Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[correcaminos]

We're about the national average in vaccinations. I think the common theory is that the vaccinations have been what's keeping Ohio and the country as a whole out of another January-type spike.

It could be spring break, it could be weather, it could be just an overall fatigue with restrictions and people deciding to take their chances. I don't think anyone has a great handle on it. (Frankly, if we had a great handle on it, we probably would have wiped this out a year ago.)

Spring break absolutely drove up cases. We all knew it would. Fatigue is real too. Being in Ohio I'm not seeing it as bad off as you are though but I was completely expecting the bump. So far that's all it is. No spike like MI but last I knew we had variants around here for a while now.

 

[Heppenheimer]

One important point to know about what's happening during the pause in the Johnson & Johnson roll-out. With the reported rate of adverse reactions, I doubt this means game-over for the vaccine. But the FDA is likely evaluating each of these 6 reported cases of thrombosis to see if there are any shared comorbidities, or if there was anything else going on in each case that might better explain what happened, like an active cancer. This may help risk-stratify those who should perhaps consider an alternative vaccine.

 

[Tom P.]

FWIW, Israel saw a small but measurable bump in cases too as they were ramping up vaccines and then saw case numbers just fall off a cliff and crater a few weeks later as they got vaccine levels up higher. We've been tracking pretty steadily on pace with Israel, except a little bit behind them. I am still optimistic that we are going to see the same thing here -- a small bump now followed by a steep dropoff before too long.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

You must not be on twitter or Facebook. The hysteria is already there, egged on by the tin-foil hat crowd.

Very true - and many of the same people proclaiming the vaccines unsafe due to these rare potential side effects are also the ones who downplayed the virus as being no big deal because it's "99.99% survivable" (in their minds, anyway). Yet, if the pace (6 incidents out of more than 6 million doses) maintained until we had as many people inject with the J&J vaccine as have had COVID-19 in the US, that would only equal 32 instances of blood clots (assuming all 6 were actually caused by the vaccine, which hasn't yet been determined). Somehow, their logic is declaring that 32 people with blood clots out of 32 million doses > 576,645 deaths out of 32 million infected (going off of https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ as of the time of this post). My guess is that most of the "COVID is no big deal but the vaccines are dangerous" crowd didn't exactly excel at math or science when they were in school.

 

[seascape]

Numbers are out - there were 64 new reported deaths.

View attachment 548356View attachment 548357View attachment 548358View attachment 548359

That is a horrible number. I said yesterday I didn't believe yesterday's number but today's number added to yesterday's compared to last week is 11% more than the same 2 days last week. Very disappointing. That is 43,516 cases in the last 7 days for an average of 6,216.57 or 29 per 100,000 a day. Bad, horrible, or whatever other name you want to call it.

 

[HarperRose]

Very true - and many of the same people proclaiming the vaccines unsafe due to these rare potential side effects are also the ones who downplayed the virus as being no big deal because it's "99.99% survivable" (in their minds, anyway). Yet, if the pace (6 incidents out of more than 6 million doses) maintained until we had as many people inject with the J&J vaccine as have had COVID-19 in the US, that would only equal 32 instances of blood clots (assuming all 6 were actually caused by the vaccine, which hasn't yet been determined). Somehow, their logic is declaring that 32 people with blood clots out of 32 million doses > 576,645 deaths out of 32 million infected (going off of https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ as of the time of this post). My guess is that most of the "COVID is no big deal but the vaccines are dangerous" crowd didn't exactly excel at math or science when they were in school.

Bingo.

 

[Mark52479]

That is a horrible number. I said yesterday I didn't believe yesterday's number but today's number added to yesterday's compared to last week is 11% more than the same 2 days last week. Very disappointing. That is 43,516 cases in the last 7 days for an average of 6,216.57 or 29 per 100,000 a day. Bad, horrible, or whatever other name you want to call it.

With yesterday's low number u knew a big number was coming today.

The lab reporting is HORRIBLE here in Florida.

Well the reporting in general too is horrible.

 

[sullyinMT]

You must not be on twitter or Facebook. The hysteria is already there, egged on by the tin-foil hat crowd.

I've cleaned up my Facebook recently, and I don't trust that Twitter has a grasp on sentiment overall on anything. That said, sadly I don't doubt for a second you're right.

 

[Jrb1979]

You must not be on twitter or Facebook. The hysteria is already there, egged on by the tin-foil hat crowd.

The worst part for me is that many of tin foil hat crowd were people I used to call friends.

 

[seabreezept813]

The type of clot they are referencing apparently happens to 5 in 1 million people per year already. Women make up a 3:1 ratio for these types.

I almost died from blood clots in college. After all the testing, the cause was deemed birth control. I was told the number of women who get clots from birth control is much more common and larger than expected so I would assume this is more likely the cause than the vaccine. If only we could give this much hype to the fact that birth control can cause clots as I certainly wasn’t educated about those risks.

 

[Patcheslee]

I almost died from blood clots in college. After all the testing, the cause was deemed birth control. I was told the number of women who get clots from birth control is much more common and larger than expected so I would assume this is more likely the cause than the vaccine. If only we could give this much hype to the fact that birth control can cause clots as I certainly wasn’t educated about those risks.

Doc refused me BC when I tried to get it at 35 because of higher risk of clots due to the hormones.
The reverse at 14 for regulation I wasn't informed of risk and prescribed it even though I smoked.

 

[DisneyCane]

That is a horrible number. I said yesterday I didn't believe yesterday's number but today's number added to yesterday's compared to last week is 11% more than the same 2 days last week. Very disappointing. That is 43,516 cases in the last 7 days for an average of 6,216.57 or 29 per 100,000 a day. Bad, horrible, or whatever other name you want to call it.

The median case age for yesterday was 35. With the vast majority of 65+ vaccinated and more and more becoming fully vaccinated every day, the daily "numbers" don't really matter that much any more.

Would it be better if they were lower? Sure. However, the people catching COVID at this point have elected to take the risk of getting it with their chosen activities and every day they are less and less likely to cause a chain of events that leads to a 75 year old dying.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Disney Experience]

My personal experience I related a few pages back makes it hard for me to be completely biased anymore about this. I’m not jumping to conclusions that there’s a greater conspiracy, but based on my conversations with front line health personnel in the last week I think it may be possible there’s more to the J&J story then just this issue.

The nurse that helped me after my reaction told my wife flat out “do NOT get this vaccine, I’ll book you an appointment for one of the others but I’ve seen too many people have issues with this.” My doctor (who was vaccinated early on with Moderna) said that if he had a choice and needed a vaccine now he would not choose J&J based on the prevalence of people that are calling him with reports of reactions like myself, along with the overall efficacy numbers. And finally, the pharmacist that gave my wife a Moderna shot this morning said that “almost everyone” she gave J&J too over the weekend had issues and that they seemed a lot worse and more common then Moderna.

That’s not Facebook, that’s front line medical professionals speaking in clinical settings. A lot of the issues they are seeing are maybe not related to this clotting issue, and fall under the range of ‘safe’ immediate reactions to a shot, but I don’t think we necessarily have the pieces put together yet and that’s part of why a pause at the least is a good idea. The last two weeks were the first weeks J&J had been available here on a larger scale, so it was a quite notable, recent, and dramatic change in the clinical experience many of these professionals had been observing from their prior experience with Moderna or Pfizer. Maybe some of that sentiment is included in the CDC / FDA decision, maybe it’s totally not an issue... but I can assure you it is real.

Phase 1 trial of Pfizer ( very small number of subjects) had as one of its objectives to determine what dosing they should use for Phase 2/3.

They had 10,30, and 100. The 100 was a single shot while the others were the two shot sequence.

They moved forward with two shot 30, because they did not like the side effects seen in the single shot 100. So Pfizer too could have moved forward with a one shot covid vaccine. I am glad they and Moderna did not. I think efficacy increases and side effect risks decrease with that choice. Even if it takes more work to get people fully vaccinated.

J&J is now in trials with a two shot version of their shot.

 

[Figgy1]

The median case age for yesterday was 35. With the vast majority of 65+ vaccinated and more and more becoming fully vaccinated every day, the daily "numbers" don't really matter that much any more.

Would it be better if they were lower? Sure. However, the people catching COVID at this point have elected to take the risk of getting it with their chosen activities and every day they are less and less likely to cause a chain of events that leads to a 75 year old dying.

There are many people still waiting and have to go to work everyday. It's not a choice for many

 

[correcaminos]

The median case age for yesterday was 35. With the vast majority of 65+ vaccinated and more and more becoming fully vaccinated every day, the daily "numbers" don't really matter that much any more.

Would it be better if they were lower? Sure. However, the people catching COVID at this point have elected to take the risk of getting it with their chosen activities and every day they are less and less likely to cause a chain of events that leads to a 75 year old dying.

Not all areas have had it open long enough for younger people though. I have friends sick with covid in another state. Granted I think they might have been to flippant, but still their state was not open to them until just before they got sick.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Just over 20% of Canada's population has now received at least one vaccine dose.

Progress is [finally] being made on this side of the border. Still not without its struggles and delays, but it's happening.

 

[GoofGoof]

Looks like “game-on“ for the show down over vaccine passports in FL. If the order holds up in court it will likely cost the FL economy billions if cruise lines go elsewhere with the possibility that some don’t come back. From the attached article:

SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5.

The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from Port Everglades in December.

DeSantis’ press office on Monday asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

“The Governor’s Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business,” press secretary Cody McCloud said by email. “Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations.”

SilverSea’s announcement follows Norwegian Cruise Line’s statement last week that it would require full vaccinations if the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention allows it to resume sailing in July. The cruise line is scheduled to run trips out of Port Miami beginning in September.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings also operates Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceana Cruises.

SilverSea’s requirement will take effect when the company launches its first cruise since the pandemic on June 5 — a seven-day Galapagos Islands voyage from Ecuador. No voyages from U.S. ports are scheduled until Aug. 29, a 26-day trip to Japan from Anchorage, Alaska.

Four sailings are scheduled from Port Everglades in December aboard the ships Silver Whisper, Silver Dawn and Silver Spirit. SilverSea is a luxury cruise line, with fares that run into thousands of dollars.

Whether DeSantis actually has authority to bar cruise lines from requiring vaccinations could become the focus of a legal battle involving the cruise lines and the CDC.

The Coast Guard and the CDC have asserted control over pandemic-related cruise line activity at the port, but most decisions have been made by a “unified command” that includes the state, federal and county governments, working with the cruise lines, said Ellen Kennedy, spokeswoman for Port Everglades.

Asked about DeSantis’ assertion, Port Director Jonathan Daniels said by email: “We are working with the cruise lines and through all local, state and federal regulations and guidelines to effect a safe restart to cruising.”

Another cruise line will require vaccines; DeSantis says no

SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5. The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from...

www.yahoo.com

 

[disneygeek90]

Looks like “game-on“ for the show down over vaccine passports in FL. If the order holds up in court it will likely cost the FL economy billions if cruise lines go elsewhere with the possibility that some don’t come back. From the attached article:

SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5.

The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from Port Everglades in December.

DeSantis’ press office on Monday asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

“The Governor’s Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business,” press secretary Cody McCloud said by email. “Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations.”

SilverSea’s announcement follows Norwegian Cruise Line’s statement last week that it would require full vaccinations if the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention allows it to resume sailing in July. The cruise line is scheduled to run trips out of Port Miami beginning in September.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings also operates Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceana Cruises.

SilverSea’s requirement will take effect when the company launches its first cruise since the pandemic on June 5 — a seven-day Galapagos Islands voyage from Ecuador. No voyages from U.S. ports are scheduled until Aug. 29, a 26-day trip to Japan from Anchorage, Alaska.

Four sailings are scheduled from Port Everglades in December aboard the ships Silver Whisper, Silver Dawn and Silver Spirit. SilverSea is a luxury cruise line, with fares that run into thousands of dollars.

Whether DeSantis actually has authority to bar cruise lines from requiring vaccinations could become the focus of a legal battle involving the cruise lines and the CDC.

The Coast Guard and the CDC have asserted control over pandemic-related cruise line activity at the port, but most decisions have been made by a “unified command” that includes the state, federal and county governments, working with the cruise lines, said Ellen Kennedy, spokeswoman for Port Everglades.

Asked about DeSantis’ assertion, Port Director Jonathan Daniels said by email: “We are working with the cruise lines and through all local, state and federal regulations and guidelines to effect a safe restart to cruising.”

Another cruise line will require vaccines; DeSantis says no

SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5. The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from...

www.yahoo.com

This has to be a balk from Desantis, right? Surely he wouldn’t fight it when it comes down to billions.

 

[Disney Experience]

A paper in NEJM that describes why Astrazeneca Covid vaccine may be causing Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104840?query=featured_home

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104882?query=RP

and an article summarizing some of what is in the two papers:

Why would a Covid vaccine cause rare blood clots? Researchers have found clues

Does AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine cause blood clots in rare instances? Does J&J's? Researchers start to see some clues.

www.statnews.com

May apply to the JnJ vaccine too. Time will tell.

Still a very rare event.