A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[ford91exploder]

Ignoring the back and forth, the Disney brand itself still has negative connotations to young adult males. Star Wars and Marvel do not.

This is the most important point of all when a brand has a negative connotation to roughly half of the population it does not bode well for the future health of the company.

But since the beginning of the 'Bad Eisner' days its been Princesses and little else.

 

[bclane]

Agreed. Especially the finish where Herbie comes in first and third imagine what a ride experience that could be!

Buddy Hackett trying to weld the car together ....

Oh my goodness, that would be awesome to have the ride vehicle split in half at the end of the ride! You could also have it do a wheelie, turn on it's side two wheels, spin, launch, go off road...I mean it could be a really fun and comical ride. Why haven't they done this?

 

[JohnD]

The classic Disney male lead is a charming rogue who does the right thing in the end and since Jack Sparrow there have been damn few of them.

Han Solo fits, as does Aladdin but try and name any recent ones yes there was Uncle Stan in Gravity Falls. But in a major animated movie (Crickets...)

Princesses are easy to market so as per usual Disney they follow the path of least resistance.

As to character identification people tend to self identify with the character most like them.

In the star trek series my favorite characters were Scotty, LaForge and Sisko (after one has been in the corporate world for a while one changes) and Sisko was always about the pragmatic vs the ideal.

I think they've been trying with characters like Flynn Ryder and Kristoff. While not necessarily the leads, they can best be described as "Supporting Actor"

 

[ford91exploder]

I think they've been trying with characters like Flynn Ryder and Kristoff. While not necessarily the leads, they can best be described as "Supporting Actor"

Agree but Kristoff and Flynn Ryder can best be described as 'beta males' with all the negative connotations that implies because both frankly are wusses.

 

[ford91exploder]

Oh my goodness, that would be awesome to have the ride vehicle split in half at the end of the ride! You could also have it do a wheelie, turn on it's side two wheels, spin, launch, go off road...I mean it could be a really fun and comical ride. Why haven't they done this?

Like all the other bad stuff at Disney recently the lack of imagination. Disney is creatively bankrupt and has been for a while.

 

[mickeyfan5534]

Agree but Kristoff and Flynn Ryder can best be described as 'beta males' with all the negative connotations that implies because both frankly are wusses.

What movies were you watching? Oh wait, they showed emotion and that means they're weak 'beta males' who are wusses because they don't fit into the stoic, emotionless traditional male role.

Try again.

 

[ford91exploder]

What movies were you watching? Oh wait, they showed emotion and that means they're weak 'beta males' who are wusses because they don't fit into the stoic, emotionless traditional male role.

Try again.

They are wusses because while they cowered in the shadows their animals Sven and Maximus showed more courage and initiative than they did.

Courage is not about not feeling fear or even showing it, its about not letting it paralyze oneself.

 

[bclane]

Like all the other bad stuff at Disney recently the lack of imagination. Disney is creatively bankrupt and has been for a while.

Agree to disagree lol but I do so wish we could have a Herbie ride. It could have so much heart and be thrilling too. A launched Herbie stunt coaster comedy dark ride is what Hollywood Studios needs!

 

[mickeyfan5534]

They are wusses because while they cowered in the shadows their animals Sven and Maximus showed more courage and initiative than they did.

Courage is not about not feeling fear or even showing it, its about not letting it paralyze oneself.

Flynn Rider literally had a sword fight with Maximus and actively disliked the horse. Flynn Rider was the one who saved Rapunzel. Rider was the one who stole the crown and got away with it, starting the plot of the movie. To say Flynn showed more courage and initiative than Maximus shows that you have no understanding of a three dimensional, well developed character and I feel sorry for you because of that.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Agree but Kristoff and Flynn Ryder can best be described as 'beta males' with all the negative connotations that implies because both frankly are wusses.

The thing that Disney does have going for them is an actual cultural shift where "Alpha Male" role models are not necessarily what's sought after. While there's still a demand for the super hero types, there's also less of a cultural emphasis on male dominance.

While there are many recent examples of this, one notable one is in Avengers: Age of Ultron. The Damsel in Distress role was turned upside down where Bruce Banner/The Hulk was the damsel in distress, not Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow.

 

[Quinnmac000]

Agree but Kristoff and Flynn Ryder can best be described as 'beta males' with all the negative connotations that implies because both frankly are wusses.

Are all men alphas in real life? No. So you have a problem with Disney protraying you don't need to be an alpha to get a girl?

Talk about Toxic Masculinity

 

[bclane]

OK, I have something interesting to report. So right after lunch and before sending my students to PE, I asked my 7th grade male students (aged 12-13) to tell me the first thing that comes to their minds when they think about Disney. These are their answers in the order they were called out:

Peter Pan, Frozen, Mickey balloons, magic bands, Mickey & Minnie, Donald Duck, and finally Goofy. I was quite pleased with their answers and clearly they have an awesome teacher as 5 out of 7 of those answers was classic Disney related. Not bad! Ok, well one kid said Looney Tunes but there is always that one kid with the outlier which I threw out for statistical reasons...

 

[Pixieish]

Are all men alphas in real life? No. So you have a problem with Disney protraying you don't need to be an alpha to get a girl?

Talk about Toxic Masculinity

Why the need to push romance at all? There's a formula to the Princess movies and the only times they've strayed are for Brave and Moana (which are my sons' two favorite princess movies, if you could call them favorites at all). So now, the independent, rebellious princess is what they're giving us...how many of those are they going to make?

How about this - DITCH the formulas. LIFE doesn't follow a formula. Life is messy, and hard, and fun, and challenging, and joyous, and sometimes sad.

How about an animated feature starring a girl who isn't yet interested in boys? Or one about a girl who is already married? How about a boy who needs to overcome some sort of traumatic hurdle to accomplish his dream? How about one with a young man who just had his heart broken and is unsure about friendships with females? How about the kid who doesn't think he's good at anything? Oh...here's one...how about the boy who constantly gets picked on? I'd be willing to bet that if they asked any of their staff who have kids what their children's lives are like - Disney could come up with thousands of new story-lines.

There's FAR more to life than romance, and on this point, Disney has been missing the mark.

Big Hero 6 was AMAZING - multiple strong leads of both sexes, no romantic interests, varied characters, and real-life emotional struggle. THAT is what we need more of. Even better? The rebellious kid WANTED to go to "geek school".

Disney needs to get with the program in their animated films.

 

[Andrew C]

Why the need to push romance at all? There's a formula to the Princess movies and the only times they've strayed are for Brave and Moana (which are my sons' two favorite princess movies, if you could call them favorites at all). So now, the independent, rebellious princess is what they're giving us...how many of those are they going to make?

How about this - DITCH the formulas. LIFE doesn't follow a formula. Life is messy, and hard, and fun, and challenging, and joyous, and sometimes sad.

How about an animated feature starring a girl who isn't yet interested in boys? Or one about a girl who is already married? How about a boy who needs to overcome some sort of traumatic hurdle to accomplish his dream? How about one with a young man who just had his heart broken and is unsure about friendships with females? How about the kid who doesn't think he's good at anything? Oh...here's one...how about the boy who constantly gets picked on? I'd be willing to bet that if they asked any of their staff who have kids what their children's lives are like - Disney could come up with thousands of new story-lines.

There's FAR more to life than romance, and on this point, Disney has been missing the mark.

Big Hero 6 was AMAZING - multiple strong leads of both sexes, no romantic interests, varied characters, and real-life emotional struggle. THAT is what we need more of. Even better? The rebellious kid WANTED to go to "geek school".

Disney needs to get with the program in their animated films.

Besides big hero 6...zootopia, wreck it Ralph, inside out, the good Dino (although not a great movie), and soon CoCo...seems some of these recent movies fit what you’re asking for.

 

[Pixieish]

OK, I have something interesting to report. So right after lunch and before sending my students to PE, I asked my 7th grade male students (aged 12-13) to tell me the first thing that comes to their minds when they think about Disney. These are their answers in the order they were called out:

Peter Pan, Frozen, Mickey balloons, magic bands, Mickey & Minnie, Donald Duck, and finally Goofy. I was quite pleased with their answers and clearly they have an awesome teacher as 5 out of 7 of those answers was classic Disney related. Not bad! Ok, well one kid said Looney Tunes but there is always that one kid with the outlier which I threw out for statistical reasons...

My 11-year-old would likely say Mickey, and my 6-year-old would say Disney World. (both boys)

 

[Pixieish]

Besides big hero 6...zootopia, wreck it Ralph, inside out, the good Dino (although not a great movie), and soon CoCo...seems some of these recent movies fit what you’re asking for.

Inside Out was great (would be nice if they did a follow up about the kid she bumped into at the end), and Zootopia was cute - but both female leads (I have boys). Ralph was a good flick, but lacks the depth of Big Hero 6. The Good Dinosaur was meh. Of all of these, my boys watch Big Hero and Ralph the most often. Inside Out was next, Zootopia was hot with them for like a couple of weeks, and Good Dinosaur for MAYBE a week.

But think about it - of all the flicks you mentioned, they either have a female lead, anthropomorphic animals, or main characters that aren't even human OR animals (video game characters and emotions). Think about this, too - how many of the princess movies get these torturously beautiful trailers and months of advertising before the release...with any film that doesn't have a princess, it's like Disney just doesn't put in the same effort 99% of the time. Big Hero was an exception - it was the first animated movie our whole family loves unanimously (granted, we parents love it for different reasons than the kids, but still), it had great music that my son and I can listen to together, and the story had great depth. I really think it's under-rated because it didn't get all the fan-fare the princess movies do. I'm ALSO super glad that there's room for sequels and hope they delve into the stories more (and don't screw it up).

 

[ford91exploder]

Why the need to push romance at all? There's a formula to the Princess movies and the only times they've strayed are for Brave and Moana (which are my sons' two favorite princess movies, if you could call them favorites at all). So now, the independent, rebellious princess is what they're giving us...how many of those are they going to make?

How about this - DITCH the formulas. LIFE doesn't follow a formula. Life is messy, and hard, and fun, and challenging, and joyous, and sometimes sad.

How about an animated feature starring a girl who isn't yet interested in boys? Or one about a girl who is already married? How about a boy who needs to overcome some sort of traumatic hurdle to accomplish his dream? How about one with a young man who just had his heart broken and is unsure about friendships with females? How about the kid who doesn't think he's good at anything? Oh...here's one...how about the boy who constantly gets picked on? I'd be willing to bet that if they asked any of their staff who have kids what their children's lives are like - Disney could come up with thousands of new story-lines.

There's FAR more to life than romance, and on this point, Disney has been missing the mark.

Big Hero 6 was AMAZING - multiple strong leads of both sexes, no romantic interests, varied characters, and real-life emotional struggle. THAT is what we need more of. Even better? The rebellious kid WANTED to go to "geek school".

Disney needs to get with the program in their animated films.

THIS x10,000

 

[MisterPenguin]

Agree but Kristoff and Flynn Ryder can best be described as 'beta males' with all the negative connotations that implies because both frankly are wusses.

Actually, what does this say about the person who uses the term 'beta males' unironically? You're blowing the dog whistle so much that Pluto's ears are bleeding.

 

[NelsonRD]

I love reading a thread, going away for a while, and coming back to the 125th page, it's fun to see what is being discussed.

 

[Andrew C]

But think about it - of all the flicks you mentioned, they either have a female lead, anthropomorphic animals, or main characters that aren't even human OR animals (video game characters and emotions).

animals with human personalities and emotions...therefore a human story.

My response was specific to the things you said you were looking for. My reply was that Disney seems to be meeting some of your requests already.

How about an animated feature starring a girl who isn't yet interested in boys?

Wreck it Ralph

How about a boy who needs to overcome some sort of traumatic hurdle to accomplish his dream?

Good Dinosaur and Zootopia to a certain extent. And I assume Coco.

How about the kid who doesn't think he's good at anything?

Good Dinosaur. Wreck it Ralph to an extent.

Out of the 11 animated features (Pixar and WDA) released recently, starting with Brave....3 have been princess movies. Coco with be number 12...another non-princess movie. If you're talking about Disney still focusing on young girls for the most part, I guess I see that a bit. And having 3 sequels in the last 11 releases could be seen as a problem. But the narrative that they are using the same princess formula for all of their animated movies is not accurate. Maybe I am just not understanding you correctly...