A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[the.dreamfinder]

And that isn't indicative of a problem in management? It can be argued that lots of films have reshoots, but to have them as extensive as R1 and especially Solo is unusual, which is why their budgets skyrocketed. And what happened with Solo's directors was nearly unprecedented. Films change directors during pre-production, but to fire them 2/3 of the way into shooting is just insane.

Even just fiscally, how does one screw up a Star Wars film? Somehow they have managed with Solo. It isn't even going to make back its budget, let alone it's total cost (including promotion).

I will not be surprised if we hear about Kennedy leaving to "spend more time with her family" in the forseeable future. "An okay, fun film" that isn't even going to make back its base budget is not what Disney and its shareholders expect from a 300M+ investment.

Cue the “Kevin Feige moves to Lucasfilm” rumors.

 

[Rteetz]

Incorrect. 148M is the TOTAL - including the 101M domestic. That was what was reported earlier. According to up to the minute reports, it is ending the weekend with 65M outside of the US. The film is making far less than R1.



And that's where our conversation ends, because I'm not going 'round that bend again. Our argument is because I am talking logically about the business ramifcations backed up with evidence, and all you can say is "I like the movies so there is no problem". That's great you think that, but that's not how the movie industry views things, period.

Yes my mistake I thought the $155 opening number from Rogue One was the total but it appears to be only domestic and I cannot find a total opening weekend number from Rogue One.

I disagree on the second part though as you said you believe Kathleen Kennedy won't be around much longer because you feel due to reshoots and directors changes while yes uncommon in the way they happened doesn't mean she will be gone. If it was indeed such a problem why isn't she gone already? I am not the only one who is liking the movies they are putting out either. Solo bomb or not LucasFilm is still making money. We definitely need to agree to disagree on the Kathleen Kennedy should be fired aspect as we don't see eye to eye there.

 

[AEfx]

You realize Deadpool 2 just came out last week, right? And Avengers: IW just sucked up a ton of money in the last month from the same casual moviegoer audience that flocks to Star Wars films.

There's no doubt that Solo is a SW bomb financially, but it's had by far and away the toughest competition of any Star Wars film.

Edit: I'll also add that Jumanji's unexpected success had a significant impact on TLJ's legs. I don't recall either TFA or RO having much of anything big around them (feel free to correct).

It had no new competition. Even if Deadpool and Avengers didn't exist, the news still wouldn't be good.

And Jumanj? Ugh, I'm not going back there. I mean, that was just utterly embarassing what it did to TLJ.

I just think you don't have perspective - Star Wars should unquestionably be ruling the box office, and its not. And that is a problem for Disney.

In any case, I really have discussed as much as I care to spend the time on this. You guys are free to make all the excuses you want, LOL.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't blame anyone because I have liked the movies and many others have. I think that is where our argument issue is. You see a problem with management and I don't. Star Wars is still making a ton of money and unless episode 9 also bombs I don't see Kathleen Kennedy leaving soon.

Process and result are not the same. Liking the outcome doesn’t negate a poor process.

 

[Rteetz]

Process and result are not the same. Liking the outcome doesn’t negate a poor process.

So Kathleen Kennedy has produced one bomb so far. That means she should be fired? Yes The Last Jedi performed less than The Force Awakens but it didn't bomb by any means. As others have said I also think there are several factors as to why Solo is underperforming.

 

[doctornick]

It had no new competition. Even if Deadpool and Avengers didn't exist, the news still wouldn't be good.

I said Solo bombed, so I'm not sure what your are arguing. But it's undeniable that Solo had stronger competition than other SW films. I mean, nothing was out around TFA. For Solo to be in theaters a week after a major superhero movie (one that made $40+M this weekend) debuted obviously hurt compared to other SW films. It certainly is only a part of the underwhelming box office, but it's not insignificant.

And Jumanj? Ugh, I'm not going back there. I mean, that was just utterly embarassing what it did to TLJ.

I just think you don't have perspective - Star Wars should unquestionably be ruling the box office, and its not. And that is a problem for Disney.

Okay, now here is where I will strongly disagree. There is no a priori reason why a Star Wars film will unquestionably "rule the box office". Jumanji captured the public's consciousness and drew people in. That undeniably hurt TLJ's legs -- why that has to be a black mark against TLJ is beyond me. It's possible for other films to be released and liked by audiences and to compete for box office revenue. TLJ got some stiffer competition than TFA and RO; it happens and you can't just ignore the impact on box office numbers. Sometimes a movie gets an unlucky draw because another movie breaks out; it happens.

Regardless, prior to Solo, all of the Disney made films did "rule the box office". I mean, making a billion dollars for a film, especially with little enthusiasm in the second largest market, is not a small task.

 

[NearTheEars]

While domestically Solo has been bad globally I believe I saw the number was $148 million which is only $7 million behind Rogue One, not that bad really.

I don't blame anyone because I have liked the movies and many others have. I think that is where our argument issue is. You see a problem with management and I don't. Star Wars is still making a ton of money and unless episode 9 also bombs I don't see Kathleen Kennedy leaving soon.

I believe the $148M was a projection. It only made in the $60s.

For what it’s worth I enjoyed Solo. Thought it was a lot of fun.

 

[AEfx]

Cue the “Kevin Feige moves to Lucasfilm” rumors.

Nah, you are close - but when they show Kennedy the door, er, I mean, when she "steps back to spend more time with her family", the SW fanbase is going to be chanting one name - Dave Filoni. Personally I have no real attachment to him, but he certainly is seen as the one who salvaged the PT by filling in the blanks with the Clone Wars, and even though Rebels has been a bit polarizing, among the fan community, they certainly love him.

 

[AEfx]

There is no a priori reason why a Star Wars film will unquestionably "rule the box office".

How many live-action Star Wars films have there been? How many have bombed so hard at the box office that they won't even recoup their production costs, let alone P&R?

It's almost like you would have to try to screw that up.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So Kathleen Kennedy has produced one bomb so far. That means she should be fired? Yes The Last Jedi performed less than The Force Awakens but it didn't bomb by any means. As others have said I also think there are several factors as to why Solo is underperforming.

You keep avoiding the issue of process. Coming to rely on expensive, 11th hour fixes is not good leadership.

 

[Rteetz]

How many live-action Star Wars films have there been? How many have bombed so hard at the box office that they won't even recoup their production costs, let alone P&R?

It's almost like you would have to try to screw that up.

I don't believe they tried to make a bad film as many people have really enjoyed it and reviews are in the positive range. Obviously its not performing well but again many factors at play.

 

[Rteetz]

You keep avoiding the issue of process. Coming to rely on expensive, 11th hour fixes is not good leadership.

I am not sure how I am avoiding that. Yes changes and reshoots are expensive but have they not paid for them with their films up until Solo? Solo is the only bomb at this point and I am not sure that is enough to fire Kathleen Kennedy. Unless something seriously goes wrong with episode 9 I don't see a reason she should be fired yet.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I am not sure how I am avoiding that. Yes changes and reshoots are expensive but have they not paid for them with their films up until Solo? Solo is the only bomb at this point and I am not sure that is enough to fire Kathleen Kennedy. Unless something seriously goes wrong with episode 9 I don't see a reason she should be fired yet.

You keep only talking about outcome, that is how you are avoiding it. You are dismissing process as irrelevant because you liked the movie and the others made money. Even the other factors that you peg as important to the underperformance are the result of leadership and process.

This is also Disney, where a project being very, very profitable can be a big disappointment because it was supposed to be very, very, very profitable.

 

[Rteetz]

You keep only talking about outcome, that is how you are avoiding it. You are dismissing process as irrelevant because you liked the movie and the others made money. Even the other factors that you peg as important to the underperformance are the result of leadership and process.

This is also Disney, where a project being very, very profitable can be a big disappointment because it was supposed to be very, very, very profitable.

Okay got it. The outcome should partially be because of the process though shouldn't it? If the outcome was good was the process bad? I am not saying the process didn't have issues as it certainly did but until now the movies have been successful and very profitable. I am still firmly on the side that Kathleen Kennedy shouldn't be fired yet.

 

[AEfx]

I don't believe they tried to make a bad film

Just who in hell is claiming they did?

 

[Rteetz]

Just who in hell is claiming they did?

You said it seems like they tried to screw up with Solo.

I will be done now. Apparently my opinion is not welcome in this thread as I like the new Star Wars films and Kathleen Kennedy.

 

[Mike S]

And this is where there is a great divide. I don't think there is a big problem with the leadership at LucasFilm.

By many accounts Solo is a fun good film and written by the Kasdan's who do really know Solo and the Star Wars lore. Since Disney took over things haven't been incredibly smooth sailing, as most of the films have had several reshoots and director changes.

Wouldn’t that point to a leadership problem or am I crazy?

 

[Rteetz]

Wouldn’t that point to a leadership problem or am I crazy?

I get what you’re saying but until Solo there hasn’t been any performance issues unless I missed something. Not everything is always smooth sailing in the film industry. Personally I don’t think Kathleen Kennedy is a problem at this moment. If something like episode 9 has serious issues and underperforms I certainly could change my opinion on that.

 

[MisterPenguin]

After all, Ant-Man had the same mid-stream switch in directors like Solo did. It happens to studios.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It should...

The CinemaScore of A- is an indication it has 'legs' (the whole purpose of the CinemaScore is to evalute long term success based on initial polling of the audience). Same with the PostTrack's "Recommend" score of 73% (lower than TLJ's 82%, but still pretty good).

The users' rating on RottenTomates has gone from a 55 on Thursday to a 59 now. IMDB's user's score went from 70 to 72. As people see the movie, they're giving it a rating much higher than the initial haters who want to burn the whole franchise down and start anew, and so, those scores have been going up.

The critical scores haven't moved, and they're OK, but not as good as... ready for it?... as well liked as TLJ was among critics.

While it's possible the Box Office will be terribly weak, it's also possible for it to have legs with word of mouth. Remember, we had haters doing a jig with how poorly Spider-Man Homecoming and TLJ was doing... initially. But then, over time, they made their money's worth.

No one should be writing an obituary yet.

And the infamous users' score on Rotten Tomatoes went up another point again to 60%.