ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
I don't need to look for stuff it just sits there screaming for attention.
As to Spirit's comments on spending. It's always nice to have an insider confirm what Disney told the investment community.
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A Spirited 15 Rounds ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
I don't need to look for stuff it just sits there screaming for attention.
As to Spirit's comments on spending. It's always nice to have an insider confirm what Disney told the investment community.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
When did all this misery of "bad management" begin at Walt Disney World? When did the effects start to trickle in? Elaborate history lesson pleaseor I could get a pm
@WDW1974
The short answer is after Frank Wells untimely death. Disney as a company has always run best when a creative and a numbers guy run the company. Walt and Roy, Michael and Frank
Without Frank to do the numbers Eisner made a series of disastrous business decisions (hiring Iger was one). The Ovitz and Katzenberg debacles among others. Listening to the 'strategic planning' group.
The book Disney War has the best telling of the story
nevol
Well-Known Member
TOT was far more in line with the Disney formula than Guardians is. E-tickets often give us a brush with death, an experience we survive. Tower gave us a supernatural/haunt theme, a richly detailed show experience, and a runaway elevator that we survive. Guardians? We are never the ones in danger; we help others break out of a prison, and we are never being attacked. other than a crazy ride system, we don't overcome any near death experience. We don't earn any reassurance. We just go in, ha ha ha, come out, move on to the next. That's the biggest unspoken issue with Disney California Adventure; it is a bunch of "adventures" that seem to try to be more character/linear storytelling driven, more communal, but they don't speak to aspirational design or survival. Just a bunch of "fun" stuff that falls flat with no deeper meaning.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
If, for whatever reason, Disney doesn't build a Marvel Land somewhere, they are far, far more foolish then I ever could have imagined. And that's saying something.
Honestly, Marvel Land should have started construction in 2010 or 2011. It is one of the three top franchises in ALL of pop culture, and for the last decade the most consistently successful.
Honestly, Marvel Land should have started construction in 2010 or 2011. It is one of the three top franchises in ALL of pop culture, and for the last decade the most consistently successful.
nevol
Well-Known Member
Yup. Disneyland Paris was the height of imagineering. That, Indy, and Twilight Zone Tower of Terror. Hardly any innovation since. They just spent too much on the resort in paris, which froze spending elsewhere. Then they got really dishonest; let marketing say whatever they wanted, but spent a fraction on product. Basically all innovation since, even in our current recovery phase, has come from "nifty" (convoluted) operations, tech, pre-arrival planning. The parks are run by marketeers, not imagineers. People who think the intuitive storytelling interface of the magic kingdom needs a silly smart phone app to stay relevant, when really all this does is detract from the visual storytelling, wayfinding, decision-inducing immersive worlds of the theme parks, making people learn fastpass distribution and magic + rules rather than spending that money on actually creating a product people want, are destroying the parks. Also, such a focus on "resorts" and DVC. Everything now needs to be commodifiable, and rides are seen as costly investments that don't make money. Their solution? spend less on them. Except the product that sells is the theme parks and their attractions. They try to cut the head off the snake, control costs at the parks and hope profitability goes up. But without the parks, the rest of the stuff can't sell.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Well said. I too prefer those types of experiences.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
You have a point.
You can still build a bunch o' Marvel. Avoid real settings. Asgard. Wakanda. Knowhere. The Microverse. Kirby that son of a gun up - psychedelic colors and Kirby dots from here until midnight.
Still not enough? Hey, Disney controls the Marvel movies. Let's see some real synergy. Put some fantastic lands in those films. The original comics have enough. The films have already been heading that way - accelerate it.
The idea that in 2020 a Disney park would feature an Avatar land but NOT a Marvel land is pretty close to corporate malpractice.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Those are all things Joe Rhode and the Imagineers would actually want to build.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I don't really have a problem with using the Marvel characters for a land or even having some action sequences in the rides. I'm sure that the GoTG ride at EPCOT will be fun (location aside). Sometimes I do get tired of the shoot em up rides with a lot of loud noise, explosions and violent movements. Maybe I'm just getting old now
They could easily make a land based on Marvel characters that isn't just a handful of simulators and a gift shop. Even with Avatar Disney was able to make a simulator feel like so much more with a good backstory and build up to the actual ride.doctornick
Well-Known Member
Comments like this come up a lot and I don't really get them. How much would you expect a decent but unremarkable hotel/motel in a prime location to cost? $100 a night seems pretty much in line for an affordable non-roach motel place near a major tourist attraction. This isn't a roadside place on the side of a desolate highway.
TiggerDad
Well-Known Member
See that's the thing. I summed up your post in one sentence, but we're not all following a Spirit thread to get the info in bite sized packages. People want the exposition, the stories, the evocative words that paint a picture. Drop some more crumbs, Spirit.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I don't quite get it either. Sounds to me like the plans are delayed until they finalize the parking and eastern gateway situation. That's perhaps annoying -- or good depending on your stance on Marvel stuff -- but not really that big a deal. Star Wars is still coming soon to the resort at least, so they'll be something new for the masses.
Personally, I don't get why they don't just build more Marvel stuff on the parking lot next to the GotG tower and use the Bug's Land plot. That should be enough space for 2 additional rides and should provide a nice sized land. Then (the rest of) Hollywood Land can continue to exist just fine with its own theme. When the gateway situation gets resolved, then can then address the backlot area and beyond.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Also, a Marvel/superhero land doesn't have to be violent or destructive. Look at how The Incredibles dealt with the genre and was more about family squabbles than defeating the bad guy (though, yes, there was that too). You can make a ride involving people with superpowers that doesn't level half of New York city. An Iron Man ride can be about testing new technology. An Ant-Man ride could involve shrinking and having a HISTK adventure to re-grow. Thur could take you on a tour of Asgard, etc. I mean, I wouldn't expect that to be the plot of such rides but there's no reason that a superhero ride can't be escapist and non-violent, just like a ghost house like Haunted Mansion can be fun rather than frightening.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
Wait or just do something else? Haha, where's the drama in pragmatism? We need 'splosions!
HMF
Well-Known Member
I would say Disney never should have bought Marvel.
matt9112
Well-Known Member
from an overall hotel stand point any off site hotel is nicer at that point. think Springhill suits or a nice holiday inn and those both have free breakfast! your paying for the Disneyficarion of a motel. at the moderate price point it's even harder to justify. 180ish gets you any of the high end downtown Disney accommodations. (granted with a parking fee attached) on Disney property you get a motel with a nice pool. and look I love CBR and riverside but I don't think there that good. deluxe is probably the most over priced. I got dolphin resort rooms for 175 + 25 a night fee so that's 200 flat but it doesn't have hidden mickeys? and yeah there's a parking fee so let's be fair 220 a night. in the never available limited time annual pass holder specials you might get 260 at a deluxe and goof look finding a room. opinion here but I think the deluxe resorts are a good 300 a night every day of year deal....not what there asking i would also say moderates should be 150 not 180 and the value resorts should do 79 all day.
but obviously I don't run the place. shareholders would never vote for me!
make money on tickets and merch dont club us over the head for a place to sleep.
TinkerBelle8878
Well-Known Member
This might just be pulling an idea out of thin air, but could the Marvel issue be with rights sold to Disney vs original creators (Stan Lee, etc) not wanting this stuff in theme parks more than it already is in Universal? Do the creators retain any rights over images or 'worlds' they created pre Disney ownership?
flynnibus
Premium Member
150/night will get me a room with two queen beds and often free breakfast.
Pop can't match the beds/room... let alone the motel vs hotel
It's a motel masquerading as a world class DISNEY product.
nevol
Well-Known Member
My hope is that summer of heroes just flopped. They seem not to care about guests, or about theme park design fundamentals, until their seasonal events and/or attractions flop. I doubt that's what we have on our hands, they seem confident that Guardians was a success, but maybe that is what has changed internally? Frankly I want Guardians/Summer to flop, and Pixar Fest to flop, so that Chappie gets fired. Why is Parks and Resorts/Imagineering so volatile and at the will of these inexperienced executives cycled in from elsewhere? Every half-to-full decade, some newb comes in and destroys the place for somebody else to come clean up.
UpAllNight
Well-Known Member
You guys do realise it's possible to go to Florida, stay somewhere like Kissimmee or International Drive at Pointe Orlando, use Ubers etc and pay like a third of what you would staying on Disney, and still have an awesome time?
Because to me if you're moaning about price, yet not exploring these options, you're just moaning and not actually that bothered about paying it.
Because to me if you're moaning about price, yet not exploring these options, you're just moaning and not actually that bothered about paying it.