A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[WDW1974]

When did all this misery of "bad management" begin at Walt Disney World? When did the effects start to trickle in? Elaborate history lesson please or I could get a pm
@WDW1974

Sorry, but no time at all for lengthy history lessons.

But this has been going on steadily at WDW ... from the late 90s to today.

 

[HMF]

I think we should all be busy decorating our houses for Halloween since it is Labor Day Weekend and all ... wonder if all the bloggers breathlessly doing PR for Celebration Place will be yearning for Christmas by the end of September!

Personally, I am so fed up with the constant onslaught of holidays that I do the bare minimum of decorating these days.

 

[GoofGoof]

The sports analogy sucks and I wish people would stop using it. You want to talk value at WDW? Compare what a WDW vacation was in 1987 or 1997 versus today. Compare a WDW vacation with other Disney and non-Disney family resorts. But leave sports out ... because it absolutely is comparing apples and avocado and crab dip.

You are correct that some people have had complaints about heat, crowds and prices since the 70s. But some people will complain about anything (see my fans here). A simple look back at prices versus average salary and inflation shows that WDW was an infinitely better value proposition in 1977 or 1987 than it is today. As to crowds, some people have no tolerance for waiting for anything. I don't like it, but I never minded waiting at WDW pre-FP because I never waited more than 20-30 minutes for anything except on say July 4th or Christmas week. (I don't want to point out that 30 years ago, the MK would have closed every day in September at either 6 or 7 with no fireworks and no upcharge parties and that EPCOT would have closed at 8 or 9 every night).

Weather has gotten hotter though. Summer didn't use to start in April and go until Halloween. But global warming is a liberal snowflake myth designed to destroy business ... You gotta love living in today's USA when the EPA head comes out says "We're not going to base everything we do on science." And we wonder why we are the laughingstock of the world right now.

Fair enough. Sports aren't a perfect analogy. My only point is that many businesses (especially non-essential, entertainment based businesses) have seen dramatic price increases over the same 30-40 years. From a macro-economic prospective families have more disposable income (or at least spend more) today then they did 30 or 40 years ago. That probably stems from more 2 earner families, the overuse and abuse of credit cards and/or the trend of more people borrowing (with low interest rates) than saving. There's also more foreign visitors (particularly from S. America) then the distant past. My point is that the WDW business model has moved to attracting more visitors but who visit less frequently.

I don't disagree that global warming is real, but while temperatures may be up a few degrees on average it was still hot even back in the 70s/80s. I too preferred the pre-FP days but there's not much I can do about it. That (billion dollar+) ship has sailed and those days ain't comin back.

Agreed that WDW is still more expensive compared to other family resorts. I would exclude from the comparison non-US based destinations like Mexico or Caribbean islands and cruise ships that are dirt cheap on the backs of 3rd world labor. If you compare WDW to other US based resorts it's still pretty pricey. I can't personally justify spending the money to visit multiple times a year or even annually at this point, but to each their own.

 

[WDW1974]

The idea that in 2020 a Disney park would feature an Avatar land but NOT a Marvel land is pretty close to corporate malpractice.

Believe it or not, but I agree with this 100%. Oh, and no Disney park in the world will have a Marvel land come 2020 (or 11 years after Disney bought them.)

 

[Kman101]

That is a very weak defense of current management and business practices.

At some point, you can't simply raise prices, add upcharge events and cut costs (that means quality and things that made you special to begin with).

And let's not confuse people visiting with people finding value in the product. Many come, have miserable times or just don't get what the fuss is and never return. One and dones.

And even some of us who are tied to the resort to some degree with DVC ownership and/or APs don't necessarily spend like we once did or visit as much as we did. I am three hours away. I have had an AP since 1982. I haven't seen Pandora yet. I haven't been to WDW since April (and was only there because a dear friend, and member of this community, passed away). I have been to DLP, SDL and TDR instead. No regrets at all.

It probably wasn't the right choice of words, but clearly people are still going, some may walk away miserable, etc. but they aren't hurting yet.

It wasn't a defense, I think the management sucks. I don't like many of the decisions they make.

I still go because I'm an hour and a half away, I pay 80 bucks for a room, etc. It's a nice little escape for me, but I've done other things and am planning other trips (California, Paris). I can visit for a few days and spend little not like many who pay thousands for a week on-site.

 

[WDW1974]

Comments like this come up a lot and I don't really get them. How much would you expect a decent but unremarkable hotel/motel in a prime location to cost? $100 a night seems pretty much in line for an affordable non-roach motel place near a major tourist attraction. This isn't a roadside place on the side of a desolate highway.

Disney's 'value' resorts (and that designation is going away as I first broke here years ago now) are simply basic motels with not even the same amenities that a basic Hilton Garden Inn or Courtyard or Comfort Inn provide. I think they are worth between $50-80 a night. Not a cent more.

 

[WDW1974]

See that's the thing. I summed up your post in one sentence, but we're not all following a Spirit thread to get the info in bite sized packages. People want the exposition, the stories, the evocative words that paint a picture. Drop some more crumbs, Spirit.

I will as time allows ... right now, time for pizza and focusing on the 'Bama-Noles game. So I am outta here ...

 

[GoofGoof]

Spending doesn't equal adding quality and quantity and reasons for people to spend their $$$ on WDW. ... The more I hear about Toy Story Land and Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge, the more confident I am that whatever they call that park will still be in trouble in three years.

I can't disagree with your opinion on DHS. They desperately will need a phase 3 or whatever they want to call it. Not holding my breath on that. As far as spending, the lineup of new additions over a 5 year period at WDW is really unprecedented under Iger. Maybe it's just making up for the lean years, but if you count the opening of Avatar through 2022 we will have 7 new e-ticket or high end d-ticket rides:

1. FoP
2. SW Alcatraz
3. SW MF
4. Great Mickey Ride
5. Tron Coaster
6. Guardians of the Universe of Energy
7. Rat Ride (some will argue not an E)

Plus Navi River and the 2 Toy Story rides.

There are many arguments that can be made that some of these were bad decisions and some are replacing existing rides and Tron will be the first new e-ticket at MK in 25 years but it's still a pretty decent effort at adding new content. We won't really know about the quality for a little while but so far Avatar seems pretty decent. I hope they allot some money to clean up the rest of EPCOT once they finish with the new additions. Adding new stuff is great but they need to maintain what they have too.

 

[UpAllNight]

I agree. But UNI is just as bad or worse. It's amazing how Potter (and soon Nintendo) will cover for amazingly bad leadership. Volcano Bay is more the rule than the exception.

Universal get far too much of a free ride. Their direction post Diagon has been atrocious....Universal Studios is a complete mess and Islands is dated in areas it really shouldn't be (J Park & Marvel). People don't think Doctor Doom Meet and Greet and a Storm spinner when they think of Marvel in 2017...nor do they think that pop up carnival games make the best use of Jurassic Park IP. Fast and Furious will be the tipping point for many

 

[UpAllNight]

Disney's 'value' resorts (and that designation is going away as I first broke here years ago now) are simply basic motels with not even the same amenities that a basic Hilton Garden Inn or Courtyard or Comfort Inn provide. I think they are worth between $50-80 a night. Not a cent more.

And they can clearly be offered for even lower than that, I have seen All Stars at just over £1100 ($1300) for 14 nights this September, including flights and airport to hotel transport.

 

[brb1006]

So who else is looking forward to @marni1971's upcoming Imagination Tribute video that is coming this month?

 

[Mike S]

I agree. But UNI is just as bad or worse. It's amazing how Potter (and soon Nintendo) will cover for amazingly bad leadership. Volcano Bay is more the rule than the exception.

And there's my excuse to jump in and ask what you know of any recent developments beyond the possible KidZone closure around HHN

Believe it or not, but I agree with this 100%. Oh, and no Disney park in the world will have a Marvel land come 2020 (or 11 years after Disney bought them.)

Any word on Uni's Avengers ride?

Universal get far too much of a free ride. Their direction post Diagon has been atrocious....Universal Studios is a complete mess and Islands is dated in areas it really shouldn't be (J Park & Marvel). People don't think Doctor Doom Meet and Greet and a Storm spinner when they think of Marvel in 2017...nor do they think that pop up carnival games make the best use of Jurassic Park IP. Fast and Furious will be the tipping point for many

There's been rumors for a while now that an update for River Adventure is in the cards that would replace the animatronics with better ones made by Creature Technology (the guys behind the new Kong), but yeah, I see no reason to get an AP again until the new Harry Potter ride opens.

Oh, and the day may finally be coming where they replace Shrek if recent stuff I've been reading on OU is accurate!!!!!!!

 

[rael ramone]

Planning a future visit to O-Town for 10 days and wondering whether it is even worth setting foot in Disney's No Name Third Gate MAGICal IP Park. ToT is great. But one attraction does not a theme park make.

Hope to respond to some posts later today/tonight!

The trip I just came back from I was at the 'half park' for a single day till 5pm. Most of the trip had very good to great sit down dinners, but the Brown Derby was a disappointment this time. For the price point they charge there is no excuse for not having crisp skin on a duck breast. And the rolls weren't fresh.

A positive aspect was the Unnecessary Security Theatre! (which should always ALWAYS ALWAYS be said in full Stacy mode) was much smoother. So it is slightly less of a hassle for park entry (and park hopping). And I always enjoy the walk from the Studios to Epcot.

 

[Nubs70]

I think we should all be busy decorating our houses for Halloween since it is Labor Day Weekend and all ... wonder if all the bloggers breathlessly doing PR for Celebration Place will be yearning for Christmas by the end of September!

I would but I have been hoarding pumpkin spice laced foodstuffs since August.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

The sports analogy sucks and I wish people would stop using it. You want to talk value at WDW? Compare what a WDW vacation was in 1987 or 1997 versus today. Compare a WDW vacation with other Disney and non-Disney family resorts. But leave sports out ... because it absolutely is comparing apples and avocado and crab dip.

You are correct that some people have had complaints about heat, crowds and prices since the 70s. But some people will complain about anything (see my fans here). A simple look back at prices versus average salary and inflation shows that WDW was an infinitely better value proposition in 1977 or 1987 than it is today. As to crowds, some people have no tolerance for waiting for anything. I don't like it, but I never minded waiting at WDW pre-FP because I never waited more than 20-30 minutes for anything except on say July 4th or Christmas week. (I don't want to point out that 30 years ago, the MK would have closed every day in September at either 6 or 7 with no fireworks and no upcharge parties and that EPCOT would have closed at 8 or 9 every night).

Weather has gotten hotter though. Summer didn't use to start in April and go until Halloween. But global warming is a liberal snowflake myth designed to destroy business ... You gotta love living in today's USA when the EPA head comes out says "We're not going to base everything we do on science." And we wonder why we are the laughingstock of the world right now.

The Sporting Event analogy would be a good one if anyone ever spent 6 nights on-property in the stadium eating at the concession stand.

 

[disneylandcm]

I will as time allows ... right now, time for pizza and focusing on the 'Bama-Noles game. So I am outta here ...

Since Marvel has been delayed at DCA can you tell us (when you have time) what is planned for us after SW:GE opens? Thanks!

 

[Kman101]

And there's my excuse to jump in and ask what you know of any recent developments beyond the possible KidZone closure around HHN

Any word on Uni's Avengers ride?

There's been rumors for a while now that an update for River Adventure is in the cards that would replace the animatronics with better ones made by Creature Technology (the guys behind the new Kong), but yeah, I see no reason to get an AP again until the new Harry Potter ride opens.

Oh, and the day may finally be coming where they replace Shrek if recent stuff I've been reading on OU is accurate!!!!!!!

Happy to hear Shrek may be on the chopping block. Uni Hollywood was smart to dump it. I love Shrek but it's time to move on.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

This is a little off topic, but how many people are really going to Orlando for 14 days? We could personally afford it, but with taking people like in High School and Middle school, our local school policy only allows students to be gone for 6 days a trimester. I assume this is the norm across the nation?

The standard UK holiday is 2 weeks, so it is very common.

Happy to hear Shrek may be on the chopping block. Uni Hollywood was smart to dump it. I love Shrek but it's time to move on.

Shrek's replacement will help balance out the park a bit.

 

[Nj4mwc]

Thanks for the update! I'm curious your thoughts on Imagineerings choice of using the new "Walmart" style of animation in the new Mickey Mouse ride replacing Great Movie Ride rather than the classic version of Mickey we see in the Parks?

If the ride sucks it doesn't hurt classic Mickey they can just blame the new animation style not the ride or Mickey, they protect Mickey pretty heavily

 

[monykalyn]

Just a note that everyone's favorite twink in the desert, Dakota (who still somehow doesn't have a job with Disney ... he hits on all the marks for Disney ... young, gay, monied and did better social media work on SDL for free than the pros have done) is headed back to SDL, which sorta surprises me because you'd think he'd want to visit WDW (nah, too smart for that!) or one of the other international resorts too.

I can't wait for his Tweets. I find them so amusing and informative ... not in the LOL way that Scarlett's Tweets elicit ... not in the "I have a major mental illness" way that her ex-beau's Tweets do ... not in the shaking my head in agreement way that Andy Castro's do ... but they are great for pics and info as to what is going on at the newest Disney resort.

Again, Disney -- HIRE THE BOY!!!

Meanwhile an official DPB can't even get the right land for an attraction...
https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...-enchanted-tiki-room-at-magic-kingdom-park-2/

just bigly sad!