A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[AEfx]

Great, another “Hollywood accounting” discussion. It’s a tax avoidance scheme. If you never post a gross profit, the corporation which holds the film’s copyright is never taxed. Any monies the film makes are sent to predetermined parties, studio, investors, actors and crew, as expenses so revenues are never greater than expenses.

This isn’t hard.

These films do make money, but it’s only the taxman, and some suckers, who don’t see a profit. TFA made money on its investment and so will TLJ. Saying they’re failures is preposterous.

Conversely, some people don't understand that when a film makes grosses $1B dollars, it doesn't actually *make* $1B.

In the case of TLJ, it needed to hit about $800M gross in order to break even when you account for theater percentages, advertising, costs of making the film, etc. Clearly, it will make that, and what happens after is profit.

That's why the stupid articles today showing up saying "New Star Wars films surpass the $4B amount Disney paid for Lucasfilm!" like it means anything are really so stupid and clickbaity. I still firmly believe that it's the best investment the WDC ever made, but that doesn't change how relatively meaningless that is.

 

[RandySavage]

Really? I quite liked both scores, TFA in particular. I will admit that TLJ was more of a ‘best of Star Wars’ soundtrack and didn’t really tread new ground, but I also felt that he had already introduced so many themes in TFA that it would have been hard to develop more, particularly with such a focus on Luke and Leia in this movie.

Rogue One is definitely weak, but like you said, Giachinno had two weeks to do it. I believe that Desplat (Deathly Hallows) was the original composer, though, and so I was happy with the switch, even with the time crunch.

I'm on the opposite side: Rogue One's soundtrack is easily my favorite of the three new films. I remember at least one new piece that I thought "this music is cool" in the theater (the unusual one when they first cut to Jeddah) and Michael G.'s use of classic bits was impeccable.

Whereas, there was nothing of note for me in either TFA or TLJ scores (aside from any classic Williams beats).

 

[bclane]

I thought TLJ was fantastic and even better the second time I saw it. To each their own but I love what Rian Johnson did and not only can I not wait for IX, I am even more excited for his trilogy after this one is wrapped up than I was before. I haven’t felt this excited for Star Wars since I saw ESB on opening night in the theater back in 1980. Many of my Gen X friends feel the same way. I wish you all loved it as much as me, but hopefully the next one ties it all together for you. Thank God I loved it or I would be pretty depressed right now I think.

 

[Nubs70]

I thought TLJ was fantastic and even better the second time I saw it. To each their own but I love what Rian Johnson did and not only can I not wait for IX, I am even more excited for his trilogy after this one is wrapped up than I was before. I haven’t felt this excited for Star Wars since I saw ESB on opening night in the theater back in 1980. Many of my Gen X friends feel the same way. I wish you all loved it as much as me, but hopefully the next one ties it all together for you. Thank God I loved it or I would be pretty depressed right now I think.

From a fellow Gen X, it sucked.

 

[bclane]

From a fellow Gen X, it sucked.

Well at least we are free to express our opinions and of course agree to disagree...

 

[njDizFan]

I know this is a really odd idea...but how about...people...having...opinions. And, I dunno, voicing them. And debating them?

I mean, when did "well, box office" and "critic scores" become a valid response to direct critiques of the STORY?

"Well, you are wrong because x and y website says you are!"

What nonsense.

There have ALWAYS been ways to game these websites. From scraping to bots to whatever.

How about people address the points being made? And, then...ask the more relevant point. Do you check RT or IMDB or any other online ratings forum BEFORE you go see the movie?

I suspect not. Well, outside of when you are bored and are looking for "critically acclaimed movies" to look up on netflix.

We live in an era when movie tickets are not "expensive", frankly....this was not the case when the first trilogy aired. A trip to the movies was a few times a year, at MOST, experience.

Now, it is every few months. And, if you wait a few months, you can see that "blockbuster" on (insert streaming service).

It isn't the same market...and critics play far less of a role.

Critics mean something when you CARE about where your entertainment dollar is going. When you know if you give it a few months, and you can see it free On Demand, you care far less as a consumer...and as a result, critic results mean less.

NONE of this is discussed with the "critics love it" vs "fans hate it" talking points.

It's...far more complex.

Honestly I read your post about 10 times and I still don't understand your point. Are you saying that since where you live movies are inexpensive so critical ratings are meaningless? Also, movies come out quickly through your cable provider so you only see movies a few times a year instead every few months(isn't that the same thing)?

Anyway critical response may be even more relevant then it every was, word of mouth still drives sales but with so much more entertainment available people want to make sure they are getting their money's worth.

20-30 years ago people listened to a handful of critics(Leonard Maltin, Siskel and Ebert etc.) and few newspapers to get reviews. Now we have 100s of reviews available at our fingertips and often an aggregate score will be a decent indication of quality. I know many people believe art in all of it's forms is completely subjective...when in fact it's not. There lies underlying principals that can be measured. Then again nobody's' opinion, even if they are correct, should dictate your enjoyment in any given art form.

 

[wdisney9000]

From a fellow Gen X, it sucked.

Honestly asking, what would you have preferred or what type of story line do you think would have made it better for you? I only ask because I have several friends/family members that feel the same way you do and Im genuinely curious to hear others opinions/thoughts.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

There were so many fan theories no matter which avenue they picked many fans would have been disappointed. I think they did a great job.

 

[asianway]

From a fellow Gen X, it sucked.

If someone can do an edit where I just see the throne room scene 15x in a row and roll credits I'd be good

 

[the.dreamfinder]

In case the TLJ discussion is boring you, it appears John Skipper lied about having a substance abuse problem and it was a cover for sexual misconduct at ESPN.
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/...legedly-drinking-dan-lebatard-north-carolina/

 

[Nubs70]

Honestly asking, what would you have preferred or what type of story line do you think would have made it better for you? I only ask because I have several friends/family members that feel the same way you do and Im genuinely curious to hear others opinions/thoughts.

My first issue is with the opening scenes with the mega destroyer:

Imperial General Doofus:

his one liners were worse than something off of Friday night sitcoms. Not the evil master strategist one would envision in such a role.

Leia in Space:

How just how is she supposed to protect herself from the vacuum of space? Must be midichlorian insulation.

How is she able to sub consciously summon force powers when never trained? Luke must be developmentally challenged if he needed many years of training in the force where as Leia and Rey are masters without training.

The Force:

All these years, having the force abilities was a genetic unlearnable attribute, now anyone can have it.

Rey:

She is essentially an inter galactic Honey Boo Boo.


Just some initial thoughts..

 

[bclane]

@Nubs70 please remember that there is a spoiler thread to discuss actual spoilers. Not everyone has seen the movie.

Edit: here it is. At least the stuff you posted about Leia should definitely be discussed in this thread

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...rs-plot-points-revealed-and-discussed.936621/

 

[Travel Junkie]

Imperial General Doofus:

his one liners were worse than something off of Friday night sitcoms. Not the evil master strategist one would envision in such a role.

You should really not be posting details of the movie, but I will address this comment. Some of the corniest phrases I have ever heard are from Star Wars movies. People seem to forget about how bad the dialogue is in these movies. TLJ has some issues but is actually a much more sophisticated film than its predecessors in the saga.

 

[AEfx]

In case the TLJ discussion is boring you, it appears John Skipper lied about having a substance abuse problem and it was a cover for sexual misconduct at ESPN.
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/...legedly-drinking-dan-lebatard-north-carolina/

I picture you waking up every day, jumping out of bed, fingers tingling because you are so eager to google "Disney" and "sex", along with every single person, company, or entity ever associated with them, in hopes of finding some slight connection that you can report because you want so badly for the company to be torn to shreds in some epic sex scandal.

 

[AEfx]

Honestly asking, what would you have preferred or what type of story line do you think would have made it better for you? I only ask because I have several friends/family members that feel the same way you do and Im genuinely curious to hear others opinions/thoughts.

There were so many fan theories no matter which avenue they picked many fans would have been disappointed. I think they did a great job.

This has been debunked over and over, but no one wants to listen.

I personally, along with many who were not happy with it, didn't give a rat (or mouse) behind what the answers to the two central mysteries portrayed in TFA were (both in the film, and all the publicity surrounding it, all engineered by Disney and certainly not invented by fans, like some like to pretend). I didn't care if any crazy theory was correct, I just wanted answers that made sense based on the film that came before. That is not a tall order.

TLJ did the one thing that could irritate the heck out of us - it dismissed the questions entirely, and reduced TFA to one great big nonsensical Mary Sue mess. It's not about wanting our preferred version of events, it was about not expecting a film who's events and reveals made no sense in terms of the entire film that proceeded it.

On it's own, TLJ isn't a bad film. As a sequel to TFA, it completely missed the mark, spat upon it, and then stomped up and down on it for good measure.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I picture you waking up every day, jumping out of bed, fingers tingling because you are so eager to google "Disney" and "sex", along with every single person, company, or entity ever associated with them, in hopes of finding some slight connection that you can report because you want so badly for the company to be torn to shreds in some epic sex scandal.

Perhaps you shouldn’t presuppose my intentions. You think this crap brings me pleasure? I only bring up the stuff immediately relavant to this thread because what’s happened at Disney is reflective of our broader societal problems and they must be discussed if we are to make progress. You seriously think I get glee from this? I don’t.

There are other reasons, which have nothing to do with dethroning Darth Iger or Lord Mucha, but I choose to keep those private.

 

[yeti]

You should really not be posting details of the movie, but I will address this comment. Some of the corniest phrases I have ever heard are from Star Wars movies. People seem to forget about how bad the dialogue is in these movies. TLJ has some issues but is actually a much more sophisticated film than its predecessors in the saga.

I thought the film had its fair share of flaws, but the dialogue was without question the best in the series.

 

[Nubs70]

You should really not be posting details of the movie, but I will address this comment. Some of the corniest phrases I have ever heard are from Star Wars movies. People seem to forget about how bad the dialogue is in these movies. TLJ has some issues but is actually a much more sophisticated film than its predecessors in the saga.

The movie was not a story but a series of episodes.

 

[AEfx]

Perhaps you shouldn’t presuppose my intentions. You think this crap brings me pleasure? I only bring up the stuff immediately relavant to this thread because what’s happened at Disney is reflective of our broader societal problems and they must be discussed if we are to make progress. You seriously think I get glee from this? I don’t.

There are other reasons, which have nothing to do with dethroning Darth Iger or Lord Mucha, but I choose to keep those private.

Sorry man, I'm just being honest about how you are coming across. If that is your intention, I'm afraid you are just adding to the increasing desensitization to the issue that is going on right now.

Especially with stuff like this - it's a link to some sports blog where the guy has no evidence whatsoever, hasn't even talked to anyone who is accusing anyone of anything, and who says he has heard "rumors" about there possibly being some claims against someone who left the company for stated personal problems. Well, in that industry right now, anyone who leaves is going to have rumors about them. It would be one thing if the guy had any evidence of anything, but he doesn't nor does he even pretend to.

So when you say "it appears" that this guy is a sexual harasser, in spite of the above - yeah, it feels like you are really reaching and searching deep for this stuff.

No one thinks sexual harassment is okay. No one thinks that it's not a problem. The world has certainly woken up if they didn't think it was a problem before. But when we start acting like every little rumor is suddenly true, and that alarm whistle is called when no one is actually even being accused of anything, it is leading to the growing perception that people are just getting carried away with all this and want more to be true, as opposed to just reacting to it.

 

[englanddg]

Honestly I read your post about 10 times and I still don't understand your point. Are you saying that since where you live movies are inexpensive so critical ratings are meaningless? Also, movies come out quickly through your cable provider so you only see movies a few times a year instead every few months(isn't that the same thing)?

Anyway critical response may be even more relevant then it every was, word of mouth still drives sales but with so much more entertainment available people want to make sure they are getting their money's worth.

20-30 years ago people listened to a handful of critics(Leonard Maltin, Siskel and Ebert etc.) and few newspapers to get reviews. Now we have 100s of reviews available at our fingertips and often an aggregate score will be a decent indication of quality. I know many people believe art in all of it's forms is completely subjective...when in fact it's not. There lies underlying principals that can be measured. Then again nobody's' opinion, even if they are correct, should dictate your enjoyment in any given art form.

So, since you read it so many times...answer my question that led to the rest of my point.

Do YOU check IMDB or RT before you go see a movie? Do you rigorously seek out critical reviews for every movie before you go to?

I strongly doubt you do, but for the sake of being correct, you likely will say you do, and you know dozens of your friends who do as well.

Word of mouth is far more subtle than a critic's review. In fact, it is what led to the success of Star Wars in the first place, really.

Word of mouth is things like me telling my parents... "Yeah, I don't care if we go see it over the holiday, I already saw it...there is no rush. It wasn't bad, just no rush". So, they don't see it. They don't take their friends, they don't take my grandparents...spins on.

Now...will people go see it? Sure, it's an epic franchise. But, they are not seeing it for the movie, they are seeing it BECAUSE of the franchise.

Now compare that to...Forrest Gump or Roger Rabbit.