A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[Mike S]

Happy to hear Shrek may be on the chopping block. Uni Hollywood was smart to dump it. I love Shrek but it's time to move on.

It's been available as a bonus feature on Shrek DVDs for so long it's amazing it's been at the park for almost just as long, maybe longer.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

It's been available as a bonus feature on Shrek DVDs for so long it's amazing it's been at the park for almost just as long, maybe longer.

It's even on Netflix now!

 

[asianway]

Spirited Quickees (because they are the best kind):

I see talk about CM pay, WDW prices and quality and ... and ... it is all part and parcel of the 'new normal' where economic inequality is praised, people are told they shouldn't expect living wages (just get another job!) and people who aren't even worth a million dollars (if they sold all their Disney crap) yell about protecting the billionaires and corporations from paying their fair share because they are deluded enough to envision a future that has them having that type of wealth. No, taxes are not an evil, they are a necessary part of a civilized society with social nets in place to take care of those less fortunate or those impacted by say ... a major national disaster.

As to WDW, I loved @lentesta 's post on CM pay (just hopelessly behind here right now) almost as much as I loved http://blog.touringplans.com/2017/08/31/mmm_aug2017/ ... so that's a lot! The idea that paying people a bit more impacts what you pay in a tiny way is why I will never eat a Papa John's pizza again. Not sure if you recall during the fights over the ACA when the head of the company said he would never support it because it would add one cent to the cost of a pizza. Gee, charge people a penny more and everyone he employs gets healthcare or don't and they suffer and ... as the kewl kidz say ... I can't even.

BTW, back to my best buddy (we went to school together in second grade and I protected him when other future bloggers, notably Lou 'Two Chins' Mongello, would try to beat him up for his lunch money), @derekburgan, but I am amazed every time I visit the local Disney outlet store by how much Star Wars crap they are trying to unload. Literally, the store here is about two-thirds SW merchandise at this point. Yes, much is Disney Store branded, but that is no different from what you get at WDW. No, not suggesting anything beyond Disney has too much product.

To Lenny's point about hotel rates at WDW, I do agree that discounts the last 24-30 months have seemed steeper and more desperate than in the 'recovery period' after the massive discounting following the 2007-08 economic collapse. I already have banner adds offering me rooms at the All Stars for $76 a night starting 10/29. I, personally, have never paid more than $79 plus tax for them (that was back when summer was a big season and two decades ago!)

Don't know if anyone here has mentioned it yet, but DLP finally opened Les Village Nature yesterday. Will be interesting to see how the place moves the needle on stays there. The water park aspect interests me the most. I don't see the venture interesting the typical Americans who finally visit an international outpost.

DLP has also announced major new Christmas entertainment this year, which I sadly will miss. New stage shows at both parks. Smaller version of Tokyo's Big Band Beat. New projection show at WDSP.

Saw there was a bit of a dust up over FoP being the best attraction in the world. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinions. I haven't ridden it yet. It impressed the Hillbilly who used to post here. But he certainly didn't say 'Best ride in the world.' ... And having just ridden some great rides in Shanghai and Tokyo, I'm having a wait and see attitude. I believe it will impress me. How much it will impress me is the question.

Yes, that new 'VIP' tour of DAK is offensive. But rubes with money remain WDW's most coveted audience. The people who would rather pay $600 a night for the BC versus $150 for the Swan because the former has Disney MAGIC!

You might not have a life (and possibly have serious mental issues) if you are a blogger who has eaten every item at the Fall Food and Booze Fest and taken pictures of it and thinks that he/she/it is doing a service to the world ... or if you've been to 2-3 MNSSHPs before Labor Day etc.

I will now ask for a moment of silence in honor of the death of HKDL's Buzz Lightyear attraction two days ago. If you could take the other versions worldwide with you, I'd be very grateful.

Planning a future visit to O-Town for 10 days and wondering whether it is even worth setting foot in Disney's No Name Third Gate MAGICal IP Park. ToT is great. But one attraction does not a theme park make.

Hope to respond to some posts later today/tonight!

Given how small the portion sizes have become I can't blame the bloggers for eating them all.

And Paris did the Band Christmas show last year, only new thing is it's Mickey instead of Goofy now

 

[MaximumEd]

How bout that Bama-Noles game? Roll Tide! Couldn't resist. Back to Disney stuff.

 

[NearTheEars]

That's apples and oranges.

The new Mickey Mouse Cartoons do not look a thing like the classic cartoons (or even the computer animated Mickey Mouse Clubhouse) animations that we see. They are done at the cheap in order for them to be made. Why make a new attraction with a character that does not resemble the character we know?

Now, back to the original thread.

I don't think that style is done because it's cheap, it's just the current popular style of animation. Turn on Cartoon Network sometime. It's not my favorite, but I don't think it's horrible. It's certainly not as artistic as handrawn animation was in its heyday. The true artistry is happening now with computers and the latest Pixar and WDA releases. Different medium, but they are making it beautiful.

 

[NearTheEars]

Disney's 'value' resorts (and that designation is going away as I first broke here years ago now) are simply basic motels with not even the same amenities that a basic Hilton Garden Inn or Courtyard or Comfort Inn provide. I think they are worth between $50-80 a night. Not a cent more.

I'd agree if they weren't sitting on WDW property. Whether it's actual, or just perceived, the location value exists for vacationers. Yes a basic motel off an interstate can typically range between $50-$80, but I wouldn't expect to pay the same for one off of Buena Vista Dr.

That being said, do we ever stay there on our weekend getaways? Heck no! We stay off property for about the same price with better amenities. The few times we've stayed at an All-Star or Pop were during the slow season with an AP discount.

 

[NearTheEars]

The Sporting Event analogy would be a good one if anyone ever spent 6 nights on-property in the stadium eating at the concession stand.

I don't think sporting events or concert tix are a good comparison to a WDW vacation, but I do think it shows that other entertainment industries have raised prices exponentially over the same period of time and people are still flocking to them.

I do think it's fair to compare concession prices as both take advantage of captive audiences.
Much like how I spent $6 on a large Coke tonight at a Regal theater. Makes the $3-$4 one at WDW seem like a steal. Yikes!

 

[FigmentJedi]

So who else is looking forward to @marni1971's upcoming Imagination Tribute video that is coming this month?

Next week. 90 minutes. Gonna be great.

 

[doctornick]

I'd agree if they weren't sitting on WDW property. Whether it's actual, or just perceived, the location value exists for vacationers. Yes a basic motel off an interstate can typically range between $50-$80, but I wouldn't expect to pay the same for one off of Buena Vista Dr.

This is all my point is. A decent, clean motel room on property at one of the largest tourist attraction in the world can be expected to have a rack rate around $100 just based on comps in similar situations. I'm not saying the price is "worth it" or that you can't get it cheaper with discounts, but that the price is not some out of the ordinary number. It's quite in line with industry standards.

If someone wants to argue that all hotel rooms are overpriced and should be cheaper, be my guest. But I don't see Disney charging anything out of the ordinary for the product and proximity to a major draw for tourists. At least for values and moderates.

 

[brb1006]

Next week. 90 minutes. Gonna be great.

So excited to even see a teaser for it soon.

 

[marni1971]

This is a little off topic, but how many people are really going to Orlando for 14 days? We could personally afford it, but with taking people like in High School and Middle school, our local school policy only allows students to be gone for 6 days a trimester. I assume this is the norm across the nation?

2 weeks is the usual length of a trip west for Europeans. We're lucky to be able to do three weeks at a time.

 

[UpAllNight]

2 weeks is the usual length of a trip west for Europeans. We're lucky to do three weeks at a time.

Likewise we did three weeks this year, but it's not something we do every year...maybe alternate years and go somewhere different in-between. I am always slightly amazed by the price difference in what we pay for a 21 day Disney ticket to what Americans would have to pay to get the same, across all parks. We paid $230 for example for Discovery Cove with Dolphin Swim, and 14 day unlimited access to Busch, Aquatica and Seaworld.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I take issue with the not waiting more then 20-30 minutes. Back in the early 70's I vividly remember the Jungle cruise being a 1 hour and 30 minute wait and Space Mountain being the same during spring break. Like a normal family we took vacations on school breaks and Disney at the time just MK was very crowded. I still enjoyed it but the lines were much more then 20-30 minutes for the popular attractions. No FP's for sure and I remember buying tickets for rides. Astro orbiter was a C- ticket, I member that because I really wanted to go on that and we had to go buy C-tickets for it. Or at least we didn't have the right tickets for it, 95% sure it was a C-ticket.

In the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, when you visited WDW was really important.

I tended to go in early May or late August and rarely saw lines longer than 30 minutes. Even the most popular attractions would peak at 45 minutes in the middle of the afternoon. I also remember less than a 5-minute wait for a lot of attractions in the morning and evening, even Space Mountain and Peter Pan's Flight. I recall seeing PoTC dispatch with empty boats.

The first time I ever waited an hour was the month after Tower of Terror opened in 1994. By 1996, ToT waits were shorter. I distinctly remember ToT being a walk-on for the first two hours after Disney-MGM Studios opened, and ending the evening as a near-walk-on.

It wasn't until FP began to catch on in the early 2000s that I started noticing longer lines. Remember, FP did not increase ride capacity, it only redistributed wait time. You'd wait in one hour-long Standby line and then use your FP to jump in front of everyone else who were waiting in another hour-long line. Your average wait time was still around 30 minutes, with one 60-minute wait and one 5-minute wait, unlike before when you might have (say) two 30-minute waits.

The other big change that started in the 2000s was the end of offseason. The parks would be nearly empty in (say) September. During a couple of early May trips, I remember Peter Pan's Flight peaking at 25 minutes. Those days are over.

 

[JoeCamel]

With UNI, is it really that hard to renegotiate the contract? The royalty structure, signed by a desperate cash strapped Marvel, predates WWoHP so they basically get nothing from the most substantial and popular theme park presence of these characters. Is Bob Iger's ego so fragile that they cannot just push a redo the royalty structure in exchange for the MCU version of Marvel?

Takes two to play and Universal has stated they have no interest in changing the contract.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

So your point is we go hard core socialist or communist that way no one can afford WDW?

Income inequality drives Disney's bottom line and top line. Theme parks are frivolous in general.

Income inequality shrinks the market of consumers who can afford a Disney vacation. The decreasing value of a Disney vacation further shrinks that pool amongst those who can afford it. This is a very serious problem that threatens the long term viability of domestic parks and resorts.

Recall the "300 million income adjusted guests" line the company touted in the run up to Shanghai Disneyland's grand opening? That number is only going to grow as the Chinese middle class expands. Additionally, the 300 million grouping will see its wages rise which will result in more guests who can afford more than just tickets, like eating in the parks, purchasing non counterfeited merchandise and even a night or two at one of the resort's hotels.

I'm not gearing up to fill out a Communist Party membership application, but surely you can understand how income inequality fundamentally undermines the parks.

 

[GoofGoof]

In the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, when you visited WDW was really important.

I tended to go in early May or late August and rarely saw lines longer than 30 minutes. Even the most popular attractions would peak at 45 minutes in the middle of the afternoon. I also remember less than a 5-minute wait for a lot of attractions in the morning and evening, even Space Mountain and Peter Pan's Flight. I recall seeing PoTC dispatch with empty boats.

The first time I ever waited an hour was the month after Tower of Terror opened in 1994. By 1996, ToT waits were shorter. I distinctly remember ToT being a walk-on for the first two hours after Disney-MGM Studios opened, and ending the evening as a near-walk-on.

It wasn't until FP began to catch on in the early 2000s that I started noticing longer lines. Remember, FP did not increase ride capacity, it only redistributed wait time. You'd wait in one hour-long Standby line and then use your FP to jump in front of everyone else who were waiting in another hour-long line. Your average wait time was still around 30 minutes, with one 60-minute wait and one 5-minute wait, unlike before when you might have (say) two 30-minute waits.

The other big change that started in the 2000s was the end of offseason. The parks would be nearly empty in (say) September. During a couple of early May trips, I remember Peter Pan's Flight peaking at 25 minutes. Those days are over.

Before I had kids one of my favorite times to go was January after New Years. The parks were literally empty and they kept a lot of the Christmas stuff up for the first week or 2 in January so it was possible to catch some of that too if you wanted. This was back when people didn't need foam heads and participation medals to run a marathon. It was very possible to ride every ride and never wait more than 20 mins if you timed things right. Many rides were walk on.

 

[bcoachable]

Any one see that ESPN SEC guru Paul Finebaum will be sitting down for an interview with Auburn grad and Apple CEO Timmy Cook?
Show of synergy possibly??

 

[ParentsOf4]

Income inequality shrinks the market of consumers who can afford a Disney vacation. The decreasing value of a Disney vacation further shrinks that pool amongst those who can afford it. This is a very serious problem that threatens the long term viability of domestic parks and resorts.

Family income hasn't kept pace with WDW prices since 2001.

WDW did a huge reset with the introduction of the Magic Your Way (MYW) ticket in 2005. For example, a 7-day advanced purchase hopper plus was $316 at the beginning of 2005. A 7-day base MYW ticket cost $199 by the end of 2005.

Since then, there have been steady price increases with no relief.

Adjusted for inflation, that 2005 hopper plus ticket would be about $400 today. Today, a 7-day base MYW ticket costs $410. Even a base MYW ticket today costs more than an inflation-adjusted full benefits ticket did in 2005.

Except for recessions, Disney's strategy worked well when a growing numbers of Guests were coming from Brazil and Argentina. With the recent economic difficulties in South America, WDW is not seeing the growth it should be seeing given today's U.S. economic environment.

In 2010, Universal showed that vacationers will pay for the right product, no matter what the economic climate. It seems Disney leadership is counting on the same happening when Galaxy's Edge and other attractions open.

 

[NearTheEars]

This is all my point is. A decent, clean motel room on property at one of the largest tourist attraction in the world can be expected to have a rack rate around $100 just based on comps in similar situations. I'm not saying the price is "worth it" or that you can't get it cheaper with discounts, but that the price is not some out of the ordinary number. It's quite in line with industry standards.

If someone wants to argue that all hotel rooms are overpriced and should be cheaper, be my guest. But I don't see Disney charging anything out of the ordinary for the product and proximity to a major draw for tourists. At least for values and moderates.

It's like saying paying more to stay in an oceanfront hotel is stupid because you could just stay a block away and pay less and still end up seeing the same thing after a short drive. I think the oceanfront guests and the operator would beg to differ. Better views, better location will always result in a higher price no matter the amenities.

I'm not saying the view of an All-Star pool is as nice as the Gulf, though haha.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I didn't say that. ... As to the boost, Chappie will crow that Mission Breakout is the highest rated attraction at the DLR. Because if you take a survey and set it up to get certain responses, you do wind up getting them! I don't for one minute believe that attraction is more 'liked' than everything from RSRs to PotC to the Matterhorn.

I would rank about 30 attractions at the Disneyland Resort ahead of the Matterhorn.