Tokyo's Beauty & the Beast... Better than Ratatouille?

britain

Well-Known Member
Fine? They brushed over a pivotal part of the story. The one part that had the chance to do something amazing and it got paid lip service.

Yes, so does Pinocchio's Daring Journey (no brave sacrifice), so does Mr. Toad (no winning back of the deed to Toad Hall), so does Alice in Wonderland (no... well, frankly the Alice movie is so darn episodic, there is no pivotal part to that story).
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Yes, so does Pinocchio's Daring Journey (no brave sacrifice), so does Mr. Toad (no winning back of the deed to Toad Hall), so does Alice in Wonderland (no... well, frankly the Alice movie is so darn episodic, there is no pivotal part to that story).
It could have made a mediocre attraction better by offering some variety. BatB suffers from Mine Train. Or Mermaid. Or Navi River. There’s a pattern here....

I’m glad they chose Rat over this. Shocking I know.
 

britain

Well-Known Member
It could have made a mediocre attraction better by offering some variety. BatB suffers from Mine Train. Or Mermaid. Or Navi River. There’s a pattern here....

I’m glad they chose Rat over this. Shocking I know.

I'm just glad they picked Rat over this because BatB just screams MAGIC KINGDOM. And it doesn't feel very French, frankly. It feels like Broadway. I don't care if it technically takes place in France and the original tale comes from French culture. You could say it takes place in Germany and very little would have to change.

(Caveat: Lumiere does provide a nice Chevalire show. But not worth it compared to the toast to Paris that Rat is.)
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
It could have made a mediocre attraction better by offering some variety. BatB suffers from Mine Train. Or Mermaid. Or Navi River. There’s a pattern here....

I’m glad they chose Rat over this. Shocking I know.

While Mine Train, Navi River, BatB, and Rat all suffer from some obvious flaws, I don't think Mermaid belongs in the conversation with any of them. It's a few steps below in basically every aspect of a ride -- story is the one possible exception, but Mermaid doesn't exactly tell much of a story either. There's no climax because Ursula is never defeated; Eric and Ariel kiss and then they're happily married (yes I'm aware there's a silhouette of her in giant form but it's pretty easily missed and certainly doesn't receive the attention it deserves -- a bit similar to BatB in that way).

I will say I've completely changed my mind about BatB and Rat with regards to EPCOT. Although I still think BatB looks like a better attraction, and also still think Rat has no business going into the France pavilion, it's definitely a better fit than BatB. BatB is roughly on par with Frozen as far as having a connection to the real country -- probably even worse, actually, because Frozen is at least obviously influenced by Norway in certain aspects.

EDIT: Posted this before reading @britain's post above. He's right -- the animated BatB could be set in any number of European countries with only superficial changes needed (if even that). And the fairy tale itself isn't quintessentially French.
 
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HongKongFooy

Well-Known Member
Retelling the story is stupid.........why not bring something fresh with an open story and if using IP to tap into familiarity then use it as a backdrop only.
Attractions designed to retell is for those who lack imagination--- the lazy.......go watch the movie if you want the same exact storyline.
Disney works best with the the open narrative: original pirates, ToT, Mansion, Everest ect
 

Giss Neric

Well-Known Member
Fine? They brushed over a pivotal part of the story. The one part that had the chance to do something amazing and it got paid lip service.

I rode Rat a few times 3 days ago and would still rank it higher.
Rat's 4D effects makes it very fun like the food scents, the heat effect under the oven, the water spray, and the gush of wind when the broom sweeps towards you.
 

FettFan

Well-Known Member
Yes, so does Pinocchio's Daring Journey (no brave sacrifice), so does Mr. Toad (no winning back of the deed to Toad Hall), so does Alice in Wonderland (no... well, frankly the Alice movie is so darn episodic, there is no pivotal part to that story).
To be fair....Mr. Toad actually had you dying in a car crash and going to HELL.

Getting the deed to Toad Hall back kind of pales in comparison!
 
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UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Rat's 4D effects makes it very fun like the food scents, the heat effect under the oven, the water spray, and the gush of wind when the broom sweeps towards you.

This is exactly why it's not the best idea to judge rides entirely on a video. I've been saying BatB looks like a much better attraction to Rat to me based on videos, but that I wouldn't be able to judge fairly or for sure until I'd actually been on them.

That sounds like a big plus to Rat for me. I don't think that would be enough to push it over BatB because it relies heavily elements I don't really enjoy (screens and especially 3D screens), but that goes a long way towards mitigating the reliance on those 3D screens because it helps bring back some sense of a physical space.
 
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doctornick

Well-Known Member
Close to every time there is a comparison of what Tokyo gets to what USA parks get I feel like Charlie Brown at Halloween:

"I got a rock"

The two American parks just opened Rise of the Resistance less than a year ago...

And what exactly has Tokyo been getting in recent years that would shame the US parks? The last few attractions were clones of Soarin' and Toy Story Mania I believe. Tokyo has suffered as much from stagnation the last decade as the domestic parks. Yes, they do a wonderful job with entertainment and general park upkeep, but I'm not sure there's much to crow about in terms of recent attractions.
When was the last time they opened a truly outstanding unique attraction? Probably have to go back to the opening of TDS in 2001.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The two American parks just opened Rise of the Resistance less than a year ago...

And what exactly has Tokyo been getting in recent years that would shame the US parks? The last few attractions were clones of Soarin' and Toy Story Mania I believe. Tokyo has suffered as much from stagnation the last decade as the domestic parks. Yes, they do a wonderful job with entertainment and general park upkeep, but I'm not sure there's much to crow about in terms of recent attractions.
When was the last time they opened a truly outstanding unique attraction? Probably have to go back to the opening of TDS in 2001.

Soaring: Fantastic Flight seems like a gigantic miss/waste to me. They built this really cool building and queue and then the ride itself seems completely unconnected to everything else because it's just the same video from the Disneyland and WDW versions of Soarin'.

They should have created a whole new video of fantasy worlds or something like that, more along the lines of Flight of Passage, to really tie it in to the theme. Or even something more history based. The actual ride video doesn't seem to fit anything else about the experience.

In general, though, while BatB may not be truly outstanding, it and the surrounding village dwarfs anything WDW has added in that realm. It's far more impressive than the WDW Fantasyland type rides from this decade (7DMT, Little Mermaid, and Frozen Ever After). It's the kind of thing that should have been built for New Fantasyland (although ideally with some of the flaws ironed out) instead of what was actually built.
 
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yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Fine? They brushed over a pivotal part of the story. The one part that had the chance to do something amazing and it got paid lip service.

I rode Rat a few times 3 days ago and would still rank it higher.
Yes, so does Pinocchio's Daring Journey (no brave sacrifice), so does Mr. Toad (no winning back of the deed to Toad Hall), so does Alice in Wonderland (no... well, frankly the Alice movie is so darn episodic, there is no pivotal part to that story).
The difference is that Pinocchio, Mr. Toad, and Alice exclude elements of their Movies in the name of making a better Attraction. Beauty and the Beast excludes elements of the movie in the name of streamlining the story for a medium that offers only 8 minutes to tell it.

A whole 30 seconds of the ride time goes by from the button of Be Our Guest to Belle's first line in Something There. Truly nothing happens in that 30 seconds aside from you moving from one room to the next. In terms of pacing that's a pretty outrageous sin when you've only got 8 minutes (actually less, but I'm being kind).

In a more perfect world, the attraction would have focused less on replaying the pivotal beats of Belle and Beast's love story and focused more on giving you a tour of the Enchanted Castle, happily punctuated with some familiar aspirational moments. Instead of offering the moments from the movie that would make for the most exciting and dynamic attraction, they've focused on the moments that propel the narrative forward. Heads up, Disney; These are not automatically the same moments.

There's a reason the best Fantasyland Dark Rides often play with the timeline or focus of events relative to their movies - because the movies don't translate directly to the experiential medium.

"Something There" is the biggest sin here, if I had to pick one. It has no business being anything more than a footnote in an experiential medium. It's a lovely song, but watching Belle and Beast stand still and sing it is not an aspirational moment. There's a reason it's Voiceover in the movie - it's all internal, and that freed the animators up to provide more interesting business to watch as the song played! Better would have been to glide past some leaded windows to see Belle and Beast outside throwing Snowballs at each other while an instrumental of the song plays. Plug that in for 10 of the 30 seconds it takes to get from Scene 1 to Scene 2 and you already have the pacing moving at a better clip. We don't even need to hear the lyrics, lovely though they are.

Even the scene with Belle and Beast standing at the Balcony looking at the stars is awkward - I get that they're trying to touch on the story beat of them dancing together the first time without spoiling the moment they've planned in the Ballroom later, but that is THE pivotal moment, so it's hard to tell that story if you have to move that beat. Count that as another reason to skip the narrative focus altogether. And instead of that great moment we get another completely inert vignette. It's as dramatic as a post-it that says "at this point they're in love".

The most physically active, dramatic, and exciting moments of the movie that also take place inside the castle really are these: Entering the Castle, First Encounter with the Beast, Be Our Guest, Visiting The West Wing, The Ballroom Dance, The Mob Song, The Transformation, and the Finale. The attraction hits on some of these between the Preshow and the Ride, but too much focus is given to moments where nothing is actually happening. EVERY moment that's meant to have your focus should have something happening, especially since this movie has so many great moments.

The more I see of the Queue the more I worry they may have overfilled it with good locations from the Castle. I'm sure it's exciting to visit those spaces on foot, but a meal that falters on the main course isn't made up for by a great appetizer.
 
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UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The more I see of the Queue the more I worry they may have overfilled it with good locations from the Castle. I'm sure it's exciting to visit those spaces on foot, but a meal that falters on the main course isn't made up for by a great appetizer.

This is the second biggest flaw in Forbidden Journey at Universal (the biggest flaw is the ridiculously jerky ride that causes horrendous motion sickness, but that's a personal problem). Hogwarts is the the most iconic and most frequent (by far) setting of that story, and it's just used as a queue (and still skips some of the biggest settings within the castle). The ride is good enough to make up for that for most people (again, not me), but it was a big misstep that I'm sure they wish they could have back.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
This is the second biggest flaw in Forbidden Journey at Universal (the biggest flaw is the ridiculously jerky ride that causes horrendous motion sickness, but that's a personal problem). Hogwarts is the the most iconic and most frequent (by far) setting of that story, and it's just used as a queue (and still skips some of the biggest settings within the castle). The ride is good enough to make up for that for most people (again, not me), but it was a big misstep that I'm sure they wish they could have back.
I sort of almost wish they'd tried building Diagon Alley first - there would have been less money to do it, presumably, so Diagon probably wouldn't be quite the stunning land it turned out to be, but surely the success of that would have given them the freedom to go whole-hog on Hogwarts itself.

Personally, I do like Forbidden Journey for what it is, and find it to be a great ride, but I have a hard time believing there isn't a bigger, better, more ambitious Hogwarts projects locked away somewhere in Universal creative's filing cabinets. There's SOOO much potential to that space, you could make it into an entire attraction complex. But since it came with the first expansion it's locked into being solely the attraction they did when they were fighting for their lives. How do you go back now and build a Great Hall Restaurant, or a House Common Room Hotel, or a 3rd Floor Corridor Walk Through, or, or . . .

You're right that Hogwarts is the keystone of that entire world, and Universal seems to have backed themselves into the corner of getting only one ride out of it. And a fabulous queue that still fails to seize the full potential of that location.

My hopes were that the different parks would seize the opportunity to build in a way that could expand on their Hogwarts offerings, but they built basically the same thing in Hollywood and Japan that we got in Orlando. Meanwhile Diagon Alley still stands head and shoulders above Hogsmeade as a themed land - they had more money and more freedom, and it shows.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I sort of almost wish they'd tried building Diagon Alley first - there would have been less money to do it, presumably, so Diagon probably wouldn't be quite the stunning land it turned out to be, but surely the success of that would have given them the freedom to go whole-hog on Hogwarts itself.

Personally, I do like Forbidden Journey for what it is, and find it to be a great ride, but I have a hard time believing there isn't a bigger, better, more ambitious Hogwarts projects locked away somewhere in Universal creative's filing cabinets. There's SOOO much potential to that space, you could make it into an entire attraction complex. But since it came with the first expansion it's locked into being solely the attraction they did when they were fighting for their lives. How do you go back now and build a Great Hall Restaurant, or a House Common Room Hotel, or a 3rd Floor Corridor Walk Through, or, or . . .

You're right that Hogwarts is the keystone of that entire world, and Universal seems to have backed themselves into the corner of getting only one ride out of it. And a fabulous queue that still fails to seize the full potential of that location.

My hopes were that the different parks would seize the opportunity to build in a way that could expand on their Hogwarts offerings, but they built basically the same thing in Hollywood and Japan that we got in Orlando. Meanwhile Diagon Alley still stands head and shoulders above Hogsmeade as a themed land - they had more money and more freedom, and it shows.

Indeed. Hogsmeade feels like an afterthought once you've been to Diagon Alley. Diagon Alley is easily the most impressive theme park land I've been to; nothing else comes close.

What Universal should do is just build Hogwarts as their third HP land at Epic Universe (if that even happens). Yes, it's the queue and facade for Forbidden Journey, but who cares. Just ignore that and go all in. Build a Great Hall restaurant as you said (I've always thought it would be a perfect setting for a restaurant). Let people explore all of the classrooms with tons of new places to use those magic wands they purchased. Have a much bigger greenhouse and an animatronic Whomping Willow (that you can't actually get close to, but which could sway around). There are so many things they could do.

I also think the Forbidden Journey queue is way too dark, as an aside. But this is getting way off topic now so I won't post anything else about HP.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Indeed. Hogsmeade feels like an afterthought once you've been to Diagon Alley. Diagon Alley is easily the most impressive theme park land I've been to; nothing else comes close.

What Universal should do is just build Hogwarts as their third HP land at Epic Universe (if that even happens). Yes, it's the queue and facade for Forbidden Journey, but who cares. Just ignore that and go all in. Build a Great Hall restaurant as you said (I've always thought it would be a perfect setting for a restaurant). Let people explore all of the classrooms with tons of new places to use those magic wands they purchased. Have a much bigger greenhouse and an animatronic Whomping Willow (that you can't actually get close to, but which could sway around). There are so many things they could do.

I also think the Forbidden Journey queue is way too dark, as an aside. But this is getting way off topic now so I won't post anything else about HP.
It's funny you mention the darkness of the Forbidden Journey queue - I was just thinking about how BATB's queue seems tragically over-lit. It's so bright that in many spaces the Castle appears to look as it does post-transformation rather than pre. I know people need to be able to navigate without tripping, but you'd think there's some sort of in-between. Light the pathways and let some of the space around you be more dark and moody.

You'd forget this place is meant to be somewhat spooky until you get to the Preshow. And then it brightens up again as you head to your vehicles.
 

gerarar

Premium Member
This is probably the best POV I’ve seen thus far (minus the crying baby lol). It’s one of the last cars to leave the Beast transformation scene, so you get to see a lot of the transforming details around you better, including the portrait and rose in the back. Plus I didn’t even know there was a Belle AA in this scene next to the Beast.

Also features the 3 versus of Something There without any stoppages. I do see where it drags on a bit. They need to add more activity to the room and it’ll might do it.

 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
I was going to suggest some projections for all that wall space, but then I remembered that projections are bad.... but... the ride is full of AAs, which everyone wants in a dark ride... so... well...


;)
 

Magicart87

No Refunds!
Premium Member
This is probably the best POV I’ve seen thus far (minus the crying baby lol). It’s one of the last cars to leave the Beast transformation scene, so you get to see a lot of the transforming details around you better, including the portrait and rose in the back. Plus I didn’t even know there was a Belle AA in this scene next to the Beast.

Also features the 3 versus of Something There without any stoppages. I do see where it drags on a bit. They need to add more activity to the room and it’ll might do it.


I agree this is the best video thus far. Shame though that the attraction still lags for 2:30 mins where we see the same scene on repeat, again and again followed by a mostly static set, static ancillary characters (some of which the vehicle passes in close proximity) and a pivotal scene reduced to projected shadows. But I digress.

I'm perhaps not the best guest for these type of attractions. I find all of LPS attractions lacking, less so with RotR where it "fits" the theme better. Give me a bus bar with painted flats and I'll be much happier. Spinning inside a warehouse looking at a sprinkling of set pieces and few AAs is not ideal. To Rat's credit however, at least there the frantic storyline fits the ride vehicle and the action is front and center and ever-changing.
 
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