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A Spirited 15 Rounds ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Dunston
Well-Known Member
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Oh, absolutely. There are lots of gripes about the game industry that can be had. I don't think anyone disagrees with many of them. What tends to happen in discussions like this, though, is that when folks run out of explanations of why they are too cheap to pay what these games should cost to begin with, they start in on their general gripes about being a gamer, like anyone who understands the basic economics of what is going on is some shill for the industry as a whole (note: I don't think that is you for bringing this up separately like you have). There are definitely issues with modern gaming. The one you are referring to is really that release dates are set for games by when the marketing teams want it out, not by how long they take to develop.
That said, using Super Metroid as an example - the game was released 23 years ago for $50USD, for a sprite based game with a few dozen people who worked on it for one dedicated platform. A quarter century later, people are expecting to get a game like BF2, which takes many hundreds of people to make, which are far more complex in every conceivable way in terms of technology, and in terms of technologies working together, for 3 different platforms, at $60USD.
And remarkably, they are getting it in BF2. But they are crying like children are being murdered because to make up for that, they are adding an optional way for people to spend money to subsidize the game, for the chance for their guns get more powerful more quickly.
To your point about quality/gameplay - that's why they are convulsing so hard over this - just about everyone agrees that the game is amazing. It's like you are thrown into the middle of a Star Wars film. The maps are HUGE. We only saw a tiny percentage in beta, yet what we saw was so remarkable I would have been like "take my money" just for that.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Yeah, why would anyone care what some fly-by-night publication like Forbes thinks about it, I mean, what credibility do they have versus YouTubers clickbaiting for views to line their own pockets.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
The victims aren't to blame for what happened to them.
However, given the rarefied existence of someone like Gwenyth Paltrow, born into wealth and privilege, who's father was on even-footing with Weinstein in terms of influence within the industry, who's boyfriend at the time was arguably the most powerful actor in Hollywood, who stood on that Oscar stage after the fact and praised the man to all hell, and continued to push the "sweet Uncle Harvey" bullcrap in public for years, now, two decades after the fact, to come out and be praised as some survivor hero - is sickening.
I know in this SJW world we aren't supposed to see any shades to anything, everything is all virtue or evil, no circumstances are supposed to change anything, but...come on. We are not talking about some intern who is all alone in Hollywood and terrified, or some waitress who has to keep her job so her kids don't starve that he tried to pick up and promise stardom to. Those were also his victims, ones that not only someone like Paltrow and the continued silence, but PRAISE of the man for years after, enabled to happen - to those that didn't have her power and privilege, is inexcusable. And the things he did to many of them were a whole lot worse.
She traded her soul for stardom, not survival.
I'm waiting for some brave soul to start digging through the interviews she has given over the past two decades, and start pulling quotes from the hundreds of interviews she has given over the years and what she has said about him, portraying him as some wonderful, brilliant father figure. Long after he had anything to do with her career. I am not holding my breath, though. We aren't supposed to talk about this stuff. Saint or sinner, that's how we have to view everything or social media will find you and destroy you with glee.
Her complicit behavior for two decades doesn't change anything about his guilt, but her actions since certainly speak to her lack of humanity and putting her ambition above all else. "No one would have believed her!" is a straw-man. We may forget that before she was dubbed as the "most hated celebrity in America", she was America's sweetheart.
No one can tell me that if Gwenyth Paltrow, Angelina Jolie, etc. had banded together (and the reports say they all had "girlfriend talks" about this this entire time, they knew these were not isolated incidents) and exposed this, that every woman (and many men) in Hollywood wouldn't have stood behind them, and that he wouldn't have been crucified. For these supposed "humanitarians", it says a lot about their real priorities versus their public facades, as they could have prevented many lives of many women, who will never have their fame, wealth, pedigree, or power, from being ruined.
Quinnmac000
Well-Known Member
In this statement, I'm going to say I disagree with what is being said. Just a few years ago, Megan Fox called out Michael Bay for his sexist and inappropriate behavior behind the scenes and people like Spielberg etc told Michael Bay to fire her and she was then labeled a pariah. (Not saying she was talent less but it was the moment she called Michael Bay Hitler her career went south). Where was all the outrage at Michael Bay? Oh yea there wasn't. It just excuses that Megan Fox got her career because she was hot and she wasn't talented.
A lot of these victims have spoken out which is why it is known yet no one listened to them when they were complaining and it negatively affected them more so than the men. In that case even with prestige and coming from good households, I totally can understand why someone who is doing something they love such as acting would rather stay quiet, warn people quietly and not broadcast it and play the game. Terry Crews also mentioned this as well as a male who was sexually assaulted as well by a male exec. He stated if he had made a big deal, as a black man, it would be have been dismissed and he making a scene and hurt his chances to do something he loves.
Also, in regards to other women standing behind women, even if they banded together, I doubt quite a few would stand behind them. Some people will always have the opinion that if I could deal with it, you can too and you are in a man's world you have to do what you have to do. Women of Hollywood are not a solid group in the least.
Everyone in Hollywood is to blame. Especially the news organizations that new what was going on for years, like the N.Y. Times to NBC news and yes ABC news also.
Quinnmac000
Well-Known Member
You mean like Fox and Fox News with Bryan Singer, O'Riley and Roger Ailes yet nothing. Congress and Dennis Hastert who molested 4 minors yet members of his party in Congress wanted him less charges for him and sent letters to the court because he to them "was a good guy". They legally did what was best to protect them. HR's job is to protect the company which usually means protect the money makers. Weinstein across the board had projects with all studios which makes sense why all news agencies wanted a clear cut case and proof before reporting.
Its not a Hollywood problem, its a people problem. We excuse people's we like bad behavior. We don't excuse people who we don't like bad behavior. We justify and rather say these people should have spoke up yet when they speak up and its get reported its taken serious by a few people or gets taken as fake news, i don't care, they are doing this because their career is over, or for attention. Secondly, with Weinstein and a lot of these people having connections to a lot of businesses. HR's job is to protect the company right. Which usually entails paying off the victims releasing them and making them sign some gag with a closed door discussion to high leadership with a slap on the wrist.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
That's a bad comparison. Michael Bay is a jerk, but his behavior was to give instructions to people like "make her look bigger in that dress" or "walk more sexy to show off your rear in this shot" - still yucky and inappropriate, but nothing whatsoever what is being talked about with Weinstein. And she sure enough kissed and made up with him when she went to do Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So even after her "revelations" - it didn't affect her employment, even with him. No one can help that indeed she is a terrible actress.
We are talking about actual sexual assaults now. As gross as he is, I've never heard anyone say that Bay lured people to hotel rooms with business propositions, only to have his wang out and touch them, like this Weinstein stuff. The accusations against Bay are that he sees women as objects in regards to his filmmaking. Valid, but nowhere near the same ballpark.
Even if you do think the "no one would have believed them!" straw man is true - someone like Paltrow didn't just "say nothing". She actively helped Weinstein's reputation (she called him "Uncle Harvey" and pushed that garbage for years after), as did many others. They not only didn't share the truth, they added to the lie that let him hurt a lot more people who were a whole lot less powerful than they were for several decades to come.
You have to put this in context. Weinstein was a powerful Hollywood producer. He was not God. He was not magic. Some of the people being talked about - Paltrow, Jolie, etc. - they have been ensconced for two decades in their Hollywood mansions with their Oscars and wealth and financial security that would last anyone a lifetime - and every utterance they made in public made headline news. It just doesn't make any sense to apply the "no one would believe them" label on them. Even if he wasn't crucified, like I believe he would have been - he would have certainly been on notice, and still, two decades of comparatively powerless people who were victimized wouldn't have had their lives ruined.
Quinnmac000
Well-Known Member
Yes because god forbid Angelina and Gwen go forth and call out Harvey Weinstein in the 90s where we were blaming victims while Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich were getting away publicly with inappropriate behavior and Angelina was already going through a drug problem. Let's not act like we were so sophisticated and would have done the right thing if people came forward when our history shows that would not have happened.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
So what's the excuse for the last twenty years?
Rose McGowan? I get that, particularly since she likely signed non-disclosure agreements with her settlements. But Paltrow and Jolie in particular have been more famous and more influential than Weinstein for a very long time.
Quinnmac000
Well-Known Member
Look at it. People vs Turner: felony sexual assault yet gets out of jail after 3 months. Casey Affleck publicly shamed for sexual harassment and assault can still gets tons of praise and award recognition. Bill Cosby first accusation was in 2004...its taken 13 years of women saying it before it finally got taken seriously. R. Kelly same thing...already got in trouble for doing inappropriate acts got away with it and now is still doing it. Gary Glitter was charged with child in 1999 got away with it and then with sexual molestation in 2006. Al Gore 2006 was suggested to have made unwanted advances to a massuae which the case then got dismissed. Ben Roethlisberger has two accusations of sexual assault. Our president has similiar accusations and threatened to sue to the women.
In the end for a lot of people justice isn't served. Which in the article put out by the new yorker a lot of actress felt that way and they felt they would just avoid working with Weinstein.
In the end you are putting a lot of people who are already suffering from sexual harrassment and assault and part of the reason why people don't report rapes and assault is the fact court cases get dragged out and they have to face their harasser consistently when most of the time, they just try to move on.
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bclane
Well-Known Member
I understand the frustration that Paltrow and Jolie didn't come forward sooner as it MIGHT have prevented this from continuing so long. But, as they were victims themselves, they will always get a pass from me personally.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
A lot of actresses felt that way. Understandably. But save your "I am the reason" BS - because I'm talking about these two powerful women with voices in particular - they are exceptions.
We are talking two women in particular who are among the biggest stars on the planet and have been for a very long time, yet run around pretending to be "humanitarians", knowing full well that if he did what he did to them, with their families, power, and position - that he must have been doing a lot worse to those not born into those advantages.
In any case, that's all I really have to say about it - Weinstein is a total creep who deserves everything he has coming to him. But there is an awful lot of blood on an awful lot of hands who let him get away with this for a long time. In addition to these two, there are many many more we haven't even touched upon who worked in Hollywood who were not victims but complicit in looking the other way who are going to come down as this goes on.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Are you not criticizing them from a place of hindsight? They had no idea what would happen to their careers if they spoke out. If they had, they may not be household names. Stardom can often be fleeting.
Plus
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Cue (Crickets...)
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Look DC and Hollyweird are the two biggest 'swamps' in the US, In either cross the 'Powers That Be' and your career is OVER and the 'SwampThing' aka Weinstein was definitely one of the 'Powers That Be'.
Now for media covering up the crimes of the 'Powers That Be' well that's simply INEXCUSABLE, Sorry ITS THEIR JOB to expose creeps like this.
It seems that the so called 'Journalists' were more than willing to cover up this type of behavior and criminality as long as the perp belonged to the 'correct' political party. So I blame NYT/NBC/CBS/ABC for covering up for 'one of their own' far more than the actresses who were victims of this creep.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
If they had done so they never would of worked again and would have been sued into oblivion, Are YOU willing to give up your career to expose wrongdoing at the top levels, Frankly I'm not.