Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[danlb_2000]

Maybe Disney can slow down on the deep cleaning now:

"Deep Cleaning Isn’t a Victimless Crime​

The CDC has finally said what scientists have been screaming for months: The coronavirus is overwhelmingly spread through the air, not via surfaces."

Deep Cleaning Isn’t a Victimless Crime

The CDC has finally said what scientists have been screaming for months: The coronavirus is overwhelmingly spread through the air, not via surfaces.

www.theatlantic.com

I've always thought that. Given that covid is a respiratory disease similar to the flu, it can't be spread by touching so easily. Instead of wasting time and money cleaning surfaces excessively, it's better to focus on ventilation and filtering air.

But the conclusion from the CDC is: "In most situations, cleaning surfaces using soap or detergent, and not disinfecting, is enough to reduce risk. Disinfection is recommended in indoor community settings where there has been a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19 within the last 24 hours. "

So in a environment like Disney where thousands of people are touching surfaces daily, how do you know if COVID infected person has been there or not?

 

[DisneyCane]

CDC Identifies Small Group of Covid-19 Infections Among Fully Vaccinated Patients

Breakthrough cases represent 0.008% of the fully vaccinated population and are in line with expectations because the approved vaccines in the U.S. are not 100% effective.

www.wsj.com

I don’t know if anyone has posted this yet. CDC report from today says that 0.008% of fully vaccinated people have been infected with COVID. Their takeaway from this is that the number is a reminder that vaccinated people are at risk and should continue to take precautions. It’s worrying to consider what number will be acceptable to the CDC in order to loosen restrictions on vaccinated people.

That is compared against approximately 0.025% or so of unvaccinated people that test positive EVERY DAY and the breakthrough infections were over months.

 

[disneygeek90]

Then it goes on to say we have robust at 6 and could be fine at a year or longer... we don't know. But yeah let's report this now when we still worry about getting people with their first round. I hate the news sometimes....

“We need to be careful about that six-month number. The study only went out as far as six months. We know for sure it’s effective for six months, but highly likely that it will be effective for considerably longer period of time,” he said during an appearance on The Mehdi Hasan Show.

“So the good news is that it’s at least six months. Hopefully a lot more. But in direct answer to your question, if it turns out a year or a year and a half, we very well may need to get booster shots to keep up the level of protection,” he added

Why wouldn't they continue to track beyond the 6 months?

 

[danlb_2000]

Why wouldn't they continue to track beyond the 6 months?

They do continue to track, but this is one of the points where the reported results. A similar thing happened at 3 months and everyone panicked then to when they said it lasted "at least 3 month".

 

[disneygeek90]

They do continue to track, but this is one of the points where the reported results. A similar thing happened at 3 months and everyone panicked then to when they said it lasted "at least 3 month".

Ahh okay okay. The way I read the post was that they stopped tracking. Makes sense, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see it extend several more months.

 

[GoofGoof]

Ahh okay okay. The way I read the post was that they stopped tracking. Makes sense, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see it extend several more months.

Yep, I think they way to look at it is until they release a study that says the vaccines were no longer effective after X number of months we assume they last forever . Since most of us are 6 months plus after the trial participants we should know in advance when their vaccines stop working.

 

[Flugell]

As I stated earlier, bearing in mind I am speaking from the U.K. so we don’t have to worry about constitutional rights, I would welcome proof of vaccination to enter anywhere! Shops, restaurants, gyms, hotels, hairdressers, WDW etc. If that was introduced then I would be able to return to society with a degree of confidence. This is not the case at present. This is despite the fact my husband and I have been vaccinated (second shot scheduled.) My husband is on immunosuppressant drugs and has been told to avoid anyone who is not vaccinated at all costs. So we have done the right thing but still cannot take advantage. Surely it is the people who CHOOSE to remain unvaccinated who should be unable to enter normality rather than us? I would also have no problem with negative tests in the previous 48 hours for people who are medically unable to be vaccinated, who choose not to or not yet scheduled due to age. If those requirements were in place there would be no need for mandated masks or social distancing.
Perhaps this comes across as selfish, maybe it is (!) but people who are not prepared to be vaccinated are, in my humble opinion, holding back the opportunity to returning to normal for everyone else!

 

[GaBoy]

As I stated earlier, bearing in mind I am speaking from the U.K. so we don’t have to worry about constitutional rights, I would welcome proof of vaccination to enter anywhere! Shops, restaurants, gyms, hotels, hairdressers, WDW etc. If that was introduced then I would be able to return to society with a degree of confidence. This is not the case at present. This is despite the fact my husband and I have been vaccinated (second shot scheduled.) My husband is on immunosuppressant drugs and has been told to avoid anyone who is not vaccinated at all costs. So we have done the right thing but still cannot take advantage. Surely it is the people who CHOOSE to remain unvaccinated who should be unable to enter normality rather than us? I would also have no problem with negative tests in the previous 48 hours for people who are medically unable to be vaccinated, who choose not to or not yet scheduled due to age. If those requirements were in place there would be no need for mandated masks or social distancing.
Perhaps this comes across as selfish, maybe it is (!) but people who are not prepared to be vaccinated are, in my humble opinion, holding back the opportunity to returning to normal for everyone else!

Here! Here!

 

[GoofGoof]

As I stated earlier, bearing in mind I am speaking from the U.K. so we don’t have to worry about constitutional rights, I would welcome proof of vaccination to enter anywhere! Shops, restaurants, gyms, hotels, hairdressers, WDW etc. If that was introduced then I would be able to return to society with a degree of confidence. This is not the case at present. This is despite the fact my husband and I have been vaccinated (second shot scheduled.) My husband is on immunosuppressant drugs and has been told to avoid anyone who is not vaccinated at all costs. So we have done the right thing but still cannot take advantage. Surely it is the people who CHOOSE to remain unvaccinated who should be unable to enter normality rather than us? I would also have no problem with negative tests in the previous 48 hours for people who are medically unable to be vaccinated, who choose not to or not yet scheduled due to age. If those requirements were in place there would be no need for mandated masks or social distancing.
Perhaps this comes across as selfish, maybe it is (!) but people who are not prepared to be vaccinated are, in my humble opinion, holding back the opportunity to returning to normal for everyone else!

I agree. The fastest way to a return to normal is get as many people as possible vaccinated as fast as possible. I would have no issue with a vaccine passport personally, I just know it won’t happen in the US. The minority who won’t get the vaccine will delay our return to normal, but hopefully they are a small enough number that it’s only a short delay

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree. The fastest way to a return to normal is get as many people as possible vaccinated as fast as possible. I would have no issue with a vaccine passport personally, I just know it won’t happen in the US. The minority who won’t get the vaccine will delay our return to normal, but hopefully they are a small enough number that it’s only a short delay

It may not be a country wide vaccine passport but there will be places that will require proof of being vaccinated. The Buffalo Bills have already said for next season proof of vaccine will be required to attend games. That's in the fall which is well after most should be vaccinated.

 

[mmascari]

But they almost definitely will A. Not die B. Not be hospitalized and C. Not have a super severe case.

Sorry but idk how I’m supposed to maintain concern for literal years when I have a .008% of getting covid post vaccine and a probable .000000001 chance of dying from it.

Months, not years. If we're still at high levels of community spread for years, we've done something very wrong. The faster the vaccinated percentage goes up, the shorter those months will be.

that is major problem in my opinion because no one knows where the line is going to be drawn and those of us that are vaccinated are going to have to be restricted of normal life because of others who don’t get vaccinated.

take Disney as an example - most of us would love to see it back to normal...but when will it be? There will always be a risk so when does life become normal again or does it not

Define normal? Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily normal, nationally? Do you have a smaller or larger number in mind?

There will always be a risk. At some point we have to get back to normal. People are getting tired of being held back because of those who won’t get vaccinated and all the doom and gloom we see in the news (like people that get the shot may get covid so we should just masks and hide forever?). There’s a risk of riding a Disney bus to the park or riding a roller coaster etc. as well but I’ll take the risk and it’s my decision.

I'm honestly asking. What's your number for normal?

Not some "at some point we have to", but a real metric. In your opinion, if you're making the call. Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily the new normal? Is the new normal higher or lower than that?

I'm not wondering what any of the science people are saying. They'll provide all the advice in the world about what actions will cause the numbers to go up or down. It's a policy decision then about weighing those actions and the change on the numbers against the other "not COVID" things those actions will impact. If we want to talk about when we should stop different actions, assuming we're not fighting about if the actions actually work, we should at least decide if the goal even matters.

So, what's "normal"? What's the level of daily cases and daily deaths nationally when we're all just fine with the number?


(It's not 0. Not even close to 0, well above that. But, it's not what those values were today either.)

 

[correcaminos]

Why wouldn't they continue to track beyond the 6 months?

They are. I'm back in Sept for my 1 year post vaccine draw. Then up to a year after that unless something changes and we test boosters (if we really do test them)

 

[disneygeek90]

Months, not years. If we're still at high levels of community spread for years, we've done something very wrong. The faster the vaccinated percentage goes up, the shorter those months will be.


Define normal? Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily normal, nationally? Do you have a smaller or larger number in mind?

I'm honestly asking. What's your number for normal?

Not some "at some point we have to", but a real metric. In your opinion, if you're making the call. Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily the new normal? Is the new normal higher or lower than that?

I'm not wondering what any of the science people are saying. They'll provide all the advice in the world about what actions will cause the numbers to go up or down. It's a policy decision then about weighing those actions and the change on the numbers against the other "not COVID" things those actions will impact. If we want to talk about when we should stop different actions, assuming we're not fighting about if the actions actually work, we should at least decide if the goal even matters.

So, what's "normal"? What's the level of daily cases and daily deaths nationally when we're all just fine with the number?


(It's not 0. Not even close to 0, well above that. But, it's not what those values were today either.)

Nah, I’ve accepted months. Months isn’t what I’m worried about. What I’m worried about is vaccines full available and restrictions still being pushed because there’s a “chance.”

 

[GoofGoof]

Months, not years. If we're still at high levels of community spread for years, we've done something very wrong. The faster the vaccinated percentage goes up, the shorter those months will be.


Define normal? Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily normal, nationally? Do you have a smaller or larger number in mind?

I'm honestly asking. What's your number for normal?

Not some "at some point we have to", but a real metric. In your opinion, if you're making the call. Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily the new normal? Is the new normal higher or lower than that?

I'm not wondering what any of the science people are saying. They'll provide all the advice in the world about what actions will cause the numbers to go up or down. It's a policy decision then about weighing those actions and the change on the numbers against the other "not COVID" things those actions will impact. If we want to talk about when we should stop different actions, assuming we're not fighting about if the actions actually work, we should at least decide if the goal even matters.

So, what's "normal"? What's the level of daily cases and daily deaths nationally when we're all just fine with the number?


(It's not 0. Not even close to 0, well above that. But, it's not what those values were today either.)

I’d say somewhere under 10,000 new positives a day nationwide and under 100 daily deaths would be good targets for a return to normal. That works out to to only around 1% of the population infected over a full year and 36,500 annual deaths. With the number of people vaccinated, especially the elderly and higher risk we should really be able to get deaths much lower than that, but I’d say that’s the max allowable for no restrictions. I think we can start dialing back restrictions prior to reaching that level, but not a full return to normal.

 

[mmascari]

Nah, I’ve accepted months. Months isn’t what I’m worried about. What I’m worried about is vaccines full available and restrictions still being pushed because there’s a “chance.”

If community spread is low, the "chance" of a breakthrough case will be infinitesimally small. Once community spread is low, the chance of an unvaccinated person being infected will be small too. The chance of a variant emerging that's vaccine resistant drops significantly. Huge number of vaccinated people and low community spread is basically unicorns and rainbows.

Which is why it's a measure of community spread and not an individual's vaccination status. Vaccinate enough, and we all win. Just have it available but fail to actually get it into people, and we all lose.

Do all those hesitant people want to be losers? This is a situation where the participation award IS for winners.

 

[mmascari]

I’d say somewhere under 10,000 new positives a day nationwide and under 100 daily deaths would be good targets for a return to normal. That works out to to only around 1% of the population infected over a full year and 36,500 annual deaths. With the number of people vaccinated, especially the elderly and higher risk we should really be able to get deaths much lower than that, but I’d say that’s the max allowable for no restrictions. I think we can start dialing back restrictions prior to reaching that level, but not a full return to normal.

I hope you're right. I think we'll get back to normal with numbers higher than that. I would prefer your target though.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I don’t see an issue. We just aren’t there yet. No use worrying about a “what if” that hasn’t happened yet. If the government says we can never return to normal then the government will be replaced. We all get a vote, even in Georgia...just bring your own bottle of water

I’m vaccinated so I don’t need to wear a mask, but I understand why they aren’t just removing all public restrictions yet. If we reach the point where the vast majority of people are vaccinated and community spread is way down I’m confident the restrictions will be gone. For Disney all of the CMs haven‘t had a chance to be vaccinated yet. If they just removed all the Covid rules including masks to appeal to the vaccinated in society they would be putting some of their own workers at risk. Once everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated then that’s not an issue anymore. Those workers will be deciding to take their own risk. It’s a month or 2 before we can officially say anyone who wanted the vaccine had their shot. IMHO that is when the majority opinion is society as a whole will turn in favor of removing restrictions, including distancing and masks at WDW. Right now the majority still agrees with keeping restrictions but that will change soon.

You should continue to wear a mask even after vaccination. At this time all that is known is the vaccine should prevent you from developing symptoms, but there is still an unknown if you might still be infectious to others.

 

[Chi84]

You should continue to wear a mask even after vaccination. At this time all that is known is the vaccine should prevent you from developing symptoms, but there is still an unknown if you might still be infectious to others.

According to the CDC, 0.008% of fully vaccinated people have been infected with COVID. Only 7% of that 0.008% were hospitalized. Almost 30% were asymptomatic. Seems vaccinated people are pretty safe.

 

[Bullseye1967]

You should continue to wear a mask even after vaccination. At this time all that is known is the vaccine should prevent you from developing symptoms, but there is still an unknown if you might still be infectious to others.

There have been multiple studies that show there is little to very low risk of a fully vaccinated individual spreading COVID. The reason vaccinated people are still masking is because it is impossible to know who has and has not be vaccinated.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Define normal? Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily normal, nationally? Do you have a smaller or larger number in mind?

I'm honestly asking. What's your number for normal?

Not some "at some point we have to", but a real metric. In your opinion, if you're making the call. Is 75,000 cases 800 deaths daily the new normal? Is the new normal higher or lower than that?

I'm not wondering what any of the science people are saying. They'll provide all the advice in the world about what actions will cause the numbers to go up or down. It's a policy decision then about weighing those actions and the change on the numbers against the other "not COVID" things those actions will impact. If we want to talk about when we should stop different actions, assuming we're not fighting about if the actions actually work, we should at least decide if the goal even matters.

So, what's "normal"? What's the level of daily cases and daily deaths nationally when we're all just fine with the number?


(It's not 0. Not even close to 0, well above that. But, it's not what those values were today either.)

I’m not the one to ask that question to. Dr fauci and the CDC is and my concern is they can’t give us an answer so what does that mean and how long do they continue restrictions

I’ve said from the beginning of all this there has to be a line and something has to give somewhere at some point because the virus will likely always be out there and there will always be some risk involved so when will we leave the decisions up to the individuals to decide on when to do what rather than the government to tell us