-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
5th Park Opening in Time for WDW's 50th (Jim Hill)
- Thread starter andre85
- Start date
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
Yep. TT's opening was planned to help, but its opening (and then reliability) was a disaster.
I've always tried to find out the real scoop on Copperfield's project. As near as I can tell, his financials were about as realistic as a Bernie Madoff statement and it became clear quickly that Disney would have had to pick up the entire tab if it was going to happen. ... But I think something is missing.
It definitely was, but it was a different era too. Eisner and Wells were on a building spree in FLA and the results (both creatively and financially) were great. There was an incentive to keep spending money to make even more.
By 1998, Disney was in decline and cutting quality was already happening in all sorts of ways (many behind the scenes that people didn't necessarily get). They tried to just get by ... and pumping up the other parks as they were slashing Joe's budget with DAK just didn't register as a priority UNLESS they were cheap (like Buzz at MK and RnRC at Studios).
True. But UNI also got a brand new coaster (which I still haven't ridden) and The Simpsons ride replacing BttF. But there's no doubt Potter is driving people to the resort, many who wouldn't have given it a thought before.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed how many fans believe 'Dark Kingdom' was an actual planned park. To put in perspective, I'm sure there's a concept for a gate for WDW with Marvel characters as the hook -- forgetting the fact that Disney can't use 99% of the characters that have any widespread pop culture resonance. Much like the DK concept. Exists. In some little artwork file deep in the bowels of 1401 Flower.
As to Shangri-La, I know it was Rasulo's pet project and he still is behind it and, apparently, Tom Staggs isn't cold to it. But its likelihood of happening is also pretty unlikely.
Hi all,
everyone seems to always quickly dismiss the Marvel characters coming to Disney parks ( any park, in any way ), I am assuming that this must have been discussed at length back when Disney first purchased Marvel.
I know much of it leads to the fact that Uni. has the rights to some of the characters already...
I was always under the assumption that the plan was to bring them in, in some way to DHS.
I was not around back then, so I was just wondering if anyone knew which marvel characters Uni has the rights to. Is it all of them? ( IE, a bundle type deal whereby Uni got the rights for all marvel IPs, as far as theme parks are concerned )
:veryconfu:veryconfu
Thanks.
everyone seems to always quickly dismiss the Marvel characters coming to Disney parks ( any park, in any way ), I am assuming that this must have been discussed at length back when Disney first purchased Marvel.
I know much of it leads to the fact that Uni. has the rights to some of the characters already...
I was always under the assumption that the plan was to bring them in, in some way to DHS.
I was not around back then, so I was just wondering if anyone knew which marvel characters Uni has the rights to. Is it all of them? ( IE, a bundle type deal whereby Uni got the rights for all marvel IPs, as far as theme parks are concerned )
:veryconfu:veryconfu
Thanks.
Disaddict
New Member
Thanks! :sohappy:
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
Good to see you back. Where you been hiding?
ChrisM
Well-Known Member
Under the avalanche of ellipses and emoticons he spatters on his posts like a thick, curdling paste.
Frankly, I'm astonished he's managed to dig himself out.
...
...
...
...
...
:drevil::shrug:
:xmas::kiss:
:wave:Or, most appropriately: :hurl:
brightlillstar
Member
Thanks for setting the record straight, Lee!
I love armchair imagineering, and I love to hear about projects that did not come through because it seems like they might come back.
Avatarland is not SO SO far from Beastly Kingdom; it follows the same thread, and it will definitely provide a different experience at night. So in that way, looking at rumors and old plans can give you an idea of what is in the realm of possibility for things actually happening.
I agree that it's important to stay down to earth and understand what rumors have some basis and in fact and which are, as Lee put it "fanboy fantasy"..not that there's anything wrong with fanboy fantasy.
I love armchair imagineering, and I love to hear about projects that did not come through because it seems like they might come back.
Avatarland is not SO SO far from Beastly Kingdom; it follows the same thread, and it will definitely provide a different experience at night. So in that way, looking at rumors and old plans can give you an idea of what is in the realm of possibility for things actually happening.
I agree that it's important to stay down to earth and understand what rumors have some basis and in fact and which are, as Lee put it "fanboy fantasy"..not that there's anything wrong with fanboy fantasy.
Kirk88
Active Member
Not sure I'd like to see a 5th gate as much as I'd like to see improvements/expansions to the existing parks. AK is getting the love it deserves with Avatar, we're all aware that MK is going to ROCK in the next year or so, EPCOT needs some attention (refurb more than anything), and HS needs some serious attention. Lucas and Disney need to bite the bullet and do a full blown Star Wars or Lucas themed section at HS. I think HS would also be the right place for a Marvel tie-in. Is a 5th gate needed right now? My answer is no. WDW owns 43 square miles of property, that's more than enough to expand what they have.
The timeline for big attractions at each theme park makes sense for the 50th. With FLE finishing in 2013/2014 and Pandora coming for 2016/2017, doing the original plan of four E-Tickets for each park for the 40th, could certainly be true for the 50th. I think at this point in time a 5th park doesn't make much sense. Perhaps if they add attractions for each park in time for the 50th, every gate will feel more "filled out", consequently allowing a new park within the 10 years after that.
I feel sort of the same way, I really want to see a 5th gate, as I'm always excited what new park ideas they could bring, but I really feel the existing parks need some help too. MK will be pretty great after FLE, but there are still some spots for expansion.
EPCOT needs a little more TLC, some refurbs and a few more attractions would be welcome. AK still has some room for growth after Avatar.
DHS needs a lot of work, mostly with establishing some land identity. They've done this or started it to some extent, eg. Sunset Boulevard, Pixar Place, but they definitely need to establish some more boundaries and add some attractions and really bring back the magic.
pax_65
Well-Known Member
We seem to be entering an era of theme park "regions" that are all themed around a popular film series or types of films: Harry Potter, Avatar, Carsland, Pixar Place (hopefully).
Star Wars has the potential to be the most exciting and popular "region" of them all. It's a great theme with endless attraction possibilities, lots of characters, merchandising, etc. It would be a perfect expansion of DHS.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Wow. Thanks for setting me straight. I'll definitely never post my opinions anymore.
That'd be super.
Lee,
Thanks for always quoting me. I love how you follow my every post. I did at one time hear about Disney buying out Universal's Marvel contract. In fact, I've heard that there was an offer made recently. I'm not holding my breath given Universal's egos. The current buzz is for the Dark Kingdom concept. I give that about an 85% chance. Things change at Disney on a daily basis, so we'll see. Whether it's DK or something even better is fine with me. I look forward to the announcement - and your reaction to it, lol.
Where is this buzz? Silliness.
Disaddict
New Member
Glad I could be of help.
I doubt Lucas will ever do that. It would be awesome if he did though. But for a person that he flat out said that his Star Wars will end with him and not be allowed to continue with anyone, not even his 3 adopted daughters, I cannot see him going that far with the franchise. It's a shame too.
Crap, there I go giving an opinion again. I guess I just can't stop myself.
IWant2GoNow
Well-Known Member
:snore:
Huh? Wha? Another 5th park thread?
*skims through*
:snore:
*mumblemumbleAvatarexpansiongrumbleFLEmumbleCarslandgrumblemumbleSDLmumblegrumbleNextGenmumbleAoAgrumblegrumblenowaywiththismuchgoingontheywouldthinktoputa5thparkinwhentheressomuchexpansionroomineveryparkgrumblemumble*
Huh? Wha? Another 5th park thread?*skims through*
:snore:
*mumblemumbleAvatarexpansiongrumbleFLEmumbleCarslandgrumblemumbleSDLmumblegrumbleNextGenmumbleAoAgrumblegrumblenowaywiththismuchgoingontheywouldthinktoputa5thparkinwhentheressomuchexpansionroomineveryparkgrumblemumble*
Dark Kingdom is buzzed about on different Disney sites - Disboards - for one. It includes the lands and some attraction names. Sure, I've dismissed Internet rumors before and was wrong - like the early plans for Fantasyland - but I believe there's more to this. Disney seems to be gauging public reaction for a villain park. I think they're afraid they may offend Disney moms and goody goodies with the dark tone. As for Night Kingdom ,(Jungle Trek, or whatever name they used for it), I hope that more intelligent minds prevail and they scrap the whole thing. It seems like it would be The Disney Institute part 2. I don't think that people will warm to the idea of a niche park for the rich in this economic environment.
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
Dark Kingdom is buzzed about on different Disney sites - Disboards - for one. It includes the lands and some attraction names. Sure, I've dismissed Internet rumors before and was wrong - like the early plans for Fantasyland - but I believe there's more to this. Disney seems to be gauging public reaction for a villain park. I think they're afraid they may offend Disney moms and goody goodies with the dark tone. As for Night Kingdom ,(Jungle Trek, or whatever name they used for it), I hope that more intelligent minds prevail and they scrap the whole thing. It seems like it would be The Disney Institute part 2. I don't think that people will warm to the idea of a niche park for the rich in this economic environment.
Niche park for the rich and/or those who are willing to splurge on vacation after saving.
I just wanted to add that last part because so many people make the connection between deluxe resort offerings and pay-to-play add-ons or Night Kingdom type ideas as specifically for the rich which couldn't be farther from the truth.
I don't know about the rest of ya'll but I'm by no means rich. But my fiance and I love to splurge the heck out of our vacations because we live so frugally during our day-to-day lives. Which is why we tend to stay in Deluxe resorts when we visit WDW and do fancy meals, etc. I'm all for exclusive or limited access offerings if it is something that appeals to me, and I don't have any problem with Disney offering something boutique that I'm not interested in either. While I don't think Night Kingdom will be resurrected, some of the offerings that were tossed around did sound pretty interesting.
Lee
Adventurer
WDWFigment
Well-Known Member
There was a time when I would give Jim Hill the benefit of the doubt, or at least tolerate his writing style because the content was at least amusing. That time passed long ago, and his credibility has been shot for a long time. Other readers have pointed to the likely reasons he wrote this article, so there's no point going there.
Everything else Disney is doing--from X-Pass (including multiple coming NextGen queues along with 'memory-targeted' product development, among data mining and other things) to the currently announced expansion totally flies in the face of this rumor. These are huge CapEx projects inconsistent with the impetus behind a fifth gate that, more importantly, won't be done until around 2017. So between 2017 and 2021 Disney will start building a fifth gate? Right...
This doesn't even take into account economics and guest habits that have gradually been changing over the past several years making the idea of a fifth gate even less viable. There's no sign that these habits are going to reverse themselves anytime soon.
So unless Jim Hill can now accurately predict the future of the economy AND vacationing habits on top of moves by Disney, he doesn't currently *know* that this is going to happen.
Everything else Disney is doing--from X-Pass (including multiple coming NextGen queues along with 'memory-targeted' product development, among data mining and other things) to the currently announced expansion totally flies in the face of this rumor. These are huge CapEx projects inconsistent with the impetus behind a fifth gate that, more importantly, won't be done until around 2017. So between 2017 and 2021 Disney will start building a fifth gate? Right...
This doesn't even take into account economics and guest habits that have gradually been changing over the past several years making the idea of a fifth gate even less viable. There's no sign that these habits are going to reverse themselves anytime soon.
So unless Jim Hill can now accurately predict the future of the economy AND vacationing habits on top of moves by Disney, he doesn't currently *know* that this is going to happen.