....ekkk pay up or else.

 

[JenniferS]

Those of us who find value and enjoyment out of today's WDW aren't allowed to have opinions because we're "idiot pixie dust snorters"

Guilty.

 

[tirian]

Another quick note, but been told that our pal @lentesta is at WDW and staying at a value resort for under $80 a night, including tax.

Now, I've always viewed Len as the type of guy who would be at the Grand Flo myself ... but if he is showing fiscal restraint who am I to judge? But the person who brought this to my attention was acting like this is some mindblowing development and sign that WDW's business is in the tank. The phrase "unheard of" was used.

That just isn't true. WDW has dropped rates for CMs, APers and FL residents as low as $32 (CMs) over the last decade. And WDW regularly had these rooms for as low as $49 for APers maybe a decade ago and slightly higher since.

The point, beyond Lenny being cheap (he can afford the Four Seasons with his little empire), which is perfectly acceptable, is that rates are adjusted based on load levels. It is pretty safe to say that WDW didn't get the Pandora Bounce it was expecting. And August (well, from mid-August anyway) and September are two of the slowest months of the year. I would guess these rates will largely disappear in a month's time.

I've stayed at Pop for $28/night within the last decade, back when the recession hit hotels hard.

 

[DisneyDaver]

prices should follow inflation unless the product quality has increased....has the latter happened? than why has the former absolutely not?

Prices should follow demand (not inflation or product quality). I suspect that demand for WDW and other forms of entertainment has increased substantially over the past 25 years. I'm not defending the WDW product decline ... I'm not happy about it. But I have no issues with the prices charged by WDW. If people are willing to pay it, then they must think the prices are worth it.