Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Disney Experience]

A paper in NEJM that describes why Astrazeneca Covid vaccine may be causing Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104840?query=featured_home

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104882?query=RP

and an article summarizing some of what is in the two papers:

Why would a Covid vaccine cause rare blood clots? Researchers have found clues

Does AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine cause blood clots in rare instances? Does J&J's? Researchers start to see some clues.

www.statnews.com

May apply to the JnJ vaccine too. Time will tell.

Still a very rare event.

 

[GoofGoof]

This has to be a balk from Desantis, right? Surely he wouldn’t fight it when it comes down to billions.

Yep, he will back down for sure if it comes to that. He’s hoping to pressure the CDC and feds to allow them to sail without any safety protocols but that won’t happen after what went down last Spring on cruise ships.

 

[sullyinMT]

This has to be a balk from Desantis, right? Surely he wouldn’t fight it when it comes down to billions.

How it would play out in courts or at the negotiating table is anyone’s best guess, but I would find it beautiful in a way if the suit against the CDC produced meaningful guidance for fully vaccinated cruises.

Cruises could, then, theoretically, start from NY/NJ, SC, AL, TX, CA, and LA all before they do in FL. Seattle is in a different position with AK sailings so I’ll leave them out of my list. I’d be willing to bet, if that happened, port authorities in all parts of Florida would sue the state.

Also, I can’t be alone in those willing to travel on land or domestic air but there’s no chance I’d be on an unvaccinated ship if given the choice between the two (vaccinated vs unvaccinated).

 

[GoofGoof]

How it would play out in courts or at the negotiating table is anyone’s best guess, but I would find it beautiful in a way if the suit against the CDC produced meaningful guidance for fully vaccinated cruises.

Cruises could, then, theoretically, start from NY/NJ, SC, AL, TX, CA, and LA all before they do in FL. Seattle is in a different position with AK sailings so I’ll leave them out of my list. I’d be willing to bet, if that happened, port authorities in all parts of Florida would sue the state.

Also, I can’t be alone in those willing to travel on land or domestic air but there’s no chance I’d be on an unvaccinated ship if given the choice between the two (vaccinated vs unvaccinated).

...port authorities and hotels and bars and restaurants and airlines and taxi/Uber drivers, etc...

 

[Mark52479]

Like the article says DeSantis has no authority of the cruise lines because they operate under foreign registered companies and most all ships fly a foreign flag.

So his office saying the EO will apply to cruising is just political bs.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

AKA the cruise companies know what's good for business

 

[Bullseye1967]

Looks like “game-on“ for the show down over vaccine passports in FL. If the order holds up in court it will likely cost the FL economy billions if cruise lines go elsewhere with the possibility that some don’t come back. From the attached article:

SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5.

The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from Port Everglades in December.

DeSantis’ press office on Monday asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

“The Governor’s Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business,” press secretary Cody McCloud said by email. “Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations.”

SilverSea’s announcement follows Norwegian Cruise Line’s statement last week that it would require full vaccinations if the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention allows it to resume sailing in July. The cruise line is scheduled to run trips out of Port Miami beginning in September.

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings also operates Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceana Cruises.

SilverSea’s requirement will take effect when the company launches its first cruise since the pandemic on June 5 — a seven-day Galapagos Islands voyage from Ecuador. No voyages from U.S. ports are scheduled until Aug. 29, a 26-day trip to Japan from Anchorage, Alaska.

Four sailings are scheduled from Port Everglades in December aboard the ships Silver Whisper, Silver Dawn and Silver Spirit. SilverSea is a luxury cruise line, with fares that run into thousands of dollars.

Whether DeSantis actually has authority to bar cruise lines from requiring vaccinations could become the focus of a legal battle involving the cruise lines and the CDC.

The Coast Guard and the CDC have asserted control over pandemic-related cruise line activity at the port, but most decisions have been made by a “unified command” that includes the state, federal and county governments, working with the cruise lines, said Ellen Kennedy, spokeswoman for Port Everglades.

Asked about DeSantis’ assertion, Port Director Jonathan Daniels said by email: “We are working with the cruise lines and through all local, state and federal regulations and guidelines to effect a safe restart to cruising.”

Another cruise line will require vaccines; DeSantis says no

SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5. The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from...

www.yahoo.com

The article I saw said the first sailings out of Florida were in December. The first one I see on their website is December 2nd. It may be a moot point by then.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

The article I saw said the first sailings out of Florida were in December. The first one I see on their website is December 2nd. It may be a moot point by then.

I think the opposite. By then theres no reason not to get a vaccine.

 

[JoeCamel]

How it would play out in courts or at the negotiating table is anyone’s best guess, but I would find it beautiful in a way if the suit against the CDC produced meaningful guidance for fully vaccinated cruises.

Cruises could, then, theoretically, start from NY/NJ, SC, AL, TX, CA, and LA all before they do in FL. Seattle is in a different position with AK sailings so I’ll leave them out of my list. I’d be willing to bet, if that happened, port authorities in all parts of Florida would sue the state.

Also, I can’t be alone in those willing to travel on land or domestic air but there’s no chance I’d be on an unvaccinated ship if given the choice between the two (vaccinated vs unvaccinated).

By the time it played out in the courts the emergency will be over - I hope

 

[Bullseye1967]

I think the opposite. By then theres no reason not to get a vaccine.

That's what I meant.

 

[DisneyCane]

By the time it played out in the courts the emergency will be over - I hope

I expect that the emergency will be ended in FL once there is enough vaccine for all who want it. I'd expect an order that ends all local emergencies as well which would end all County measures and restrictions.

 

[DisneyCane]

There are many people still waiting and have to go to work everyday. It's not a choice for many

The vast majority who contract COVID are doing things like gathering indoors with several people, not just going to work.

Not all areas have had it open long enough for younger people though. I have friends sick with covid in another state. Granted I think they might have been to flippant, but still their state was not open to them until just before they got sick.

The young people who haven't had the opportunity to be vaccinated and are contracting COVID are most likely doing things by choice like going to indoor parties and things like that. Some are getting infected by other members of their households who do those things. My point was that the vast majority getting infected at this point are doing something where they know the risk and are making the choice to take it.

That's why I say "the numbers" don't matter much anymore. The argument about putting vulnerable lives at risk by your actions gets weaker every day as more and more of the vulnerable are vaccinated.

 

[DisneyCane]

Like the article says DeSantis has no authority of the cruise lines because they operate under foreign registered companies and most all ships fly a foreign flag.

So his office saying the EO will apply to cruising is just political bs.

It's probably not that simple. When the ship is in State waters, I assume that Florida law applies. I'd guess that the EO could apply until the ship exists Florida jurisdiction. I think that was the concept with the gambling cruises that would go offshore a few miles before land based casinos were allowed in FL.

I'm not sure how a port is governed with respect to Federal vs. State law. A State can't pass a law that says you don't need photo ID to board an aircraft but apparently they can require you to wear a mask in an airport.

 

[DisneyCane]

Regarding vaccine acceptance by age, I calculated how many were vaccinated in FL for each age group between Monday's report and Tuesday's report. Here is the breakdown:

16-24 21,555
25-34 26,036
35-44 29,160
45-54 30,279
55-64 31,554
65-74 12,109
75-84 5,612
85+ 1,750

The 65+ group makes sense to be significantly lower per day because 80% have already been vaccinated. 35-64 seem to have roughly equivalent demand. Under 35 the daily rate is noticeably lower. This is the demographic that needs to be "marketed to" the most.

 

[Patcheslee]

Regarding vaccine acceptance by age, I calculated how many were vaccinated in FL for each age group between Monday's report and Tuesday's report. Here is the breakdown:

16-24 21,555
25-34 26,036
35-44 29,160
45-54 30,279
55-64 31,554
65-74 12,109
75-84 5,612
85+ 1,750

The 65+ group makes sense to be significantly lower per day because 80% have already been vaccinated. 35-64 seem to have roughly equivalent demand. Under 35 the daily rate is noticeably lower. This is the demographic that needs to be "marketed to" the most.

How far out are appointments able to be booked? The 35 and under have only been eligible for 9 days, it may be too early to tell what the rate is for those groups.

 

[GoofGoof]

The article I saw said the first sailings out of Florida were in December. The first one I see on their website is December 2nd. It may be a moot point by then.

The big takeaway is the Governor’s office saying that the order applies to cruise ports in FL. That cruise line is relatively small and mostly irrelevant itself. Other much larger cruise lines, very critical to the FL cruise industry, already said they plan to require proof of vaccination and it’s likely the rest will follow. Most are planning to ramp up operations this Summer. Whether the Governor has the legal authority to do this is not even really relevant. Cruise lines that are already struggling greatly economically don’t want to spend millions on lawsuits, they will just move to other ports if the Governor doesn’t fold.

 

[GoofGoof]

By the time it played out in the courts the emergency will be over - I hope

That would be the fear for the local economy. If cruise lines go elsewhere to avoid lengthy lawsuits that’s a big blow to the local economy.

 

[correcaminos]

The vast majority who contract COVID are doing things like gathering indoors with several people, not just going to work.

The young people who haven't had the opportunity to be vaccinated and are contracting COVID are most likely doing things by choice like going to indoor parties and things like that. Some are getting infected by other members of their households who do those things. My point was that the vast majority getting infected at this point are doing something where they know the risk and are making the choice to take it.

That's why I say "the numbers" don't matter much anymore. The argument about putting vulnerable lives at risk by your actions gets weaker every day as more and more of the vulnerable are vaccinated.

Just stop please. Painting with broad brushes doesn't help. My friends are in their 50s and hardly the partying type. Again not all groups are eligible yet. Are there younger ones misbehaving? Sure but at this point it stands... not all are eligible for vaccines yet. People have to work and go out for groceries. The family I know the 50 something matriarch got it first, not the adult kids who don't even live with them. Let's not be judgmental yet or trying to downplay how contagious this is yet.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's probably not that simple. When the ship is in State waters, I assume that Florida law applies. I'd guess that the EO could apply until the ship exists Florida jurisdiction. I think that was the concept with the gambling cruises that would go offshore a few miles before land based casinos were allowed in FL.

I'm not sure how a port is governed with respect to Federal vs. State law. A State can't pass a law that says you don't need photo ID to board an aircraft but apparently they can require you to wear a mask in an airport.

The article I posted described the ports as a combo of Federal and State/Local authority. As long as a ship is in port in FL it has to comply with FL state law, when in International waters that‘s not an issue. The flag a ship flies doesn‘t make it exempt from following local laws when in port. That being said, the Governor’s order is likely illegal overall for any business so it would be illegal for cruise ports too.

 

[JoeCamel]

The article I posted described the ports as a combo of Federal and State/Local authority. As long as a ship is in port in FL it has to comply with FL state law, when in International waters that‘s not an issue. The flag a ship flies doesn‘t make it exempt from following local laws when in port. That being said, the Governor’s order is likely illegal overall for any business so it would be illegal for cruise ports too.

A good example is the gambling ships have to be three miles offshore before play can begin