A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[GoofGoof]

No I don't fail to recognize that the Disney parks are wildly popular now. I believe the reason is more driven by inertia driven by nostalgia rather than genuine excitement for the product being offered TODAY.

The X factor thats missing is the parks pre 'bad Eisner/Iger' era had something that made people want to return over and over again.

Now it's more 'ive been to disney dont know what the big deal is about the place'. I hear this from too many first timers and i dont think is a good thing

Unless you are a travel agent now too I don't know how you would come across enough first time visitors to quantify that most new visitors are not happy with WDW.

It's not just nostalgia they sell. WDW has become a right of passage for many kids. That's not changing. I have young kids and I can tell you that the vast majority of their friend's families have either been to WDW or are planning a trip in the near future. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had or overheard around what age is a good age to take your kids. They may not all become pixie dusting fanboy addicts who visit WDW multiple times a year but they are still going and a large portion are still happy with it. I've met nobody who thinks it's affordable or a bargain. That's nothing new and isn't stopping people from going.

 

[GoofGoof]

There's a word that's been creeping around the discussion here for the past couple days that hasn't appeared yet; value.

The Disney theme parks used to give guests value for their money.

Here's how Walt Disney Productions saw value.
View attachment 225522

What is interesting is that historically the parks were downright cheap. Pre-Eisner era at least.

I also think there's been a change at least for WDW from focus on return guests to more one time shots. DLR is still primarily a locals park run more with an emphasis on return visitors. With the massive growth at WDW in the 80s/90s transforming the resort from more of a daily visit park to a week long vacation they are a lot less reliant on repeat customers or locals. That's also why we see shows and events stick around longer at WDW. The return cycle is much longer so things tend to linger longer. For locals and regular visitors (like a lot of us here) it feels stale at times but a lot of people will be seeing some of the dated shows for the 1sr or 2nd time even if they have been around for years or decades.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

For as many of us who don't find the same value, WDW isn't exactly hurting. So someone still finds value in it.

For decades, Disney made sure the tide would not turn against them. Now they are brazenly daring it too.

 

[RSoxNo1]

At which point do you pull a Kanye and create your own sense of fashion?

I could see Martin wearing Leather jogging pants and a tank top on the runway at London fashion week.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I could see Martin wearing Leather jogging pants and a tank top on the runway at London fashion week.

That my Sunday Morning Workout outfit for my pranc...um, jogging around Lake Eola.

 

[Kman101]

For decades, Disney made sure the tide would not turn against them. Now they are brazenly daring it too.

I don't disagree but it hasn't yet.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I don't disagree but it hasn't yet.

Personally they (finally) have several projects forthcoming that I'm extremely excited for.

 

[GoofGoof]

For decades, Disney made sure the tide would not turn against them. Now they are brazenly daring it too.

Definitely in the past decade to 15 years up until this year. Very little added and constant price increases. They seemed to be testing the breaking point.

Personally they (finally) have several projects forthcoming that I'm extremely excited for.

Agreed. It seems like maybe TWDC has finally decided to invest significant money in the swamps again. The only question is will the price increases accelerate when some of these projects come online or will we just see the normal annual increases (which are steep enough already).

 

[ford91exploder]

Unless you are a travel agent now too I don't know how you would come across enough first time visitors to quantify that most new visitors are not happy with WDW.

It's not just nostalgia they sell. WDW has become a right of passage for many kids. That's not changing. I have young kids and I can tell you that the vast majority of their friend's families have either been to WDW or are planning a trip in the near future. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had or overheard around what age is a good age to take your kids. They may not all become pixie dusting fanboy addicts who visit WDW multiple times a year but they are still going and a large portion are still happy with it. I've met nobody who thinks it's affordable or a bargain. That's nothing new and isn't stopping people from going.

Having an Elementary school Teacher in a small town as one's far better mannered and looking half puts us in contact with lots of Disney first timers not as much as a travel agent of course but enough for a reasonable sample size and the WOW cant wait for our NEXT trip is not heard very often any longer 5 years ago it was the majority opinion so even the 'Normals' at some level perceive the difference in that crowds are larger and there is less to do in the parks due to attraction closures and entertainment cutbacks.

The condition of the resorts does not help too often I hear ratty or moth eaten as the description and we know this is true.

We can argue why this is the case but it IS the case.

When will the inflection point come I dont know but it WILL come If Disney keeps downgrading the experience

P.S. Normals are people who have no idea of who Ub Iwerks was or any other issue we obsess about here

 

[GoofGoof]

Having an Elementary school Teacher in a small town as one's far better mannered and looking half puts us in contact with lots of Disney first timers not as much as a travel agent of course but enough for a reasonable sample size and the WOW cant wait for our NEXT trip is not heard very often any longer 5 years ago it was the majority opinion so even the 'Normals' at some level perceive the difference in that crowds are larger and there is less to do in the parks due to attraction closures and entertainment cutbacks.

The condition of the resorts does not help too often I hear ratty or moth eaten as the description and we know this is true.

We can argue why this is the case but it IS the case.

When will the inflection point come I dont know but it WILL come If Disney keeps downgrading the experience

P.S. Normals are people who have no idea of who Ub Iwerks was or any other issue we obsess about here

Here's what I will say to that. You are always looking for a negative spin so perhaps when you do hear a complaint you amplify that into "everyone" hates Disney World. Sometimes you hear what you want to hear. Don't take it too personally, but I find it hard to take you seriously with some of the extreme opinions you have.

I don't doubt that some people will come back with a negative opinion. That's always been the case. I remember my parent's friends telling them not to waste their money on a trip to WDW when I was a kid in the 80s. I wanted to kill them...luckily my parents didn't listen. Like I said before, I don't know anyone who has said they thought WDW was a bargain or a great deal. Almost everyone complains about the price...as they hand over their Visa or MC. Most of the people I know had positive experiences overall. A lot of people figure as long as the kids have a blast it's a worthwhile trip and Disney does a great job with photo opportunities and souvenirs that kids love.

Most of the normals have no way of knowing that rides are closed or effects are broken. They just go and have a good time and complain about the cost later. The one area I have heard more consistent complaints on is FP+ booking. Mostly just people regretting not booking their FP earlier even when in a lot of cases they were advised they should have.

 

[Kman101]

Personally they (finally) have several projects forthcoming that I'm extremely excited for.

Me as well. And I'm sure you're aware of things coming the rest of us aren't.

People on here may be disenchanted with what they're doing, a lot of their decisions haven't thrilled me, but for the handful of us, there's thousands more people who still eat up what they do.

 

[Kman101]

Here's what I will say to that. You are always looking for a negative spin so perhaps when you do hear a complaint you amplify that into "everyone" hates Disney World. Sometimes you hear what you want to hear. Don't take it too personally, but I find it hard to take you seriously with some of the extreme opinions you have.

I don't doubt that some people will come back with a negative opinion. That's always been the case. I remember my parent's friends telling them not to waste their money on a trip to WDW when I was a kid in the 80s. I wanted to kill them...luckily my parents didn't listen. Like I said before, I don't know anyone who has said they thought WDW was a bargain or a great deal. Almost everyone complains about the price...as they hand over their Visa or MC. Most of the people I know had positive experiences overall. A lot of people figure as long as the kids have a blast it's a worthwhile trip and Disney does a great job with photo opportunities and souvenirs that kids love.

Most of the normals have no way of knowing that rides are closed or effects are broken. They just go and have a good time and complain about the cost later. The one area I have heard more consistent complaints on is FP+ booking. Mostly just people regretting not booking their FP earlier even when in a lot of cases they were advised they should have.

Nailed it, especially the first paragraph.

And I just knew it would fuel him, with what Spirit just posted about spending.

 

[Kman101]

Definitely in the past decade to 15 years up until this year. Very little added and constant price increases. They seemed to be testing the breaking point.

Agreed. It seems like maybe TWDC has finally decided to invest significant money in the swamps again. The only question is will the price increases accelerate when some of these projects come online or will we just see the normal annual increases (which are steep enough already).

And just how much will it cost when a lot of these things are finally online by 2019-2023 ....

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Perhaps Disney is developing concerns over attractions depicting 'real' places like New York turned into warzones. Considering the terrorism, violence, and international tensions in the real world, the board may prefer to invest in pure escapism.

I visit Walt Disney World because, for a brief moment in time, I seek to escape the stress of my daily routine and issues of the day. While I am away, I neither read the newspaper nor watch news segments on television. I would rather not spend 2 minutes and 30 seconds on a simulator that showcases any kind of attack on New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles (e.g., Iron Man Experience). To me, attractions like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and Splash Mountain epitomize E-Ticket storytelling for the whole family.

 

[nevol]

I have been sourcing (or trying) an explosive tale about the future of ... (God, don't make me regret posting this ..) Marvel in Disney Parks.

When being apprised of certain things about D23's Expo and the no-Marvel announcement for the second time in three years and then hearing other comments about the future of Anaheim's proposed (because that's all it is at this point ... although I suppose you could use 'stalled' or 'dead in the water' etc.) Eastern Gateway entry and infrastructure, there seemed to be something else not being said.

And it would appear it involves the future use of Marvel properties in Disney's parks (please, please, please don't start 78 pages on your belief Disney and UNI are negotiating UNI's unconditional surrender or any such crap here -- I am already about 16 pages behind) and ... I don't wish to say more because I am not a rumormonger. I am not someone who likes to start rumors. I like to report news or things I am sure of at present time. This isn't one of those situations. But there are some troubling signs about things a lot of you are taking for granted.

I know that doesn't say much. What can I do? I can tell you that Marvel attractions that have been budgeted and started are absolutely happening (things like GotG: Peter Quill's Amazing 1983 Day at WDW where his Mommy, since she was dying of cancer, let him order the steak at the Poly's Tangaroa Terrace and ... HKDL's Tears of a Clown: Buzz Lightyear Gets Removed By Marvel Ants and John Lasseter Goes on a Drunken Binge and Trashes the best suite at the HKDL Hotel). But all those other things ... well, remember at various points of time (the 1990s Disney Decade ... all those 2007-08 era WDW projects etc.) when things were said to be happening? I wouldn't bet your life savings on them. Again, I am attempting to determine what is fact, what is possible and ... what is entertaining fiction.

The tale being spat up sounds plausible, but that doesn't mean it is happening (much like Indy at DAK). I just don't wish to post more until some clarity is achieved.

Sorry.

Please tell me marvel is cancelled. Then when Chappie is gone, we can clean up the guardians mess.

 

[nevol]

I am not saying more without knowing more. I think I need to be more like @marni1971 (well, except for the fashion sense ... no one wants to ever dress like a UK tourist in the swamps!) and just be evasive.

I think your post sums up what I am saying.

Half a marvel universe! All or none arguably better, though none is ideal. So we get half the implementation after eastern gateway falls apart and tower is destroyed. brilliant!

 

[Kman101]

Sounds like California may not get Marvel after all? Doesn't seem they got the boost they wanted from Guardians.

Maybe I've just had a long day but I'm having trouble deciphering Spirit's latest posts ...

 

[WDWTank]

When did all this misery of "bad management" begin at Walt Disney World? When did the effects start to trickle in? Elaborate history lesson please or I could get a pm
@WDW1974

 

[WDWTank]

Sounds like California may not get Marvel after all? Doesn't seem they got the boost they wanted from Guardians.

Maybe I've just had a long day but I'm having trouble deciphering Spirit's latest posts ...

The irony is that The Hollywood Tower Hotel is located in California. They got what they deserved, less care for attractions, less respect from patrons in return.........Justice will be served....

 

[lazyboy97o]

When did all this misery of "bad management" begin at Walt Disney World? When did the effects start to trickle in? Elaborate history lesson please or I could get a pm
@WDW1974

Shouldn't that be a decision you make for yourself?