A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[shortstop]

Pixar Pier was a shock to me. Something I had heard about, but as a temporary overlay deal. No idea how that makes sense. As to the other things, I will tell you what I know when I get to the Expo talk and why you didn't hear any Marvel talk beyond a tease.

Micechat's update today says they didn't announce Marvel because they want to wait until they get the Eastern parking garage project going. Is this accurate from what you have heard?

 

[mickEblu]

For me, the Pixar Pier announcement was one of the most frightening announcements made at D23 this year. The intent of Paradise Pier is to capture the spirit of the Victorian boardwalks that were once found along the California coast. Beginning in 2009, when transformation of the Pier began, the cheap, roadside carnival, Six Flags elements were removed in favor of a nostalgic, early 20th century design. I remember greatly appreciating the removal of the Man Hat N' Beach sign because it was tacky and far from anything you would expect to see at a Disney park. Although budget cuts affected additional details around Mickey's Fun Wheel, overall, the Pier was greatly improved and, I believe, transports guests to a bygone era. Yes, California Screamin' should be a wooden roller coaster, but that is another conversation for another thread.

The transformation of Paradise Pier to Pixar Pier further solidifies the shift from themed lands with attractions that are faithfully fitting of the theme to IP immersion. Moreover, Parks & Resorts is now engaging in full-out corporate branding with the use of the Pixar name, rather than theming to a specific property. Gone are the days of lands that transport us to previous times and other places with a variety of attractions. The direction of Parks & Resorts is to name areas after subsidiaries of TWDC. The formula is clearly displayed on the chalkboard, full subsidiary immersion to drive consumer product sales to targeted demographics.

Walt continues to be forgotten. Each of these executives needs to spend at least three days at the Walt Disney Family Museum to understand the legacy that is being destroyed.

I like to call them Acquisition lands. IPs just being placed into lands that fit their theme Is not enough anymore like Indy in Adventureland. Single IP lands are not even enough. No they have to make sure everyone understands what companies they have acquired in the least imaginative ways possible all while throwing theme to the wind.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Good question especially since at TDS the corporate imperative to stuff the parks like a turkey with studios IP does not exist

I don't think that's true at all. The corporate motivation is "safe". They definitely gravitate towards familiarity and the guests love characters.

 

[HMF]

For me, the Pixar Pier announcement was one of the most frightening announcements made at D23 this year. The intent of Paradise Pier is to capture the spirit of the Victorian boardwalks that were once found along the California coast. Beginning in 2009, when transformation of the Pier began, the cheap, roadside carnival, Six Flags elements were removed in favor of a nostalgic, early 20th century design. I remember greatly appreciating the removal of the Man Hat N' Beach sign because it was tacky and far from anything you would expect to see at a Disney park. Although budget cuts affected additional details around Mickey's Fun Wheel, overall, the Pier was greatly improved and, I believe, transports guests to a bygone era. Yes, California Screamin' should be a wooden roller coaster, but that is another conversation for another thread.

The transformation of Paradise Pier to Pixar Pier further solidifies the shift from themed lands with attractions that are faithfully fitting of the theme to IP immersion. Moreover, Parks & Resorts is now engaging in full-out corporate branding with the use of the Pixar name, rather than theming to a specific property. Gone are the days of lands that transport us to previous times and other places with a variety of attractions. The direction of Parks & Resorts is to name areas after subsidiaries of TWDC. The formula is clearly displayed on the chalkboard, full subsidiary immersion to drive consumer product sales to targeted demographics.

Walt continues to be forgotten. Each of these executives needs to spend at least three days at the Walt Disney Family Museum to understand the legacy that is being destroyed.

I am sorry but Walt would likely have never signed off on the concept of Paradise Pier or any pier for that matter.

 

[asianway]

Yes I know that but you said that the push for studio IP isn't there when it is. Storm Rider got replaced by Nemo. Toy Story got put in the American Waterfront and there will be an entire land dedicated to Frozen which really dosn't have a nautical theme what so ever.

You and I must have been watching a different movie

 

[ford91exploder]

I don't think that's true at all. The corporate motivation is "safe". They definitely gravitate towards familiarity and the guests love characters.

Any Disney character is IP, What I'm driving at here is TDS tends to prefer characters from Disney's animated universe.

TDS has no great love for SW/Marvel characters which is what Burbank is trying to stuff into places it does not belong in.

Pixar/WDAS characters yes those they do LOVE those characters/IP heck they even like Duffy...

 

[Ag11gani]

Any Disney character is IP, What I'm driving at here is TDS tends to prefer characters from Disney's animated universe.

TDS has no great love for SW/Marvel characters which is what Burbank is trying to stuff into places it does not belong in.

Pixar/WDAS characters yes those they do LOVE those characters/IP heck they even like Duffy...

Yes that is true but you said studio IP and WDAS and Pixar IPs are studio IPs.

 

[brb1006]

Any Disney character is IP, What I'm driving at here is TDS tends to prefer characters from Disney's animated universe.

TDS has no great love for SW/Marvel characters which is what Burbank is trying to stuff into places it does not belong in.

Pixar/WDAS characters yes those they do LOVE those characters/IP heck they even like Duffy...

Then again Duffy's been at Tokyo and was originally exclusive there for years before heading to the other parks years later. I remember first hearing about him way back in 2009 when the character was mostly unknown to the non-Japanese.

 

[doctornick]

They end up a catch all after the target subject has been talked about but right now it's Shanghai.

It might make more sense if WDW1974 would make a topic with a thread title specific to whatever topic he wants to discuss and then post information/thoughts relative to that topic. It would then tend to stay on that topic. I don't think people would ask him questions about Epcot or whatever if the thread title was something like "Spirit's thoughts on Shanghai Disneyland".

With a generic thread title and given the history of his threads, it's not surprising to see off topic talk quickly develop.

 

[Herbie]

Or we could just shut up, y'know.

Love these posts and think they should be somewhat limited to comments by and questions to Spirit. After so many posts, it reaaally becomes a hassle to sift through info.

 

[Ag11gani]

Then again Duffy's been at Tokyo and was originally exclusive there for years before heading to the other parks years later. I remember first hearing about him way back in 2009 when the character was mostly unknown to the non-Japanese.

Well technically Duffy was created for Once Upon a Toy, but then OLC made up the name Duffy and his backstory.

 

[marni1971]

I don't want to make this a stretch, but in comparison to the first few years of Disneyland Paris where it wasn't popular..

It's been answered, but let me add DLP (EuroDisney) - the park - was popular from the start. Summer 92 and 93 the park was under capacity and over occupancy.

 

[SoManyWasps]

It's been answered, but let me add DLP (EuroDisney) - the park - was popular from the start. Summer 92 and 93 the park was under capacity and over occupancy.

Any insight on how the "DLP in the early 90s was an unpopular money pit" meme came to be? Is it just a gross oversimplification of history?

 

[Phineas]

Any insight on how the "DLP in the early 90s was an unpopular money pit" meme came to be? Is it just a gross oversimplification of history?

I remember comedians of the time calling it "The Emptiest Place on Earth", which is really curious when you actually read into its history.

 

[brb1006]

Any insight on how the "DLP in the early 90s was an unpopular money pit" meme came to be? Is it just a gross oversimplification of history?

I remember comedians of the time calling it "The Emptiest Place on Earth", which is really curious when you actually read into its history.

Even The Simpsons made fun of it in the episode "Itchy & Scratchy Land".

 

[marni1971]

Any insight on how the "DLP in the early 90s was an unpopular money pit" meme came to be? Is it just a gross oversimplification of history?

It is.

The park was wildly successful. Despite some cultural and operational mistakes. Temple of Peril was bought off shelf and storybookland was fast tracked both to try and provide more capacity for summer 93. Space Mountain was brought forward.

The wider resort dragged down the park with it. Too many expensive hotel rooms. All built by 1992 to minimise disruption later, but providing an excess of rooms. As Eisner said about building six hotelsat once "damned if we do and damned if we don't"

There was also less guest spending than anticipated due to opening at the start of the European recession.

The parks profits couldn't shore up the gaping hole the wider resort was making in the interest repayments.

In a nutshell. But we digress.

 

[SoManyWasps]

It is.

The park was wildly successful. Despite some cultural and operational mistakes. Temple of Peril was bought off shelf and storybookland was fast tracked both to try and provide more capacity for summer 93. Space Mountain was brought forward.

The wider resort dragged down the park with it. Too many expensive hotel rooms. All built by 1992 to minimise disruption later, but providing an excess of rooms. As Eisner said about building six hotelsat once "damned if we do and damned if we don't"

There was also less guest spending than anticipated due to opening at the start of the European recession.

The parks profits couldn't shore up the gaping hole the wider resort was making in the interest repayments.

In a nutshell.

Fascinating. It's easy and fun to look at DLP (and DCA) as the big blunder(s) of the Eisner era, but that leaves out a lot of the nuance and background info out of the discussion.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

It is literally impossible to stay on topic when there are so many brought up to begin with. Unless all of Spirit's world travels somehow connect with D23 and WDW in some MCU-esque manner that has yet to be revealed.

 

[jakeman]

The irony of request to stay on topic in a thread about Shanghai in the WDW News and Rumors section seems to be lost.

 

[fgmnt]

The irony of request to stay on topic in a thread about Shanghai in the WDW News and Rumors section seems to be lost.

The thesis of the thread is how all of P&R development relates to the swamps and vice-versa. The story being told to us in this spirit thread just happens to start with SDL.